Browns General Discussion

[sdrawkcab321]

21 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

We badly need a playmaker at WR.

 

I really like Cooper, DPJ, and Njoku (at times), but that’s not enough.

Stefanski still wouldn’t know how to use him. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 hours ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

Stefanski still wouldn’t know how to use him. 

Amari seemed just fine this year…

[MSURacerDT55]

10 hours ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

Stefanski still wouldn’t know how to use him. 

This...

[MWil23]

3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Amari seemed just fine this year…

So did Njoku, who had a career year.

This FO hasn't made a concerted effort to do jack squat in drafting skill positions outside of Corey Coleman, Braylon Edwards, KWII, and a late first trade up for David Njoku in 25 years and we wonder why we consistently lack firepower.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

25 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

So did Njoku, who had a career year.

This FO hasn't made a concerted effort to do jack squat in drafting skill positions outside of Corey Coleman, Braylon Edwards, KWII, and a late first trade up for David Njoku in 25 years and we wonder why we consistently lack firepower.

I actually think you can do a great job of adding skill players without spending first rounders on them, we just haven’t hit on any of those either.

The Steelers spend a 2/3 every couple years and always have a couple of guys at WR. The Bengals did well with Higgins and Boyd.  

But they’re not drafting the same type of dudes we are lol.

And also…. Diggs was a 5th… Hill was a 5th… Kelce was a 5th… Godwin was a 3rd, Amon Ra was a 4th, McLaurin was a 3rd… Metcalf/Brown/Samuel/Adams were all 2nds….

Dudes are out there, just gotta identify them and draft them. 
 

While I agree we could have invested more high picks at the position, it’s another example of the fact we can’t expect to field a first rounder or high profile FA at every position. We MUST be able to draft and develop talent.

[MWil23]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I actually think you can do a great job of adding skill players without spending first rounders on them, we just haven’t hit on any of those either.

The Steelers spend a 2/3 every couple years and always have a couple of guys at WR. The Bengals did well with Higgins and Boyd.  

But they’re not drafting the same type of dudes we are lol.

And also…. Diggs was a 5th… Hill was a 5th… Kelce was a 5th… Godwin was a 3rd, Amon Ra was a 4th, McLaurin was a 3rd… Metcalf/Brown/Samuel/Adams were all 2nds….

Dudes are out there, just gotta identify them and draft them. 
 

While I agree we could have invested more high picks at the position, it’s another example of the fact we can’t expect to field a first rounder or high profile FA at every position. We MUST be able to draft and develop talent.

For sure. You also see the Bengals making multiple plays for elite prospects like A.J. Greene and Ja'Marr Chase to go with dudes like Eikert who was a stud TE.

This regime has drafted as many RBs in the first round as it has WIDE RECEIVERS...and has drafted more first round Centers.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

For sure. You also see the Bengals making multiple plays for elite prospects like A.J. Greene and Ja'Marr Chase to go with dudes like Eikert who was a stud TE.

This regime has drafted as many RBs in the first round as it has WIDE RECEIVERS...and has drafted more first round Centers.

Its hard to hold the 2011 draft against this regime, but I get your point.

I think this regime has done a much better job of using high picks to address premium positions instead of centers and running backs.

The biggest issue as it relates to the current roster are the pair of absolute whiffs (so far anyway) in the 3rd round on Schwartz and Bell.  

[MWil23]

32 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Its hard to hold the 2011 draft against this regime, but I get your point.

I think this regime has done a much better job of using high picks to address premium positions instead of centers and running backs.

The biggest issue as it relates to the current roster are the pair of absolute whiffs (so far anyway) in the 3rd round on Schwartz and Bell.  

My biggest issue with the current regime I guess more or less shows the remaining 4 teams in yesterday's matchup and how they're built.

Aside from the obvious, which would be QB play, you look at Cincinnati, SF, KC, and Philly and you see all four teams have a dominant pass rush with 3 of those teams having insane outside weapons.

SF has Aiyuk and Deebo to go with Kittle and a dynamic running back

Cinci has Chase, Higgins, and Boyd with an adequate Mixon/Perine duo

Philly has Brown and Smith as dynamic outside guys and a fantastic hybrid rushing attack

KC has Mahomes, Reid, Kelce, and speed everywhere (when healthy) on the outside.

However, aside from that, Philly had 70 sacks, Cinci has a dominant front 4 with Reeder, Hendrickson, and Hubbard, KC has a fantastic Front 4, and SF might have as good of a Front 7 as there is in the entire league.

