2020 Browns Hype

[WizeGuy]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

To put things into perspective here:

PFF rated the Browns as having the #2 offensive firepower in the entire NFL outside of the QB position. They signed a Pro Bowl TE in Hooper to go with Njoku who was hurt most of the year, they have 2 Pro Bowl WRs in Landry and OBJ, and they have 2 Pro Bowl/All Pro RB in Chubb and Hunt. They upgraded BOTH OT spots, to go with a Pro Bowl LG and alternate Pro Bowl C in Tretter.

PFF also rated their EDGE spots high with Myles and Vernon (who was hurt and underwhelmed last year), and they have a Pro Bowl CB in Ward (hurt last year).

...and Vegas set their over/under at 8.5.

What's the common denominator?

No one in Vegas believes in Baker Mayfield as a Franchise QB outside of about 1/2 of the Cleveland fanbase.

He had a fantastic rookie 2018 followed by an AWFUL 1st half of the season and an average 2nd half of the season, despite one of the best rushing attacks in the league and weapons on the outside. Freddie Kitchens and company took ALL of the blame. They won't blame the coaching staff twice...it'll be "New QB time" in 2021 if he sucks again.

Granted, 3 coaching staffs in three years is classic "Browns" for a young QB.

PFF is trash, but I agree. The potential is there for a special season. Just have to hope Stefanski is a good coach and Mayfield drastically improves, which is possible because a trash o-line + a trash coach will stunt any young QBs development. 

[MWil23]

23 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

You have acquired former first round picks too.  It isn’t just ones you drafted. 

True, but often times, former 1st rounders either haven't lived up to the billing or have an injury history (Conklin). My point was that they're still VERY young and not that far removed from 0-16.

23 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

When I say unathletic I mean relatively speaking.  He isn’t in same class as some of his colleagues who get athletic QB label.  He can scramble to buy time.

Oh, I don't disagree. But, he's not a statue like some of your traditional pocket passers.

23 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Depth will be a big concern for everyone this year, more so than ever I think.   You will have to get ready faster, so you will have to bang more early.   You could have guys quarantined every time they get sick whereas usually guys play through that.   

2020 winner may come down to simple injury luck.  

  

My point is, they're still very young and lack depth because of how AWFUL they were 3, 4, and 5 years ago, especially with drafting. So, you take their already lack of depth at those spots, then factor in those sickness/injury concerns for every NFL team, and they're at a disadvantage because of previous ineptitude.

12 minutes ago, HoboRocket said:

Yeah, can anyone explain to me why they destroyed their LBs? At one point (like a year or two ago) they had more LBs playing well than they had positions. Since then, Joe Schobert, Christian Kirksey, Mychal Kendricks, Jamie Collins, and Genard Avery have left the team. I'm baffled.

Schobert they let walk in free agency because of money (I was unhappy).

Kirksey signed a huge contract and then has been hurt the last 2-3 years, so he's not what he was (injuries) and not even close to worth what they were paying him.

Kendricks never really did anything here.

Collins had injury concerns and was playing out of position.

Avery they traded away to Philadelphia last year.

Throw in how they've addressed a plethora of other positions (OL, QB, skill on O, and their secondary) which all had GAPING holes, and unfortunately you can't "fix everything" in a 1-2 year window, and here's where they are.

[Ray Reed]

19 hours ago, animaltested said:

Eh, probably strongly influenced by this forums inordinate amount of Browns fans. Seems like every off season there is a strong "They are about the right the ship, turn the corner, [INSERT NEW GM/COACH HERE] is changing the culture" narrative around here. This goes back to the old forum and early oughts.

After a week 4 win last year over the Ravens that entire Browns forum was posting reminders to “go troll the Ravens forum as hard as you can”. And they did. Ok, you won a week 4 game, whatever. All is fair in love and war.

But when the Browns were essentially eliminated from the playoffs after that 2nd Steelers game, I posted “no fan base deserves that more”, and I was banned for 2 weeks.

Just can’t do it with that fan base on this website anymore 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Guess they’ve earned the benefit to troll whenever they want because their team isn’t good so they’re seen as “harmless” to the mods? Idk

[HoboRocket]

2 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

After a week 4 win last year over the Ravens that entire Browns forum was posting reminders to “go troll the Ravens forum as hard as you can”. And they did. Ok, you won a week 4 game, whatever. All is fair in love and war.

