Who is on your reverse MT Rushmore?

[Boarman1]

Mine list is Haynesworth (obviously), Adam Archuleta, Rod Gardner, and Brandon Lloyd

How did we give up Ryan Clark for Archuleta, who had a disappointing season

Gardner never lived up to his draft potential

Lloyd was a terrible signing, 13 td's in his first three years is great, but after he got that contract **** hit the floor. He didn't give a **** anymore

[naptownskinsfan]

Thats an interesting one.  Lots of recency bias on it, too.  

For me, this is what I would have: 

1.) Fat Albert- enough said.  Bad enough to give away the first $100 million deal, but also worse that we gave it to someone with issues all over the place.  

2.) Heath Shuler- #3 overall pick who held out before signing.  He went on to have his worst season with the Saints in 1997 and was out of the league.  Just look at his stats- he was dreadful and one of the biggest draft busts in NFL history.    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/ShulHe00.htm

3.) Michael Westbrook- only one season over 1,000 yards, punched Stephen Davis while he was standing over him in training camp and just had a miserable relationship with the fans and media.  He had a grand total of 4300 receiving yards and 26 TDs in his career.......and was a fourth overall pick. 

4.) Steve Spurrier- I put a lot of thought into if this was going to be another player.  Brandon Lloyd came to mind, as did Andre Johnson, Desmond Howard and LaVar Arrington, but I've got to put Spurrier.  From a team that's had Joe Gibbs, George Allen, Vince Lombardi, Ray Flaherty all patrol the sideline, Spurrier might be the worst of the bunch.  He was terribly out of his depth, to the point where many thought Marvin Lewis was running the team in 2002.  He had an attachment to his offense and QBs, none of which were made for the NFL at the time.  Of course, this was after Marty Schottenheimer came and went, as well as Vinny the Rat.  This goes down as one of Snyder's top missteps as an owner, so I think Spurrier aptly deserves this spot.  

[turtle28]

I love the idea of this topic! Welcome to board @Boarman1.

Just to point out something, Brandon Lloyd was traded for by Vinny Cerrato, he wasn't just ”signed.” I believe Vinny gave up a 3rd & 4th for him, which made it that much worse. But, what bothers me most about Lloyd is that the dude could play as he proved when we let him go and he went to Denver & NE. It was Gibbs who refused to play Lloyd bc he didn't practice well or something? I can't remember but it was stupid. So, I blame Gibbs for not making that work. Our passing game could've been a lot better in 2006, 2007 & maybe even beyond if Lloyd was the #2 on the outside opposite Moss & Randle El was just in the slot.

1. Albert Haynesworth for the reasons Nap said, but at the same time while Haynesworth was a disaster and lied about how hard he was going to work - he was not Reggie White like he promised - he could have been a great NT for our 3-4 for most of last decade but refused to play it but, I blame Dan & Vinny for even signing him. We had a lot of cap space going into 2009 and I remember all of us discussing back then the 3 or 4 free agents we would rather sign than to give Haynesworth QB $ and sadly, we were all right. 

One guy I remember all of us wanting was Chris Canty who went on to play 3-4 DE for the Cowboys after leaving the Giants and was a very good player. There were WRs we could have signed to help Jason Campbell develop as a more accurate  downfield passing QB, as we all know Randle El was best as purely a slot Wr and not on the outside. There were OLBs we could have signed to play opposite Rocky & Fletcher and we could have upgrades FS to make Laron purely a SS that offseason. Instead, we gave almost all of our cap room to one player it was stupid.

2. Heath Shuler - I honestly loved this pick as a 13 almost 14 year old kid, but it's so sad he didn’t develop, so he deserves to be on the list. He was the definition of happy feet in tge pocket, he was never comfortable.

3. Desmond Howard - A lot of people point to Michael Westbrook as a huge bust, and he was but they forget that Howard was the 4th overall choice in 1992 by Charley Casserly and that started Charley’s run of 5 or 6 years of awful FA signings, awful trades and awful draft picks which turned a SB franchise into a mediocre one until 1999. Howard drafted a few years before Westbrook and was supposed to be Mr. Everything out of Michigan and just like Rocket Ismail, he didn't have the size to make it as an NFL outside WR and after he was off the Redskins was almost primarily a return man.

4. Dana Stubbifield - This was a hard choice, but I have to go with Stubby here. Unlike Westbrook and some others, Stubby was a FA signing who we gave a big contract to and then he became extremely lazy, he tore his ACL and became more fat and lazy and when that happened Casserly began to overreact to find a quick fix for the position by trading for Gilbert who sat out after playing one year w/ a contract dispute & then Charley traded a 1st round pick for Dan ”Big Daddy” Wilkerson who was good, but wasn't worth giving up the high pick for, it was just overall an cluster eff of moves which ruined the team's cap & draft assets to improve in the middle of the 90s. 

