MWil23 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: is this an overpay or something? What are the comps for a deal for a player his age/caliber? If we are ranking Watson right now, is he even Top 5? Top 10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 38 minutes ago, candyman93 said: You might be right or he might be how BB was for a decade in New England. From like 2011-2020 Hoodie couldn’t draft worth an ish, but he was amazing at free agency and identifying guys. Just a reference for what I’m talking about. He nailed drafting Joe Thuney and Chandler Jones, but that’s about it. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm When you have 3 rings under your belt it’s a lot different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgdish Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, MWil23 said: If we are ranking Watson right now, is he even Top 5? Top 10? Aye, there's the rub. If he doesn't bounce back to form we're royally tanked, because in his 6 games last season he looked like Baker: a bottom 10 QB. Brissett was the better QB on the team (based on current performance and not past history). Edited March 22, 2023 by dawgdish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 14 minutes ago, MWil23 said: 59 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: is this an overpay or something? What are the comps for a deal for a player his age/caliber? If we are ranking Watson right now, is he even Top 5? Top 10? Most lists I have seen he has been fringe top 10 to mid teens. Obviously he is a hard one to judge. As far as LGB wanting to know if this is an overpay, you don't have to find anything to compare it to. You just have to remember that he didn't want to be traded to Cleveland and we paid an amount so far above everyone else, that he was actually interested in playing for, that agreed to be traded to Cleveland and Cleveland gave the Texans draft picks that they didn't hesitate to accept after negotiating trade values with other interested teams. Doesn't mean it has to end up being an overpay, most fans will take one title and call it a win no matter what else happens. But as far as market value for the trade for him at the time and his contract, obvious extreme overpay by a desperate franchise. Hard to argue any of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, sdrawkcab321 said: I’ll hate till proven wrong. Can’t wait for that to happen. I’m turning gray. You'll hate even after being proven wrong. It's who you are. You love to hate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 34 minutes ago, MWil23 said: If we are ranking Watson right now, is he even Top 5? Top 10? Healthy and playing at his peak? Pushing top 5. Now? No idea, hasn’t played a full season in 2 years. But I don’t mean a player with a similar position in our arbitrary ranking. I mean a 26 yo 3x pro bowl QB who’s led the league in passing yardage. But let’s be honest, you know the point I’m getting at and you’re trying to argue semantics and minutia. I know this because you were arguably the biggest Watson honk on this board prior to him being discovered to be a perv. Players of Watson’s caliber at QB don’t become available. He did because he’s a pervert, but that has nothing to do with his abilities on the field. You can hate the trade for obvious reasons, I do, but you can’t hate it from a purely football perspective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 20 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Most lists I have seen he has been fringe top 10 to mid teens. Obviously he is a hard one to judge. As far as LGB wanting to know if this is an overpay, you don't have to find anything to compare it to. You just have to remember that he didn't want to be traded to Cleveland and we paid an amount so far above everyone else, that he was actually interested in playing for, that agreed to be traded to Cleveland and Cleveland gave the Texans draft picks that they didn't hesitate to accept after negotiating trade values with other interested teams. Doesn't mean it has to end up being an overpay, most fans will take one title and call it a win no matter what else happens. But as far as market value for the trade for him at the time and his contract, obvious extreme overpay by a desperate franchise. Hard to argue any of that. The compensation to the Texans was on par with Wilson and Stafford, despite them being like 7 years older. The contract was a lot for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Healthy and playing at his peak? Pushing top 5. Now? No idea, hasn’t played a full season in 2 years. But I don’t mean a player with a similar position in our arbitrary ranking. I mean a 26 yo 3x pro bowl QB who’s led the league in passing yardage. But let’s be honest, you know the point I’m getting at and you’re trying to argue semantics and minutia. I know this because you were arguably the biggest Watson honk on this board prior to him being discovered to be a perv. Players of Watson’s caliber at QB don’t become available. He did because he’s a pervert, but that has nothing to do with his abilities on the field. You can hate the trade for obvious reasons, I do, but you can’t