But when the Browns were essentially eliminated from the playoffs after that 2nd Steelers game, I posted “no fan base deserves that more”, and I was banned for 2 weeks.

Just can’t do it with that fan base on this website anymore 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Guess they’ve earned the benefit to troll whenever they want because their team isn’t good so they’re seen as “harmless” to the mods? Idk

I guess it's because Browns wins are rare enough that when they DO happen, it's basically a holiday, and are you really going to ban someone on a holiday?

[MWil23]

Yeah, that's 100% truthful...THAT is why you got a 2 week ban. LOL

[sp6488]

2 hours ago, DawgX said:

I'm still traumatized about Savage essentially giving you guys Haloti Ngata for free and then having to act like Babatunde Oshinowo was a nice consolation prize, haha.

At the time it was a free pick/player that you forced out of Ozzie to get the vastly superior Kamerion Wimbley.

[ET80]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

There won't ever be a party in Cleveland.

You guys got free beer for winning a game. Like, the entire city. Beer companies don't leave huge coolers laying around in every city, y'know - they did in Cleveland, though.

I'll be late to the party, but I'm confident there WILL be a party.

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

TBH, it's embarrassing and an indictment from a lot of other fanbases on just how fickle a lot of you all are (not you ET, speaking in generalities). 

TBF, I'm not dumping on Cleveland in the traditional sense - I'll acknowledge that there is some serious firepower on this team, some incredible football players at most positions. 

My issue is as follows:

- I don't believe in Baker Mayfield. I think he's good, I think he's got enough talent around him to play good football. But lordy, he turns the ball over at an alarming rate. He's got to get that under control immediately. If he doesn't, that firepower is worthless.

- There seems to be an issue with accountability in Cleveland. Looking at the last few seasons, we've seen guys getting back overexposed with commercials, guys drawing attention to their shoes and watches being worn, guys getting into major altercations on the field, etc. Individually, it's nothing serious...but when taken together, you have to ask yourself "who is the adult in the room, who is keeping them focused on football?" because as of now... I don't really know who that is. I actually think this is a culture that Jimmy Haslem set, and he's going to have to be a catalyst of change.

There's hope in Cleveland, sure - but I'll need to see some maturity coming out of that locker room before I purchase more of that Browns stock. If I can get an offseason with no Baker commercials, no Odell Beckham romps with Fashion Nova models and a renewed focus on football (and ONLY football) then I'll take notice. 

And I'll book my ticket for that big party.

[dll2000]

28 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

True, but often times, former 1st rounders either haven't lived up to the billing or have an injury history (Conklin). My point was that they're still VERY young and not that far removed from 0-16.

I hear you, but young teams can win and have.  Cowboys were very young when they made their 90s run.  Jimmy Johnson just coached them good. 

Conklin, OBJ, Landry and Hooper weren’t kicked out door for performance or injury concerns, but for price.  OBJ is a bit more complicated, but still Giants would have kept him in spite of his antics if he was cheaper.   You can’t afford those guys if you don’t have a young team.    

Oh, I don't disagree. But, he's not a statue like some of your traditional pocket passers.

My point is, they're still very young and lack depth because of how AWFUL they were 3, 4, and 5 years ago, especially with drafting. So, you take their already lack of depth at those spots, then factor in those sickness/injury concerns for every NFL team, and they're at a disadvantage because of previous ineptitude.

I think if you look around most teams these days have very poor depth.  Not just Browns.  Some teams are better at plugging in lessor players or coaching up bench players so they are ready to step in so poor depth is handled better.    

Schobert they let walk in free agency because of money (I was unhappy).

Kirksey signed a huge contract and then has been hurt the last 2-3 years, so he's not what he was (injuries) and not even close to worth what they were paying him.

Kendricks never really did anything here.

Collins had injury concerns and was playing out of position.

Avery they traded away to Philadelphia last year.

Throw in how they've addressed a plethora of other positions (OL, QB, skill on O, and their secondary) which all had GAPING holes, and unfortunately you can't "fix everything" in a 1-2 year window, and here's where they are.

ILB is a weak spot there is no question.  But if you are going to be weak at a position, that is one of better ones to be weak at.  A good DL and secondary is more important.  