People always blame Dan for firing Charley and while I don't think he should’ve fired Charley right away in 99, I can certainly understand why he did bc after we had last won the Super Bowl in 91-92, Charley & to a lesser extent Norv did an awful job w/ drafting, free agent signings and building the team for most of the decade until 99 when he/they drafted Champ & Jansen, but by then, in Snyder’s eyes the damage was done and it was too late. Dan’s problem was he hired Vinny, who was worse than Charley had been in the mid 90s.

Edited June 18, 2020 by turtle28

[MikeT14]

Great topic idea!

Albert Haynesworth, Steve Spurrier, Adam Archuleta, Heath Shuler

that's pretty good (bad) in my book. The other mentions are great too.

Anyone wanna add RG3? Or did I open a can of worms to get a thread banned that's good ?

[MikeT14]

4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

2. Heath Shuler - I honestly loved this pick as a 13 almost 14 year old kid, but it's so sad he dish develop, so he deserves to be on the list.

Check this out, I was 7 when he was drafted, and it was the start of my Redskins fandom, so I was a huge fan too. Oh boy...

[turtle28]

6 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Check this out, I was 7 when he was drafted, and it was the start of my Redskins fandom, so I was a huge fan too. Oh boy...

I did get to meet him later in life on my job which was cool when he was a congressman. He and his Chief of staff - Hayden Rogers - were two huge guys. I also meet Jon Runyan. You really don’t realize how big those football players are until you meet them in person. 

[RSkinGM]

I'll toss out Antwaan Randle El. He was serviceable but not the player he was in Pittsburgh .

Kudos to Turtle for his list . Forgot about Stubblefield. Desmond Howard -- HATED that pick the moment we made it - Traded Two 1's. 

[offbyone]

18 hours ago, Boarman1 said:

Gardner

I object.  Gardner may never have lived up to his draft position and occasionally cause something in the house to get broken because of his drops....but if we are taking a historical look he was actually one of our more productive receivers.  We have had piles and piles of crap at WR for years.  He gave us 3000 yards in 4 seasons.  That looks pretty darn good if you take a broader view.

Let me suggest a revision.  Almost identical draft position.  More receiver friendly NFL.  Pile of crap.  Josh Doctson.

[MikeT14]

1 hour ago, offbyone said:

but if we are taking a historical look he was actually one of our more productive receivers. 

Sad, but true.

[naptownskinsfan]

You could easily put Howard on the list, but with how Westbrook treated the fans, media and his own teammates, he makes the list over Howard easily.  

I'm also confused at some of you saying Archuleta.  While some recency bias does play into this, are you really that upset over the signing?  I must not be remembering how bad he was, or what he did to piss off most of you. 

[RSkinGM]

Archuleta. I don't have the vocabulary to describe his ...awfulness .

[MikeT14]

24 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

You could easily put Howard on the list, but with how Westbrook treated the fans, media and his own teammates, he makes the list over Howard easily.  

I'm also confused at some of you saying Archuleta.  While some recency bias does play into this, are you really that upset over the signing?  I must not be remembering how bad he was, or what he did to piss off most of you. 

Highest paid safety in NFL history at the time. Lasted one season.

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, RSkinGM said:

I'll toss out Antwaan Randle El. He was serviceable but not the player he was in Pittsburgh .

Kudos to Turtle for his list . Forgot about Stubblefield. Desmond Howard -- HATED that pick the moment we made it - Traded Two 1's. 

Randle El actually was the exact player he was in Pittsburgh, the issue was he was forced to be an outside WR for us when he was just a slot guy and a return man in Pitt. 

The issue we had was that when Vinny traded for Brandon Lloyd, he was supposed to be the #2 opposite Moss but Gibbs didn't like how Lloyd practiced so, Gibbs didn't play him despite the fact that he may have been our most physically talented WR. Outside of Gibbs not pounding the table for Aaron Rodgers and falling in love w/ and trading up for Jason Campbell instead, and not re-signing Clark in 2005 & agreeing w/ Vinny to sign Archuleta instead, Gibbs refusal to play Brandon Lloyd was probably the 3rd most thing I was upset w/ him about during Gibbs 2.0. It was stupid not to play Lloyd and probably cost us some points in the passing game and even wins overall.

I mean we were a run first offense, and Randle El was usually good for around 50 receptions & 3 or 4 TDs and he was the 3rd option after Moss & Cooley.

Edited June 18, 2020 by turtle28

[turtle28]

9 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Highest paid safety in NFL history at the time. Lasted one season.

Agreed, we overpaid to get him and at the same time we lost a future pro bowl safety in Ryan Clark at the same time. It was very arguably the worst decision for our team of last decade outside of overpaying for Haynesworth and just signing Haynesworth altogether when we could have signed 3 or 4 good free agents for the $ that we gave Haynesworth.

[ovfd55]

For the amount of the ole ball coach I've seen shocked Bruce Allen hasn't been on a list with how bad we hate him