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1 minute ago, animaltested said:

Yes. 

BUT, Seattle offense has not been as sharp these last few games. They have been moving the ball, just nowhere near as efficiently as when they had Carson and some semblance of a running game. Red Zone offense has dropped off a cliff, and a lot of drives have been puttering out once past mid field. 

Seattle passing game is always more deadly when PA is a significant part. Collins, Homer and Dallas are not keeping LB's and Safeties in check. And neither are as good as Carson is out of the backfield, and in protection. 

Part of the red zone offense dropping off is because of Wilson's crucial picks in the red zone. But yeah, getting Carson (and eventually Penny, too) back will be huge if Wilson can just stop making bone-headed plays.

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Am I the only one who is sceptical of Herbert and his play? Now obviously pre-draft evaluations can be wrong but didn’t people think he wasn’t ready to start right away? On its face and from a distance looks like he’s been the best rookie QB this far or at the very least as good as Burrow which is not what people expected.

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53 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Am I the only one who is sceptical of Herbert and his play? Now obviously pre-draft evaluations can be wrong but didn’t people think he wasn’t ready to start right away? On its face and from a distance looks like he’s been the best rookie QB this far or at the very least as good as Burrow which is not what people expected.

I think one of the things that was constantly overlooked with him was how poor his OC was in college. As a Duck fan, I could not have been happier when Arroyo was signed by UNLV. I think he really was held back in his development by the way Arroyo wanted to run the offense. He was never going to be a horizontal/ quick game kind of guy but thats how we always tried to run our offense throughout his 4 years. He's now in a system that suits his style and has the playmakers to pull it off... Now, that being said, he's exceeded any reasonable expectations that people could have had, because he definitely did struggle with decision-making and consistency in college. Another thing that curiously was never talked about was that he was a 3 sport athlete in high school, and didn't focus exclusively on football until he got to college. So he was a lot more raw than the other guys and this is first time having quality coaches truly dedicated to his development

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17 hours ago, SBLIII said:

Murray isn’t as accurate of a passer and takes too many risks. 

He may not be as consistent Mahomes, but I think his ball placement is already better. 

Plus if he had Andy Reid coaching him and Tavis Kelce and Tyreek Hill around him, he would be just as consistent anyway

 

 

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2 minutes ago, AntonChigurh said:

He may not be as consistent Mahomes, but I think his ball placement is already better. 

Plus if he had Andy Reid coaching him and Tavis Kelce and Tyreek Hill around him, he would be just as consistent anyway

 

 

Murray has DeAndre Hopkins and Larry Fitzgerald.... and you are going to try and make an argument based around....weapons.... ???

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6 minutes ago, drew39k said:

Murray has DeAndre Hopkins and Larry Fitzgerald.... and you are going to try and make an argument based around....weapons.... ???

Fitzgerald is 37 years old, he lost several steps. 

No use even mentioning him in a weapons argument 

Kyler has the best wr in the league, an been out of prime old GOAT and a speed guy (Kirk) as weapons 

 

But prime Hill, Kelce, Watkins, Hartman, with Andy Reid at the helm is far more solid. 

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2 minutes ago, AntonChigurh said:

Fitzgerald is 37 years old, he lost several steps. 

No use even mentioning him in a weapons argument 

Kyler has the best wr in the league, an been out of prime old GOAT and a speed guy (Kirk) as weapons 

 

But prime Hill, Kelce, Watkins, Hartman, with Andy Reid at the helm is far more solid. 

Speed was never Fitzgeralds calling card. The guy has arguably the best hands in NFL history. He is a savvy vet that knows how to run routes to get open and can make big grabs. Kirk is a really good Slot WR and Hopkins is the best WR in the NFL.  On a pure comp:

Hopkins> HIll

Fitz<Kelce

Kirk>Watkins

Isabella<Hardman

Kingsbury<Reid

I'd take the Chiefs, but we aren't talking about a large enough gap that you can really use it as a point in trying to explain the difference between Mahomes and Murray.

 

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1 hour ago, Kip Smithers said:

Am I the only one who is sceptical of Herbert and his play? Now obviously pre-draft evaluations can be wrong but didn’t people think he wasn’t ready to start right away? On its face and from a distance looks like he’s been the best rookie QB this far or at the very least as good as Burrow which is not what people expected.

Are you the only one? Probably not. It's not bad to be skeptical, I'm a fan and it wouldn't surprise me if he had peaks and valleys as a young QB.

I do believe, as stated above he was absolutely coached down at Oregon. The staff did him no favors schematically, and made no attempt to change that. They sort of tried to fit a square peg into a round hole.

What is surprising is that the things he wasn't good at in college, he is actually really quite good at in the NFL. Which kinda makes me think it wasn't all on him.

As far as not being ready to start, for the Chargers I honestly think it was more Anthony Lynn wanted Tyrod Taylor to start, and the abridged offseason. From everything I have heard he is one of the hardest workers when it comes to improving on the team. Shows up before pretty much everyone else, and leaves after the building is almost empty.

It also should be repeated that the draft gurus, scouts and FOs of the NFL are often wrong, sometimes breathtakingly so. How many times have we heard "can't miss prospect" or most "pro ready" or someone that will anchor a position for a "generation" only for them to vanish from the NFL world? Statistically the draft is really just one big crap shoot. Sometimes you lose when the odds are in your favor, sometimes you win big on a long shot.

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22 minutes ago, drew39k said:

Speed was never Fitzgeralds calling card. The guy has arguably the best hands in NFL history. He is a savvy vet that knows how to run routes to get open and can make big grabs. Kirk is a really good Slot WR and Hopkins is the best WR in the NFL.  On a pure comp:

Hopkins> HIll

Fitz<Kelce

Kirk>Watkins

Isabella<Hardman

Kingsbury<Reid

I'd take the Chiefs, but we aren't talking about a large enough gap that you can really use it as a point in trying to explain the difference between Mahomes and Murray.

 

I would switch Kirk and Watkins, Watkins is far more talented and better production in his career. 

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2 minutes ago, AntonChigurh said:

I would switch Kirk and Watkins, Watkins is far more talented and better production in his career. 

I honestly had Watkins ahead initially but then decided to dig into the stats a little. It seems like Watkins gets a bit of a bump from his name recognition and original draft status more than actual production. The guy has had one single thousand yard year(only one other above 700 yds too). He really just isnt that productive on the field for whatever reason.

Kirk has racked up roughly 1700 yds and 12 tds over the past three seasons while Watkins has 1400 yds and 8tds. 

Kirk has been more productive and is younger.

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