MWil23 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: To be fair he only spent his rookie season in Buffalo and was good here before Stefanski arrived. When he started for us it was his 2nd year in the league. He started 9 games in 2019 with a 56.7 PFF grade which is about 15-25 points below his Stefanski average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 46 minutes ago, MWil23 said: He started 9 games in 2019 with a 56.7 PFF grade which is about 15-25 points below his Stefanski average. Yeah but we're talking about a rookie, playing a different position. I think he would have been fine wherever he landed. Maybe he is better here than anywhere else but maulers are gonna maul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 5 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: Yeah but we're talking about a rookie, playing a different position. I think he would have been fine wherever he landed. Maybe he is better here than anywhere else but maulers are gonna maul. He was a rookie in 2018. In 2019 he played here and looked ok. Meh. Whatever. Started half the season. In 2020 under stefanski/Callahan he was a second team all pro. The dude was a 5th round pick. The “he’d have been fine wherever he landed” narrative is optimistic at best. If all you had to do was draft a mauling guard in the 5th and you’d get a pro bowler and all pro I’d imagine most teams would just go on ahead and do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: He was a rookie in 2018. In 2019 he played here and looked ok. Meh. Whatever. Started half the season. In 2020 under stefanski/Callahan he was a second team all pro. The dude was a 5th round pick. The “he’d have been fine wherever he landed” narrative is optimistic at best. If all you had to do was draft a mauling guard in the 5th and you’d get a pro bowler and all pro I’d imagine most teams would just go on ahead and do that. If all you had to do was trade for a mauling guard and you’d get a pro bowler and all pro I’d imagine we would just go on ahead and do that instead of paying one $15 million. I'm not discrediting anyone, I'm just not going to agree that we took Teller and made a jag a pro bowl player because of Stefanski otherwise Wills would also be good. Teller gets most of the credit. Stefanski gets credit for hiring Callahan who I'm sure made Teller better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 9 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: Yeah but we're talking about a rookie, playing a different position. I think he would have been fine wherever he landed. Maybe he is better here than anywhere else but maulers are gonna maul. He was a rookie in 2018 in Buffalo. Then in 2019, he came here, looked mediocre at best, and in 2020 with Stefanski, turned into an All Pro. I'm not saying Stefanski "made him", but he certainly put it all together here in his ZBS system with Stefanski and Callahan as opposed to Wylie and whoever he had in Buffalo. The context of my OP was that dudes have developed here on that side of the ball. 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: otherwise Wills would also be good. You could make the argument that if not for Callahan and Stefanski with the ZBS system, Wills might be a major bust and even worse than he is now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: If all you had to do was trade for a mauling guard and you’d get a pro bowler and all pro I’d imagine we would just go on ahead and do that instead of paying one $15 million. right. Who’s arguing that? 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: I'm not discrediting anyone, I'm just not going to agree that we took Teller and made a jag a pro bowl player I mean this is exactly what happened. Not sure there another side to this argument. Backup to start both ‘18-‘19 seasons and was an all pro/pro bowler after. That’s not an opinion, it’s a description of events. 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: because of Stefanski otherwise Wills would also be good. What does Wills have to do with this? Every player a coach works with has to develop and be great or they’re not credited for developing anyone? 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: Teller gets most of the credit. Stefanski gets credit for hiring Callahan who I'm sure made Teller better. It’s both coaching and the player improving, I don’t see why this is a point of contention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 5 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: 6 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: I'm not discrediting anyone, I'm just not going to agree that we took Teller and made a jag a pro bowl player I mean this is exactly what happened. Not sure there another side to this argument. Backup to start both ‘18-‘19 seasons and was an all pro/pro bowler after. That’s not an opinion, it’s a description of events. He was a 5th round rookie who started 7 games. Would you expect him to automatically develop into a pro bowl player out of the gate? It's a great story and I love watching him run block but it is disingenuous to claim he went from nothing to what he is because of Stefanski. I mean, he did, but he was an infant when we got him not a middling journeyman. If we can turn any mediocre or worse guard into Teller we would, and not extend him. .We were lucky the Bills went another direction and traded him off for just a little more than they spent on him. I think more credit should go into acquiring him than anything. Unless you think we could turn any guard into Teller. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: He was a 5th round rookie who started 7 games. Would you expect him to automatically develop into a pro bowl player out of the gate? If he was always destined to be a stud I would have assumed he’d have been drafted before the 5th round. Or shown enough during those 7 starts to keep him from being traded for a day 3 pick after one year. 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: It's a great story and I love watching him run block but it is disingenuous to claim he went from nothing to what he is because of Stefanski. No one is saying it’s all Stefanski, but he and his staff are the ones who figured out how to get the most out of him as a player. They get credit for that just as they get the blame for not being able to develop a guy like Schwartz. 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: I mean, he did, but he was an infant when we got him not a middling journeyman. agreed. 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: If we can turn any mediocre or worse guard into Teller we would, and not extend him. .We were lucky the Bills went another direction and traded him off for just a little more than they spent on him. I think more credit should go into acquiring him than anything. Dorsey absolutely gets credit for finding a guy who can play. It was probably his best move as GM 1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said: Unless you think we could turn any guard into Teller. Into Teller? Absolutely not. That said, it’s a system that’s been getting the most out of OL talent for like 40 years dating back to Mike Shanahan and Alex Gibbs (if not further). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: If he was always destined to be a stud I would have assumed he’d have been drafted before the 5th round. He was all state and one of the best defensive linemen in the country his senior year of high school. He redshirted his freshman year to transition to offensive tackle. They then switched him to LG. He was all ACC one year and honorable mention another. He was drafted about where you would expect for his resume. He didn't start until week 10 of his rookie season. He started week 9 for us in 2019 and has been a starter ever since. Nothing to really say, just fun info. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pf9 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 I hope the Browns don't regret not going after Sean Payton considering we're facing him next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 32 minutes ago, pf9 said: I hope the Browns don't regret not going after Sean Payton considering we're facing him next season. Are we certain they didn't have a conversation with him? Realistically, we just don't have the firepower to even have a conversation with him. Offer a 2025 1st? We certainly aren't competing with the teams that can offer a 1st in 2023. We'd have to give up an asset of high value and low salary (Saints are $60 million over the cap). So probably Newsome or Emerson and JOK would probably be involved. Just not realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgdish Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 12 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: Are we certain they didn't have a conversation with him? Realistically, we just don't have the firepower to even have a conversation with him. Offer a 2025 1st? We certainly aren't competing with the teams that can offer a 1st in 2023. We'd have to give up an asset of high value and low salary (Saints are $60 million over the cap). So probably Newsome or Emerson and JOK would probably be involved. Just not realistic. Yeah, we can't think about giving away more 1st round picks at this point, unless it's in a trade for a Pro Bowl WR or DE (and then their contract might be too rich). Certainly not for a coach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 16 hours ago, pf9 said: I hope the Browns don't regret not going after Sean Payton considering we're facing him next season. I would have loved to have him but I think Jim harbaugh is the ultimate Haslam prize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 Jessie Bates and Payne are out of our price range, bates probably gets 16 million per year and Payne 20 million per year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 15 hours ago, Kiwibrown said: Jessie Bates and Payne are out of our price range, bates probably gets 16 million per year and Payne 20 million per year. thesalarycapisamyth.jpg 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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