hate it from a purely football perspective. Yeah I was a big fan of his. Throw in the off the field, not playing in 2 years, and his injury history and that’s a lot of money guaranteed for a gamble. For a guy who loves cap space and draft picks, I’m actually stunned by you backing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted March 22, 2023 Author Share Posted March 22, 2023 We need to just move Amari Cooper around. It’s what the Vikings do with Jefferson, Rams with Kupp, and Packers used to with Adams. With Moore and DPJ, we can even line Cooper up in the slot if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Healthy and playing at his peak? Pushing top 5. Now? No idea, hasn’t played a full season in 2 years. But I don’t mean a player with a similar position in our arbitrary ranking. I mean a 26 yo 3x pro bowl QB who’s led the league in passing yardage. But let’s be honest, you know the point I’m getting at and you’re trying to argue semantics and minutia. I know this because you were arguably the biggest Watson honk on this board prior to him being discovered to be a perv. Players of Watson’s caliber at QB don’t become available. He did because he’s a pervert, but that has nothing to do with his abilities on the field. You can hate the trade for obvious reasons, I do, but you can’t hate it from a purely football perspective. Agreed, but Watson wanted to be traded before his off the field crap became known. But anyway, yeah, we can feel gross about the trade from an off the field perspective. But it was a slam dunk from a pure football perspective. The only concern is if he can return to form. That was a huge worry of mine when we traded for him, and still is a worry to a degree, but his play last year made me think he can return to being a top 5-10 QB. He definitely struggled at times, but he also flashed. I think more of his struggles were due to not having played for nearly two years + learning a new system and a lack of chemistry with his teammates. I doubt he just all of a sudden forgot how to play football. Edited March 22, 2023 by DawgX 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 At least we traded for a WR. Better than letting Berry draft someone who will be at best a pretty good backup or depth guy. Moore has potential and showed flashes. He’s a great slot guy with deep threat ability. On paper it’s a capable trio. We decided to essentially run it back with our linebackers, so that’s…a predictable decision from Berry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Yeah I was a big fan of his. Throw in the off the field, not playing in 2 years, and his injury history and that’s a lot of money guaranteed for a gamble. For a guy who loves cap space and draft picks, I’m actually stunned by you backing it. I don’t have some crazy fetish for cap space, not sure where you’re getting that. I don’t love FA as you pay “great” prices for “good” players. That’s about it. And of course I love draft picks, but what does that have to do with this? You’re trying to frame the argument as “you can love picks or like trading them for a QB but not both” and that’s simply not true. I want as many picks as possible as they’re great assets, but sometimes those assets can be used in other ways. I loved the Amari trade last year too. It cost us a pick and a lot of cap space. I’m not inconsistent on this and it shouldn’t be surprising at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, DawgX said: Agreed, but Watson wanted to be traded before his off the field crap became known. But anyway, yeah, we can feel gross about the trade from an off the field perspective. But it was a slam dunk from a pure football perspective. The only concern is if he can return to form. That was a huge worry of mine when we traded for him, and still is a worry to a degree, but his play last year made me think he can return to being a top 5-10 QB. He definitely struggled at times, but he also flashed. I think more of his struggles were due to not having played for nearly two years + learning a new system and a lack of chemistry with his teammates. I doubt he just all of a sudden forgot how to play football. Is there even a precedent for someone “forgetting how to play football” or whatever? A severe regression after time off in their 20’s? He missed a year and a half, not 5 years or some ish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 21 minutes ago, candyman93 said: We need to just move Amari Cooper around. It’s what the Vikings do with Jefferson, Rams with Kupp, and Packers used to with Adams. With Moore and DPJ, we can even line Cooper up in the slot if necessary. That would involve a creative HC/play caller. Which Stefanski is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Is there even a precedent for someone “forgetting how to play football” or whatever? A severe regression after time off in their 20’s? He missed a year and a half, not 5 years or some ish. He’s still got a lot of issues going on off the field. Those legal issues haven’t gone all the way away. Which could still be an issue going into this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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