Ironically, all of those teams have "capable" but not great corner play but solid to great safety play.

I still maintain that we've essentially built this roster backwards, and in today's NFL where most teams play aggressive zone with occasional man while sending blitzes and varied pressure from everywhere, we have been content to play bend and don't break and investing high picks in the corner spots, which isn't bad in and of itself, but you're setting them up for failure without being able to get that QB to throw the ball within 3 seconds.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

11 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

My biggest issue with the current regime I guess more or less shows the remaining 4 teams in yesterday's matchup and how they're built.

Aside from the obvious, which would be QB play, you look at Cincinnati, SF, KC, and Philly and you see all four teams have a dominant pass rush with 3 of those teams having insane outside weapons.

SF has Aiyuk and Deebo to go with Kittle and a dynamic running back

Cinci has Chase, Higgins, and Boyd with an adequate Mixon/Perine duo

Philly has Brown and Smith as dynamic outside guys and a fantastic hybrid rushing attack

KC has Mahomes, Reid, Kelce, and speed everywhere (when healthy) on the outside.

However, aside from that, Philly had 70 sacks, Cinci has a dominant front 4 with Reeder, Hendrickson, and Hubbard, KC has a fantastic Front 4, and SF might have as good of a Front 7 as there is in the entire league.

Ironically, all of those teams have "capable" but not great corner play but solid to great safety play.

I still maintain that we've essentially built this roster backwards, and in today's NFL where most teams play aggressive zone with occasional man while sending blitzes and varied pressure from everywhere, we have been content to play bend and don't break and investing high picks in the corner spots, which isn't bad in and of itself, but you're setting them up for failure without being able to get that QB to throw the ball within 3 seconds.

I’d argue we have invested picks everywhere but development has been…. less than ideal.  Have we drafted scrubs? Does the coaching just suck?  Both?  Idk…

I’d personally lean towards coaching being more of an issue as the offensive guys have developed reasonably well (Hudson, Harris, Bryant, DPJ) and as opposed to the defensive guys who’ve been disappointing.

I think our roster looks a lot different if we hit on more defensive players.

[MWil23]

Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I’d argue we have invested picks everywhere but development has been…. less than ideal.  Have we drafted scrubs? Does the coaching just suck?  Both?  Idk…

I’d personally lean towards coaching being more of an issue as the offensive guys have developed reasonably well (Hudson, Harris, Bryant, DPJ) and as opposed to the defensive guys who’ve been disappointing.

No question. For all the Stefanski hate, the dude has been able to delegate and create a well oiled OL machine with arguably our weakest link being a LT we took Top 15 overall. Certainly Callahan is a large part of that, but so is Stefanski's hybrid ZBS and gap scheme. Teller was a JAG in Buffalo before coming here and Pokic sucked at his previous spot too.

DPJ couldn't figure it out in UM and here he's looked the part of a solid starter at points. He even managed to borderline salvage Baker for a year and a few games in change, as well as JB having a nice season.

Contrast that with the defense, and I haven't seen less of a return for more that we've invested. Somehow Ward and Newsome regressed, as did JJIII here, and Delpit looks lost and confused and not even roster worthy at points with flashes of "WOW that dude is an athlete and tackler" moments.

I still see/have seen next to zero real tangible investment in the LB spot outside of JOK who was a hybrid S coming out going back to D'Quell Jackson, but still.

Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I think our roster looks a lot different if we hit on more defensive players.

It's definitely a chicken/egg thing. I think Newsome and Emerson are hits with a bunch of those DT's as "meh okay I guess they can make the roster and I guess we have to start two of them" types. Phillips sucked at LSU so I didn't get drafting him at all when we did.

Some teams get a Wilson in the 3rd, and some teams like us get a guy like him in the third.

[MSURacerDT55]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I’d argue we have invested picks everywhere but development has been…. less than ideal.  Have we drafted scrubs? Does the coaching just suck?  Both?  Idk…

I’d personally lean towards coaching being more of an issue as the offensive guys have developed reasonably well (Hudson, Harris, Bryant, DPJ) and as opposed to the defensive guys who’ve been disappointing.

I think our roster looks a lot different if we hit on more defensive players.

I agree with this but its not like the defense didn't have moments when they were good/very good this year. My thing is why the off and on?, I would have been better with them just being bad all year as opposed to them having moments of brilliance.

Also you know how I am about this, as a Head Coach and CEO if one side of the ball or one aspect of the team isn't functioning at a high level you go down there and find out whats going on and have uncomfortable conversations, this is a healthy thing. 

