Browns General Discussion

[candyman93]

2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yep, this is proper roster management and why having 8-10 picks every year is important.

Allowing a guy 2 years on the bench before starting allows them time to develop while also allowing for 2 years of cost controlled talent on the back end of the rookie deal.

It comes down to QB play.

 

The Patriot way took a nose dive when Brady left. The Steelers are on the verge of collapsing, they just don’t realize it yet. Saints are going to be interesting (in a bad way).
 

I guess I’m just not sold Baker is good enough to let you get away with building a team that way.

[JDD]

32 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

It comes down to QB play.

 

The Patriot way took a nose dive when Brady left. The Steelers are on the verge of collapsing, they just don’t realize it yet. Saints are going to be interesting (in a bad way).
 

I guess I’m just not sold Baker is good enough to let you get away with building a team that way.

I mean we need continuity from the top down to build a team. When was the last time we had the same GM, HC, OC, DC, and starting QB in back to back years? I don't think you need to look very hard to see what the problem has been since 99. 

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, JDD said:

I mean we need continuity from the top down to build a team. When was the last time we had the same GM, HC, OC, DC, and starting QB in back to back years? I don't think you need to look very hard to see what the problem has been since 99. 

Well, not just continuity but continuity with ability. A lot of the time that we didn't have continuity it was for good reason, they weren't good. Fortunately it looks like we have the important pieces in place to have continuity and keep continuity.

That's a lot of continuity in that paragraph.

[JDD]

3 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Well, not just continuity but continuity with ability. A lot of the time that we didn't have continuity it was for good reason, they weren't good. Fortunately it looks like we have the important pieces in place to have continuity and keep continuity.

That's a lot of continuity in that paragraph.

1000%

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

30 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Well, not just continuity but continuity with ability. A lot of the time that we didn't have continuity it was for good reason, they weren't good. Fortunately it looks like we have the important pieces in place to have continuity and keep continuity.

That's a lot of continuity in that paragraph.

 

26 minutes ago, JDD said:

1000%

I mean, it’s hard to argue and say they would have been good or anything of the sort, but how much was the lack of continuity why almost every draft pick for 20 years seemed to bust?
 

I just feel like you can take 2 players with the physical ability, work ethic, etc and they could have very different careers depending on the franchises they were drafted by.

When you start listing reasons why a player can fail other than their own talent, the organization was guilty of failing them in pretty much every way.

[JDD]

15 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

 

I mean, it’s hard to argue and say they would have been good or anything of the sort, but how much was the lack of continuity why almost every draft pick for 20 years seemed to bust?
 

I just feel like you can take 2 players with the physical ability, work ethic, etc and they could have very different careers depending on the franchises they were drafted by.

When you start listing reasons why a player can fail other than their own talent, the organization was guilty of failing them in pretty much every way.

The way this team had turnover with players and coaches I'm sure a bunch of guys hate the Browns organization. 

 

[Kiwibrown]

Continuity is earned not given. There is only one time we could have benefited from not firing a coach and that was chud to Pettine. And though I am glad we didnt in hindsight we should have cut jackson earlier. 

[MWil23]

My biggest issue was the lack of any identity the Browns tried to create via the draft in that window. A corner here, a lineman there, a TE here, an EDGE guy there, a couple of running backs, passing on quarterbacks, and then lucking into JT73 because the Raiders bailed us out with Russell, who we were going to take.

Where’s the identity? Speed? (No) The trenches? (No) A tenacious front 7? (No) A smash mouth physical running game? (No)

This organization split the difference on every decision they made for 20 years and it showed. No identity, philosophy, etc, and that doesn’t work in any business or educational model anywhere at any level.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

My biggest issue was the lack of any identity the Browns tried to create via the draft in that window. A corner here, a lineman there, a TE here, an EDGE guy there, a couple of running backs, passing on quarterbacks, and then lucking into JT73 because the Raiders bailed us out with Russell, who we were going to take.

Where’s the identity? Speed? (No) The trenches? (No) A tenacious front 7? (No) A smash mouth physical running game? (No)

This organization split the difference on every decision they made for 20 years and it showed. No identity, philosophy, etc, and that doesn’t work in any business or educational model anywhere at any level.

Agreed, but how do you develop an identity when you change course every 2-3 years?
 

It’s human nature to want to do something different than the last guy, but that comes at a cost.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

Continuity is earned not given. There is only one time we could have benefited from not firing a coach and that was chud to Pettine. And though I am glad we didnt in hindsight we should have cut jackson earlier. 

I mean, when did all of the regime change benefit us save this last time?
 

This is a perfect example of Occam’s razor.  Either almost literally every player and coach we’ve hired for 20 years was a bum…. OR…. it was the team/organization/ownership that was the problem.

Which of those is most likely to you?

[MWil23]

48 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Agreed, but how do you develop an identity when you change course every 2-3 years?

 

For example, don’t build a vertical downfield passing attack and then draft Charlie Frye and/or sign Jeff Garcia, who are the polar opposite.

48 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It’s human nature to want to do something different than the last guy, but that comes at a cost.

No question 

[TeHDruiD]

A good majority of our busts went on to other teams and weren't very good either

Honestly, from bottom to top (front office, coaches, players) this team has been a clusterf. A lack of scouting ability and identity led to a disaster.

Dorsey knew talent, prior to him I'm not sure wtf happened, but it started with Dorsey's ability to build a team with the resources left to him which miraculously no one before him could do

[TeHDruiD]

Dorsey always wanted to be the smartest guy in the room was his problem. We got extremely lucky Freddie became our HC because it let Haslam see he wasn't the guy and got lucky Stefanski and Berry were still available. 2 things we never had (quality HC, good GM) who share the same vision. Before Dorsey, it was literally let's go to the Browns and make a lot of money throwing crap against the wall hoping it sticks (Holmgren)

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, TeHDruiD said:

Dorsey always wanted to be the smartest guy in the room was his problem. We got extremely lucky Freddie became our HC because it let Haslam see he wasn't the guy and got lucky Stefanski and Berry were still available. 2 things we never had (quality HC, good GM) who share the same vision. Before Dorsey, it was literally let's go to the Browns and make a lot of money throwing crap against the wall hoping it sticks (Holmgren)

And that’s on ownership.

Sashi had Berry here 3 years before we hired him and the two of them wanted to hire McDermott instead of Hue.  Haslam wanted Hue.  
 

How many other instances have their been like that?  I can’t even imagine…

Hoe many coaches got saddled with a lame duck GM or vice versa?  
 

Holmgren, Heckert and Shurmur was the last time we actually “did it right” as far as structure and that was like 6 dozen regimes ago.

[TeHDruiD]

On 7/20/2021 at 10:06 AM, candyman93 said:

I’m just not sold Baker is good enough to let you get away with building a team that way.

I get it but the guy was doomed his first 2 years. His rookie year he broke the TD record and that summer he spent all of his time making commercials and enjoying celebrity status.

Year 2 he shows up fat with an ego of a guy who just won the Super Bowl. The coach let the inmates run the asylum. I believe that was the humbling experience he needed to mature and grow

Year 3 he shows up in great shape with a coach who runs the show. His press conferences were night and day, his demeanor changed and he believed in his coach

I think year 2 under Stefanski is going to shock a lot of people