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53 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

I will forever think Brees got robbed in 2011, maybe not robbed because Rodgers was also very very good but Brees did more with less IMO. Plus Brees had 3 4th quarter comebacks and 4 game winning drives compared to Rodgers 0 and 1. Brees just crazy unlucky, every year he had an MVP type season someone had a legitimately historical year lol

Nah, 2009 was the year Brees got robbed.

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21 hours ago, MookieMonstah said:

I will forever think Brees got robbed in 2011, maybe not robbed because Rodgers was also very very good but Brees did more with less IMO. Plus Brees had 3 4th quarter comebacks and 4 game winning drives compared to Rodgers 0 and 1. Brees just crazy unlucky, every year he had an MVP type season someone had a legitimately historical year lol

This is an awful take. Brees really had no argument.

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2 hours ago, MookieMonstah said:

Stats were similar and Brees had more game winning drives and comebacks. 

Why do GWD matter or comebacks when the Packers went 15-1? Its a stupid argument. 

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Rodgers was definitely better than Brees in 2011.  Numbers aside, Rodgers could do no wrong that year.  That was the year him and Nelson mastered the back-shoulder throw and it felt impossible to stop.  But focusing on numbers, what would Brees' argument be?  He threw one more TD on 155 more pass attempts.  Rodgers had a much better INT%.  His QB rating was 12 points higher.  His Y/A was almost a full yard higher.  Packers had the highest scoring offense in the league.  Packers were the best team that season.  Other than bulk yards, what argument does Brees have?  And like I said, just watching them play, I felt it was pretty clear who the best QB that season was.  

And I think that as impressive as throwing for 5400 yards was, lets not forget that in 2011, multiple QBs threw for 5,000.  So it wasn't as impressive as it would have been otherwise.  

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In 2009 Manning had 7 game winning drives on 14-0 Indy before they rested players. He had 1 less TD pass and more yards  Brees played well enough for MVP consideration but he did not get robbed. You don’t give an MVP to Brees because Manning was so good in 14 weeks that the Colts played 2 fake game with Curtis Painter playing about half of those 2 games. They also vote before the playoffs so the SB does long count.

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4 hours ago, MookieMonstah said:

Stats were similar and Brees had more game winning drives and comebacks. 

That's because despite having a worse defense, Rodgers wasn't getting down. He was too busy scoring and going 15-1 with a below average defense. Stats weren't really that similar. Rodgers beats him handily in every advanced/efficiency metric and Brees only had bulk numbers over him because he needed to play more.

Rodgers: 9.0 TD %, 1.2 Int%, 9.2 Y/A, 8.22 NY/A, 9.39 ANY/A, 122.5 Passer Rating

Rodgers was first in all of those. Brees, wasn't even second. He threw 150 more passes for one more TD.

Brees: 7.0 TD%, 2.1 Int%, 8.3 Y/A, 7.81 NY/A, 8.23 ANY/A, 110.6 Passer Rating

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36 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

That's because despite having a worse defense, Rodgers wasn't getting down. He was too busy scoring and going 15-1 with a below average defense. Stats weren't really that similar. Rodgers beats him handily in every advanced/efficiency metric and Brees only had bulk numbers over him because he needed to play more.

Rodgers: 9.0 TD %, 1.2 Int%, 9.2 Y/A, 8.22 NY/A, 9.39 ANY/A, 122.5 Passer Rating

Rodgers was first in all of those. Brees, wasn't even second. He threw 150 more passes for one more TD.

Brees: 7.0 TD%, 2.1 Int%, 8.3 Y/A, 7.81 NY/A, 8.23 ANY/A, 110.6 Passer Rating

Rodgers deserves the MVP that year for sure.

However, another thing to consider, Saints defense was bottom of the league in takeaways while Packers were top of the league.  Packers defense got 22 more takeways than the Saints.  That many takeaways makes a significant difference and does effect the offense efficiency.

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Its odd that the 6-10 (crappy) and 10-6 Bills got better draft picks and gave more playing time to those picks.

  • The SB champ and 12-4 Patriots, not so much.

 

Are we really praising the Bills for Singletary and Moss at RB like they are all-pro studs?

  • Michel was drafted in 2018 and Damien Harris (2019) had to work into the lineup and had an injury.
    • I will take them over the Buffalo drafted playtime champions at RB. At worse they are close.

At picking Ed Oliver when he was still there at 9 overall? The Patriots were fools for not taking Oliver at 9! 👀

  • BTW, Vinovich has as many sacks (11) as the Bills 2019 and 2020 draft classes combined.

Ford was a nice 2nd round pick (#38) but Onwenu in round 6 (#182) was a better pick.

 

At WR first round N'Keal Harry sucked and Gabriel Davis was a nice 4th round pick. That's for sure.

Knox is definitely  better than the 2 stiffs BB drafted at TE.

 

 

Edited by SkippyX
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Also, total draft picks is a lame axis to use for the chart. Use the Jimmy Johnson formula and assign value to those picks. Mr. Irrelevant counts the same as the #1 overall pick on that line. That would move the Patriots far to the left.

 

Personally, I'm a huge fan of value judgement graphs based on the play times of Shane Lemieux and Andrew Thomas on a bottom 4 O-line. Its so important that your crappy guys were draft picks.

The Giants drafted 5 corners and signed 2 to huge deals the last 2 off seasons because the draft picks can't play. Lets count their play time instead of their production!

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On 4/5/2021 at 9:52 AM, Spartacus said:

Why do GWD matter or comebacks when the Packers went 15-1? Its a stupid argument. 

Agreed. Comebacks are for suckers. During the 24 years I bet sports in Las Vegas I learned to value the lead. Give me Johnny Miller or Katie Ledecky mode any time. Get to the front and expand the margin. I have no idea why anyone cares about comeback stats. With top players it is basically defining how frequently they underachieve during the bulk of the game. And it applies everywhere. The only guys I saw who could grind out a profit in horse racing were the ones who could identify undervalued speed horses. Bet on deep closers for a living and you've got no chance. 

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