The majority of the defensive woes/disappointments were because these guys didn't have a healthy sense of fear, there was no accountability for not doing what they were supposed to do, Woods expected them to know their stuff and never was a jerk about what he wanted, you have to be a jerk sometimes about your expectations. We have good players on defense, the few ones who succeeded this year were all self-motivated guys, and there was zero togetherness. Just drafting good guys isn't  enough, getting good players to play at a consistently high level is where your money is made as a coach.

Imagine if Stefanski held everyone accountable and these guys played to their potential more than just a quarter or a half or every other game or when they felt like it how good we could be. I really hope that Stefanski empowers Schwartz to be the enforcer and not try to keep him on a leash, with this alone we can make strides as a team.

Just a quick rant.....

 

[MWil23]

3 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I agree with this but its not like the defense didn't have moments when they were good/very good this year. My thing is why the off and on?, I would have been better with them just being bad all year as opposed to them having moments of brilliance.

Also you know how I am about this, as a Head Coach and CEO if one side of the ball or one aspect of the team isn't functioning at a high level you go down there and find out whats going on and have uncomfortable conversations, this is a healthy thing. 

The majority of the defensive woes/disappointments were because these guys didn't have a healthy sense of fear, there was no accountability for not doing what they were supposed to do, Woods expected them to know their stuff and never was a jerk about what he wanted, you have to be a jerk sometimes about your expectations. We have good players on defense, the few ones who succeeded this year were all self-motivated guys, and there was zero togetherness. Just drafting good guys isn't  enough, getting good players to play at a consistently high level is where your money is made as a coach.

Imagine if Stefanski held everyone accountable and these guys played to their potential more than just a quarter or a half or every other game or when they felt like it how good we could be. I really hope that Stefanski empowers Schwartz to be the enforcer and not try to keep him on a leash, with this alone we can make strides as a team.

Just a quick rant.....

 

I think often times as coaches, their/our best assets are also our biggest weaknesses. I think what makes Stefanski "special" is his ability to delegate and the trust he has for his coordinators. I personally am optimistic he lets Schwartz have borderline if not total autonomy of the defense. And I think that's what he did with Woods too, which was an absolute mistake.

Look at Clowney's refusal to play vs. Baltimore and his comments. Look at the lack of accountability for blown coverages in the secondary. Look at the lack of consistent effort and "loafs" on giveup plays where they didn't finish.

That's on the defensive staff for allowing it to happen and not doing anything, but that's also on the HC for not being informed and inserting himself.

He should have gone down there and done something, reset the expectations with the staff, and then gone from there.

[candyman93]

I’m curious to see if we trade down again to lessen the cap hit by rookies. There was a .6 mil cap hit difference between Metchie (where we originally were to pick) and Emerson.

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by candyman93

[mtmmike]

5 hours ago, MWil23 said:

My biggest issue with the current regime I guess more or less shows the remaining 4 teams in yesterday's matchup and how they're built.

Aside from the obvious, which would be QB play, you look at Cincinnati, SF, KC, and Philly and you see all four teams have a dominant pass rush with 3 of those teams having insane outside weapons.

SF has Aiyuk and Deebo to go with Kittle and a dynamic running back

Cinci has Chase, Higgins, and Boyd with an adequate Mixon/Perine duo

Philly has Brown and Smith as dynamic outside guys and a fantastic hybrid rushing attack

KC has Mahomes, Reid, Kelce, and speed everywhere (when healthy) on the outside.

However, aside from that, Philly had 70 sacks, Cinci has a dominant front 4 with Reeder, Hendrickson, and Hubbard, KC has a fantastic Front 4, and SF might have as good of a Front 7 as there is in the entire league.

Ironically, all of those teams have "capable" but not great corner play but solid to great safety play.

I still maintain that we've essentially built this roster backwards, and in today's NFL where most teams play aggressive zone with occasional man while sending blitzes and varied pressure from everywhere, we have been content to play bend and don't break and investing high picks in the corner spots, which isn't bad in and of itself, but you're setting them up for failure without being able to get that QB to throw the ball within 3 seconds.

How come we did not have these posts when Mayfield was the qb?

Another question what is Mayfield and leshaun qb rating under Stefanski?

[Thomas5737]

11 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Teller was a JAG in Buffalo before coming here

To be fair he only spent his rookie season in Buffalo and was good here before Stefanski arrived. When he started for us it was his 2nd year in the league.