All that being said do I think Browns are going to shock world and make a deep playoff run?  Not really.  Especially not this season which has a lot of X factors.     

All I am saying is they have some really talented football players on that team.  It isn’t impossible that someone could make that team work.  It could happen and it wouldn’t be a shock to me.  

If everyone were starting from scratch and got to chose their own team to coach this wouldn’t be last roster you would pick.   

 

[MWil23]

6 minutes ago, ET80 said:

My issue is as follows:

- I don't believe in Baker Mayfield.

Me either, but I've never believed in him. I ate a lot of my words with his rookie season in 2018. I was/am a huge Sam Darnold guy, but whatever.

6 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I think he's good,

That makes one of us. I think he's better than anything they've had since the early 1990's, but I believe he's a "purgatory QB". He will be good enough to always win between 5-9 games, put up some "WOW" games, and have some 4+ INT games, and basically be somewhere in that awkward range of "we can't just get rid of him but we can't re-sign him" category.

6 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I think he's got enough talent around him to play good football.

He ABSOLUTELY does. 2 Pro Bowl WR's, a pro bowl TE to go with Njoku back, and 2 Pro Bowl RBs, to go with a majorly upgraded OL. The new coaching scheme is a question mark. Not so much that the scheme is bad, but rather it's his 3rd scheme in 3 years, they have a weird COVID year for preparation, etc.

6 minutes ago, ET80 said:

But lordy, he turns the ball over at an alarming rate. He's got to get that under control immediately. If he doesn't, that firepower is worthless.

The turnovers as a rookie you could excuse/overlook because he was so good in the Red Zone, downfield passing, efficiency, and you can say "ah, he's a rookie, no big deal!" Last year, turnovers just became "the norm".

6 minutes ago, ET80 said:

- There seems to be an issue with accountability in Cleveland. Looking at the last few seasons, we've seen guys getting back overexposed with commercials, guys drawing attention to their shoes and watches being worn, guys getting into major altercations on the field, etc. Individually, it's nothing serious...but when taken together, you have to ask yourself "who is the adult in the room, who is keeping them focused on football?" because as of now... I don't really know who that is. I actually think this is a culture that Jimmy Haslem set, and he's going to have to be a catalyst of change.

Constant GM and coaching changes, Haslem's meddling personality before the last 2-3 years, the pass the buck Hue Jackson era...all of that has been a major factor. Coaches vs. GM's for "who stays/has the power" goes back to Farmer and Pettine, guys they drafted, etc.

6 minutes ago, ET80 said:

There's hope in Cleveland, sure - but I'll need to see some maturity coming out of that locker room before I purchase more of that Browns stock. If I can get an offseason with no Baker commercials, no Odell Beckham romps with Fashion Nova models and a renewed focus on football (and ONLY football) then I'll take notice. 

And I'll book my ticket for that big party.

I need to see wins. I want to see more guys shut up and produce like Nick Chubb. The dude is arguably the best rushing RB in football and he just does his job quietly and effectively. I don't mind the "talking" so much as not backing it up, and realizing that you've been the laughingstock in the league for 20+ years, so maybe make the playoffs and win a game or so in the playoffs, let alone your division, or become a serious contender...or just not a joke...before you do.

[MWil23]

6 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I hear you, but young teams can win and have.  Cowboys were very young when they made their 90s run.  Jimmy Johnson just coached them good. 

Conklin, OBJ, Landry and Hooper weren’t kicked out door for performance or injury concerns, but for price.  OBJ is a bit more complicated, but still Giants would have kept him in spite of his antics if he was cheaper.   You can’t afford those guys if you don’t have a young team.    

You said first rounders...Jarvis was a 3rd and Hooper was a 3rd.

8 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I think if you look around most teams these days have very poor depth.  Not just Browns.  Some teams are better at plugging in lessor players or coaching up bench players so they are ready to step in so poor depth is handled better.

I'm speaking more in the lines of "Hey, 3 years ago this guy couldn't have made any squad in the NFL but the Browns, and now he's starting because of injuries" depth concerns from that 0-16 point of view.

9 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

ILB is a weak spot there is no question.  But if you are going to be weak at a position, that is one of better ones to be weak at.  A good DL and secondary is more important.  

