Miles Sanders vs Derrius Guice

[OkeyDoke21]

I'll take the guy that plays.

[EaglesPeteC]

7 hours ago, Tugboat said:

If healthy, i pretty easily take Guice.  Whether that's a thing that will materialize?  Questionable i guess.

 

But when healthy, i still think Guice is the better back.  He's got a little bit more of pretty much everything to offer.  Like most backs though...still needs the quality OLine to run behind, or nothing great is going to happen.

Besides knees 

[HTTRDynasty]

8 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Agreed his receiving skills were actually quite good, just underutilized... similar to Ray Rice’s receiving underutilization coming out of Rutgers.

Tbqh I don’t think any of it matters though as I see Bryce Love as a Priest Holmes level threat... and will take that backfield by storm. Guice is going to end up as a highly talented backup very soon IMO. Healthy or not (for Guice) I think Bryce Love is going to eventually be a top 5 RB in this league. Though in this upcoming season I’ll predict he has a Phillip Lindsay type of impact.

Love's current situation is just so murky.  Most of the beat reporters say there is little confidence among the team that he is fully recovered... still.  I'd be pleasantly surprised if he can prove everyone wrong and show he's ready to go for training camp and/or the regular season.

Guice is my RB1 for the Redskins, but I could also see Antonio Gibson having Kamara-lite or McCaffery-lite success in Scott Turner's system.  I think AP will be phased out of the offense by midseason if Guice stays healthy.  Bryce Love is the wildcard.

 

[EagleBlueDon]

58 minutes ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

Yeah even Guice being this 'monster' seems extremely reliant on looking back on his college production. 

He's barely been on the field in the NFL and when he has, outside of one monster game against one of the worst run defenses in NFL history, he's been ordinary. Sanders did more down the stretch in 2019 than Guice has ever shown in the league, this isn't close at all. 

Oh it's definitely a college thing. And if it's a college thing with him, it's definitely one with Bryce Love, who I've seen mentioned in this thread as a back they'd take over Sanders, as well as a future top 5 overall back. I can't believe people are actually posting this stuff.

[Tugboat]

5 hours ago, EaglesPeteC said:

Besides knees 

I doubt those are important.

[diamondbull424]

12 hours ago, EagleBlueDon said:

Oh it's definitely a college thing. And if it's a college thing with him, it's definitely one with Bryce Love, who I've seen mentioned in this thread as a back they'd take over Sanders, as well as a future top 5 overall back. I can't believe people are actually posting this stuff.

I’ve been very consistent. It’s certainly a college thing with Love, what else would we use to gauge him considering he was always going to take a redshirt year.

I mean it’s literally a hypothetical question presented with no context. I even stated that I would choose Sanders over Guice. I’ve stated that this is based off of my analysis of their prospects in college along with Guice and Sanders performances to this point in the pros. They’ve displayed the same characteristics in the pros, be it small sample size or not, that they showed in college. So for them at least, it’s a combination of factors. With Love it’s purely based on an if healthy scenario. 

12 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Love's current situation is just so murky.  Most of the beat reporters say there is little confidence among the team that he is fully recovered... still.  I'd be pleasantly surprised if he can prove everyone wrong and show he's ready to go for training camp and/or the regular season.

Guice is my RB1 for the Redskins, but I could also see Antonio Gibson having Kamara-lite or McCaffery-lite success in Scott Turner's system.  I think AP will be phased out of the offense by midseason if Guice stays healthy.  Bryce Love is the wildcard.

 

Not familiar with the new system. Scott Turner employs a ZBS correct? If so then I lm not as high on Love in such a system regardless. He’s far superior a RB in a gap scheme IMO. Sucks if he’s still not recovered though.

Edited June 9, 2020 by diamondbull424

[HTTRDynasty]

2 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Not familiar with the new system. Scott Turner employs a ZBS correct? If so then I lm not as high on Love in such a system regardless. He’s far superior a RB in a gap scheme IMO. Sucks if he’s still not recovered though.

He’ll switch between zone and gap schemes based on the situation and opponent. But the base of the run game will be zone with a jet sweep action attached, and sequential play calling off of those looks. 

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

He’ll switch between zone and gap schemes based on the situation and opponent. But the base of the run game will be zone with a jet sweep action attached, and sequential play calling off of those looks. 

