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What was it like watching mid-late 2000's Peyton Manning?


LieutenantGains

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Manning was predictably unpredictable. It was obvious that he ran the show. He studied tape from the moment he was drafted, and was pure class.

He was given 3 different plays on every down, and HE picked which one would work best while at the line of scrimmage. Perspective on that - most QB's get 1 play, maybe 2 - most rookies get about 1/3 or 1/2 of the playbook of what a seasoned QB gets, and Manning's playbook was thick! Thick x 3, on every play. That will kill about any defense.

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56 minutes ago, tonyto36 said:

No it isn't one collegiate play.  It was one comedic youtube clip.  The proof is in the ten thousand snaps he took and had bad footwork.

No that is just wrong.  You NEVER want that because it promotes throwing off balance which is exactly what you don't want.

I don't see your point in the clip?  He's using a resistance band to stay warm.  It's just like how you see runners with a trainer behind them, and them leaning forward at an extreme angle to compensate.  It's not that the trainer is teaching them to run at a 45 degree angle with their head down.  It's a warmup.

Yes, the QB is never going to have a completely perfect opportunity to throw, but that doesn't mean you should try to throw it in bad positions or set yourself up to. By that logic, you're trying to argue that the QB should hold the ball as long as possible before they get hit and throw it.  That's just nonsense.  YOU WANT TO THROW IT WITH BALANCE AND A FULL STEP THROUGH.

It's typical for most QBs.  But we're talking about all time greats.  Brady did.

“So you’re telling me that Koppen just coasted?” Giardi jokes. “Because he had Brady and Manning just calling everything out.”

“I’m raising my hand to interject,” Koppen says. “One, Peyton Manning did not make the mike calls in the run game. I made the mike calls in the run game for Peyton. The quarterback here [in New England] does everything."

-10 year vet, probowl center, Dan Koppen, played with Peyton 1 year in Denver

The bottom line seems to be for whatever reason you're trying to argue that throwing off balance is a good thing.  Yes it happens, yes good QBs need to be able to do it.  But it's not something you TRY to make happen and that is what happens when you dance in the pocket like he did.   The more you move or lift your feet up, the more opportunities for your timing to be off when you try to release the ball.  

 

I'll recommend two books for you to read. The first, The View From The O-line by Howard Mudd, who was Manning's OL coach for 9 years ('98 - '09). Second one is, The Quarterback Whisperer by Bruce Arians, who not only scouted Manning but was also his QB coach for his first 3 years ('98 - '00).

I'll go on record in saying I trust those coaches over your quick quips. Especially in concerns to Mannings footwork, who Arians helped improve and once called it "flawless", and is on record of saying OC Tom Moore would send in 3 plays for Manning on every snap.

BTW, that excerpt from Koppen in The Pat's Pulpit did nothing to disprove what I said about Manning ID'ing the Mike for protection calls (which don't exist in the run game).

 

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As most have said he was very cerebral. Made a ton of adjustments before every single snap and honestly half of them were fake callouts to confuse the D. The thing about him that impressed me was his throwing mechanics, it was machine like and smooth. He had the size, arm strength, accuracy, leadership, extremely smart, good attitude, clutch (outside the playoffs) and could crush any passing record. Truly the perfect none running QB. Just from the eye test he looked more impressive than Brady with how he commanded his offense which is really saying something because Brady has an absurd command of his offense.

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The thing that stood out to me, that left me in awe of peyton was his accuracy.  HE never had a pretty ball, but SO MANY of his TD passes were caught in the end zone.  He never had a very good YAC receiver on the Colts.  The timing and accuracy of everything the Colts did was mind bogglingly awesome.

And just to add into the discussion...I do indeed think Peyton has happy feet, and that it probably was his biggest knock.  

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I'm going to focus on the negatives here.