I hope you're right. Like I said, unfortunately they couldn't fix everything and had to prioritize that secondary (Ward #4 overall, Delpit and Greedy both 2nd Round) and that DL (free agency, trades, Myles).

[BleedTheClock]

The Browns have a top 3 team in terms of pure talent. Will it result in wins? Remains to be seen. But this roster is freaking loaded. If it doesn’t happen with this core, it never will. Especially if we get Clowney, who is overrated by the media, but still a very good player. 

[ET80]

40 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Guess they’ve earned the benefit to troll whenever they want because their team isn’t good so they’re seen as “harmless” to the mods? Idk

I can't specifically speak to any instance, but PM me if you get something like this again and I'll work to get it stopped.

I can't promise a banhammer, but I can promise positive action for all involved. I can't be everywhere at once, but I promise I'll do what I can.

[dll2000]

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

You said first rounders...Jarvis was a 3rd and Hooper was a 3rd.

I'm speaking more in the lines of "Hey, 3 years ago this guy couldn't have made any squad in the NFL but the Browns, and now he's starting because of injuries" depth concerns from that 0-16 point of view.

I hope you're right. Like I said, unfortunately they couldn't fix everything and had to prioritize that secondary (Ward #4 overall, Delpit and Greedy both 2nd Round) and that DL (free agency, trades, Myles).

LOL.  Okay, but Landry was a top WR FA and Hooper was number 1 available TE FA and Conklin was number 1 FA OT.   All going to same team, yours.  

Hooper is less talented than Njoku who is also coming back.    You picked up Hunt for peanuts due to scandal.   He was leading rusher in NFL before that and one of best RB receivers and playmakers he is still only 2nd best runner on your team.   

You added probably best OT in draft and OT is quickly becoming one of rarest and hardest to find positions in NFL.  

On paper, offensively, you are absolutely loaded with talent.   Baker has shown flashes and isn’t a bust yet.  Even if he is plays as a game manager you should still be able to score points in droves.  

The defense is much more questionable, but still has some dudes on it.

You should be happy and all I hear is pessimism.  Why could that be?

 

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

LOL.  Okay, but Landry was a top WR FA and Hooper was number 1 available TE FA and Conklin was number 1 FA OT.   All going to same team, yours.  

*Whispers*

We traded for Landry...not a free agent

4 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Hooper is less talented than Njoku who is also coming back.    You picked up Hunt for peanuts due to scandal.   He was leading rusher in NFL before that and one of best RB receivers and playmakers he is still only 2nd best runner on your team.   

Hooper is coming off of a Pro Bowl, and while Njoku is talented, he's been hurt and had major drop issues. He's also just 23. 

4 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

You added probably best OT in draft and OT is quickly becoming one of rarest and hardest to find positions in NFL.  

Let's hope so. Considering last year they were both AWFUL, I'd settle for "average", let alone what they should be.

4 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

On paper, offensively, you are absolutely loaded with talent.   Baker has shown flashes and isn’t a bust yet.  Even if he is plays as a game manager you should still be able to score points in droves.  

Agreed. Part of that is what he struggles with the most, which is turnovers.

4 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

The defense is much more questionable, but still has some dudes on it.

The DL is solid and the DB's have some major talent/potential. The LB corps is a disaster.

4 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

You should be happy and all I hear is pessimism.  Why could that be?

I'm firmly in the "show me" camp. Also, this is Cleveland, and we can't have good things. Throw in the division that we play in, and you have a lot more of a challenge than you would in another division. The Ravens are coming back with more talent than ever/the reigning MVP, and the Steelers should be primed to make one more run with Ben and company. If Burrow is only 75% of what he was drafted to be, the Bengals will be vastly improved as well.

Plus, also, this is CLEVELAND.

[DawgX]

In regards to Baker turning the ball over... he certainly has too much at this point in his career. But last year he had an incredible amount of bad breaks where numerous INTs were just bad luck. I think he had about 6-7 INTs that hit the receiver in both hands and just deflected into the defender. Some of those throws were bad decisions on Baker's part, but they were still passes that hit his receiver in the hands.

He may end up being a QB that does throw more INTs than you'd like as he does have a gunslinger mentality, but I'm pretty confident he'll lower them. Guess we'll see though.