Whelp. Hopefully Love looks better in a predominantly ZBS than he did at Stanford. Granted that Stanford OL went from above average to good in a gap scheme to below average to bad in a ZBS. So perhaps it won’t matter. Especially considering Love’s physical traits would normally lend itself best to a ZBS, but similar to Priest Holmes and Jamaal Charles he runs well in between the tackles; it’s quite bizarre.

Either way I see a lot of those two players in Love, hopefully he can return to health. Was really hoping the Ravens would get him in that draft... honestly wonder if both he and Justice Hill were on the board, which back they would’ve taken. I thought Love was the same back but as opposed to C- vision he’s got A- vision.

Good dude as well. I’m going to speak his starting and NFL greatness into existence. That and I truly believe he’s one of the top 10 best RB prospects I’ve seen in the last decade. Had him right there with Nick Chubb in my ranking had they come out that same year in 2018.

[sammymvpknight]

On 6/7/2020 at 7:32 PM, EaglesPeteC said:

I posted this in the Eagles' forum but the more comparable debate is Derrius Guice vs Boston Scott

Career Stats

Guice-  42 carries  245 yards  5.8 YPC   2 TD's   7 rec  79 yards  1 TD

Boston Scott 61 carries 245 yards 4 YPC  5 TD's  24 rec 204 yards 

 

Meanwhile Miles Sanders

179 carries  818 yards 4.6 YPC 3 TD's  50 Rec 509 yards 3 TD's 

 

Guice hasn't proven half of what Sanders has at this point in their careers 

Let's have him actually play significant NFL snaps before we start comparing Guice to actual NFL players. 

The flip side to that argument is that I haven’t even seen enough of Guice to know whether he will be good in the NFL. The sample size is way too small. I do know his knee is a big probably. You just knew it would go sideways when he got a postop infection in the knee. He will certainly have degenerative changes that come from this, which means a shortened career (think Gurley but worse).  

Edited June 10, 2020 by sammymvpknight

[SmittyBacall]

Am I the only one who watched Miles Sanders last year and came away mostly underwhelmed? He’s obviously a fantastic athlete, but he has so much more to be desired in terms of nuance for the position. People are clamouring to him in fantasy, and I just don’t see the hype. 

For comparisons sake, it’s tough to pass on him solely because of Guice’s medical history, but I would do so reluctantly. Health withstanding, I’m taking Guice.

[HTTRDynasty]

2 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

Am I the only one who watched Miles Sanders last year and came away mostly underwhelmed? 

Nah, not the only one. PFF gave him a 58.5 grade as a runner last year, which ranked 90th among all RBs. 

[SmittyBacall]

7 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Nah, not the only one. PFF gave him a 58.5 grade as a runner last year, which ranked 90th among all RBs. 

Among other things, I distinctly remember him having some extremely questionable vision on a few plays from last season. I remember because I have a problem betting props and have dabbled on the Sanders-train more than a few times. 

This one play stands out in particular. What should be a routine touchdown:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Shav457/status/1204499308264992782

[MrOaktown_56]

I was very high on Guice, but he hasn't stayed healthy. If he can, he can be a very good back in the league if he's anything close to what he was in college.

[HoboRocket]

Has Miles Sanders ever had 2,000 yards in a season? No? I thought so.

Derrius Guice.

...wait, he hasn't had 2,000 yards yet, either? Oh, well, I guess 2020 will be the year that he does it! He's gonna run for 2,020 yards this season.

[diamondbull424]

On 6/10/2020 at 8:36 AM, SmittyBacall said:

Am I the only one who watched Miles Sanders last year and came away mostly underwhelmed? He’s obviously a fantastic athlete, but he has so much more to be desired in terms of nuance for the position. People are clamouring to him in fantasy, and I just don’t see the hype. 

For comparisons sake, it’s tough to pass on him solely because of Guice’s medical history, but I would do so reluctantly. Health withstanding, I’m taking Guice.

Yeah, his vision was not good. He has the same subpar RB vision as Justice Hill. Great athletic tools which gives him a floor similar to what he showed last season, but his vision leads me to believe it doesn’t get any better from here. His vision was an issue as a prospect coming from Penn State as well IMO.

If healthy Guice is the superior player for sure. Even without a large sample size, one can just look at a RB and tell whether he has superb vision... or he doesn’t. RB vision is what makes guys reach elite heights. I’ve never seen an elite RB with terrible vision.

Sanders reminds me of former Houston Texans RB out of Auburn; Ben Tate, just in a better situation and with better hands out of the backfield. But as RBs alone, I don’t see much difference.