Manning was robotic. Painfully so with only slight improvement from 2006 on when he actually started to work on throwing on the move some. Which wasn't a pretty sight, but did improve his game some. He was a fanatical worker and a perfectionist who did his best work when everything was going right around him on offense. The work ethic is undeniable and is one of the reasons coaches gush over him and gave him such a long leash. But, frankly, people have always made far too much of his ability to process information. There are QB's with just as much control over their offense, but they didn't make a big to do of shouting out things at the line the way Peyton did. The entire thing was more for show.

The offense he ran was always fairly simple. Variations of a limited number of actual plays. That worked well enough in the regular season, but come January when the competition improved and teams were willing to throw the kitchen sink at his offenses, they consistently under performed. And Peyton, for all the talk on his ability to read defenses, was often times confused and made poor decisions with the football when it mattered most. The Patriots got the better of him with presnap movement and disguising. All QB's can be fooled, but Manning really struggled badly with this. It happened again in the 2005 playoffs against the Steelers. 3-4 fronts were better at exploiting this problem. Manning would later admit that he had to learn to ignore a lot of their presnap movement in the front 7 and just throw around it.

Early Peyton Manning was greedy. The 2006 Colts won it all despite Manning sucking for 2.5 playoff games. The only real positive thing to say is that he was willing to finally take a backseat to the running game and take the check downs defenses left him on a more consistent basis. It's easy enough to provide examples of this. Manning abandoned the run game in the playoff losses to the Patriots despite having James. I'm a Steelers fan, obviously, so I'll always remember that when the Steelers were up 14-0, the Colts went on a long, clock consuming drive driven by the ground game with some short passes that ended on the goal line and a FG. James was eating the Steelers defense up. Not a surprise as their focus was on stopping the pass. Yet, James barely touched the ball again the rest of the game and Manning would continue to throw down field when he had guys open underneath. He did exactly what the Steelers wanted him to do, and then threw his OL under the bus after.

After the Bettis fumble, Manning's greed came out in full. On back to back plays he insisted on throwing deep to Reggie Wayne while he had wide open receivers streaking across the middle of the field on short crossing patterns. Both passes fell incomplete, and then Vanderjagt missed the 46 yard field goal. Probably should have made it, but it's not like Manning didn't have chances to make the job easier if not completely ice the game himself.

I mean, for a guy who supposedly always put the ball in the right spot, these are pretty glaring breakdowns at the worst possible times. And it never really went away. I can still remember the Chargers giving him repeated chances to win it. I think he had the ball in the redzone twice (set-up in that position) in one sequence. I recall him missing wide open receivers in the endzone on back-to-back plays as he forced the ball into coverage.

Manning was a bit like a computer thrown off by the smallest glitches. He ran a relatively simple, precision based timing offense that was like a rang up points like a ping ball machine in the regular season but which failed over and over in the playoffs. There's a reason that probably no other QB in NFL history has ever lost so many games in which his team was the strong favorite. More one-and-dones than probably any QB in history outside Marino. And it wasn't his defenses letting him down. They were typically low-scoring affairs where his offenses were just mediocre to bad.

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I've been watching football since probably 1996 (7 years old) but there are two things that made me a hardcore follower of football. 

- 2000-2002 Oakland Raiders

- 2003-2006 Peyton Manning

I remember watching Manning as a young teenager just glued to my seat. He was like a general, computer, and almost a scientist in a way he read defenses pre snap, made adjustments, and tore them apart. Has to be the smartest QB to ever play the game. A great great high IQ football player. Even with a arm throwing ducks, he still capped a 55 TD season. 

Wish he would of been better in the playoffs but not all his fault. 

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On 9/29/2017 at 2:31 AM, Iamcanadian said:

Certainly one of the greatest regular season QB's of all time, but a huge disappointment come playoff time. He and Marino were very similar in that regard but he did win one SB and lucked into a 2nd, so it turned out all right for his career.

Dan Marino was handicapped by his defense, and didn't have a back like Edgerrin James in the backfield. It's revealing Miami hasn't won the AFC since he played. In Manning's defense, I don't think a Trevor Sieman-type of QB beats the Steelers in the opening round of the 2015 playoffs. Don't think Manning has to apologize for helping Denver win the SB in his final season.

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