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Who is on your reverse MT Rushmore?


Boarman1

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16 hours ago, ovfd55 said:

For the amount of the ole ball coach I've seen shocked Bruce Allen hasn't been on a list with how bad we hate him

I think most of us went the player route. I know I did but then my post did morph into how bad Casserly was in rebuilding the team in the 90s after we had won our Superbowl in 91-92.

If I had to go execs from the 4 worst, I’d go:

1. Bruce Allen

2. Vinny Cerrato

3. Mike Shanahan

4. Charley Casserly

Bruce was the worst, but our draft picks weren't the worst when he was the team President. The issue with Bruce was he wouldn't spend $ in free agency except on Josh Norman & DJAX and a few over the hill vets like Jason Hatcher to help with building the team and he didn't believe in keeping enough of the good young players we drafted and developed in his tenure. He went cheap in free agency and that showed in our record for the most part as we were at best mediocre and three times amongst the 5 worst in the league from 2010-2019.

The way he handled the Kirk Cousins situation has set our franchise back 3 years at the least, maybe more depending on how Haskins develops & if he does over the next two seasons. Our team right now should have Kirk Cousins throwing to DJax & Crowder with Terry McLaurin starting opposite DJAX.

Our D should still have Breeland under contract as well and we should've kept Preston Smith and if we had, would we have traded up to draft Sweat last year? I'd say probably not.

Vinny was a screw-up w/ overpaying players, trading draft picks for vets - which Allen did also to get McNabb & Jamaal Brown but, obviously Vinny was worse. Vinny did not value mid-round picks which as we've learned this decade can be used for depth and some of them will develop into starters.

I already covered Charley in another post.

Mike Shanahan has not been a better than average HC & he's been a poor executive w/ mostly bad draft picks & FA signings since John Elway & Terrell Davis delivered back to back Super Bowl’s for him in the late 90s when I was in high school and now, I’m 41. The hiring of Shanahan was sadly how I was worried it would go in my worst of the worst thoughts which I rarely conveyed in 2009-10 when we hired him. I was hoping he would've worked out but, his inability to handle players well - especially QBS - was always an issue for him dating back to Denver. He did a poor job in evaluating and developing talent in Denver & in DC - for the most part - except for running backs.

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14 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Great topic idea!

Albert Haynesworth, Steve Spurrier, Adam Archuleta, Heath Shuler

that's pretty good (bad) in my book. The other mentions are great too.

Anyone wanna add RG3? Or did I open a can of worms to get a thread banned that's good :P?

I love RG3 and I love what he did for Washington, bad luck with injuries

Also Snyder poisoned his mind about becoming a true pocket passer, when he really wasn't one

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6 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I think most of us went the player route. I know I did but then my post did morph into how bad Casserly was in rebuilding the team in the 90s after we had won our Superbowl in 91-92.

If I had to go execs from the 4 worst, I’d go:

1. Bruce Allen

2. Vinny Cerrato

3. Mike Shanahan

4. Charley Casserly

Bruce was the worst, but our draft picks weren't the worst when he was the team President. The issue with Bruce was he wouldn't spend $ in free agency except on Josh Norman & DJAX and a few over the hill vets like Jason Hatcher to help with building the team and he didn't believe in keeping enough of the good young players we drafted and developed in his tenure. He went cheap in free agency and that showed in our record for the most part as we were at best mediocre and twice amongst the worst in the league from 2010-2019.

The way he handled the Kirk Cousins situation has set our franchise back 3 years at the least, maybe more depending on how Haskins develops & if he does over the next two seasons. Our team right now should have Kirk Cousins throwing to DJax & Crowder with Terry McLaurin starting opposite DJAX.

Our D should still have Breeland under contract as well and we should've kept Preston Smith and if we had, would we have traded up to draft Sweat last year? I'd say probably not.

Vinny was a screw-up w/ overpaying players, trading draft picks for vets - which Allen did also to get McNabb & Jamaal Brown but, obviously Vinny was worse. Vinny did not value mid-round picks which as we've learned this decade can be used for depth and some of them will develop into starters.

I already covered Charley in another post.

Mike Shanahan has not been a better than average HC & he's been a poor executive w/ mostly bad draft picks & FA signings since John Elway & Terrell Davis delivered back to back Super Bowl’s for him in the late 90s when I was in high school and now, I’m 41. The hiring of Shanahan was sadly how I was worried it would go in my worst of the worst thoughts which I rarely conveyed in 2009-10 when we hired him. I was hoping he would've worked out but, his inability to handle players well - especially QBS - was always an issue for him dating back to Denver. He did a poor job in evaluating and developing talent in Denver & in DC - for the most part - except for running backs.

I love this take, I agree Bruce Allen is the worst front office exec

I like this take, I actually didn't mind spending big money for DJAX because he always delivered

 

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9 hours ago, offbyone said:

I object.  Gardner may never have lived up to his draft position and occasionally cause something in the house to get broken because of his drops....but if we are taking a historical look he was actually one of our more productive receivers.  We have had piles and piles of crap at WR for years.  He gave us 3000 yards in 4 seasons.  That looks pretty darn good if you take a broader view.

Let me suggest a revision.  Almost identical draft position.  More receiver friendly NFL.  Pile of crap.  Josh Doctson.

I'm still young so I don't know all of the Redskins histories especially the 90s. I know about the 91 season because I always watch the documentary

I choose Gardner because I briefly remember him as a kid, got his jersey, but he never made any Pro Bowls

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On 6/18/2020 at 10:04 PM, Boarman1 said:

I love this take, I agree Bruce Allen is the worst front office exec

I like this take, I actually didn't mind spending big money for DJAX because he always delivered

 

Yeah, I loved the DJax signing, hated the Josh Norman signing. My point was that Bruce didn’t spend enough in free agency to field a competitive team each year.

Just for example, if in 2016 he and McClougan (more McCloughan) had retained Morris still for our running game, our team would’ve been better, and if he had spent more on defense from 2013-2019 our team would’ve been better. Our D mostly sucked bc of a lack of talent all decade - except 2011 - & that’s bc Bruce wouldn’t spend on a few high priced FAs to make the D better. We literally didn’t have the talent to field even an average D all decade except 2011.

Then, in 2017 we should’ve re-signed DJax or Garçon and signed Peterson as our RB and if we had them plus added better players for our D then, I think we make the playoffs that year too.
 

When Kirk was here, we should’ve been a playoff team - at least a wildcard team every year from 2015-2018 and the main reason we weren’t is bc Bruce & to a lesser extend McCloughan in 2016, didn’t build a team that was playoff caliber in every aspect, you can’t get to the playoffs consistently if you have a great passing game but every other aspect of your team is below average.
 

Bruce never spent money to make the team complete on both sides of the ball and obviously he refused to keep Kirk which was idiotic, we gave a franchise QB away - no one ever does that - that makes him the worst, beyond all his off the field screw ups.

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On 6/18/2020 at 4:01 PM, turtle28 said:

I think most of us went the player route. I know I did but then my post did morph into how bad Casserly was in rebuilding the team in the 90s after we had won our Superbowl in 91-92.

If I had to go execs from the 4 worst, I’d go:

1. Bruce Allen

2. Vinny Cerrato

3. Mike Shanahan

4. Charley Casserly

Bruce was the worst, but our draft picks weren't the worst when he was the team President. The issue with Bruce was he wouldn't spend $ in free agency except on Josh Norman & DJAX and a few over the hill vets like Jason Hatcher to help with building the team and he didn't believe in keeping enough of the good young players we drafted and developed in his tenure. He went cheap in free agency and that showed in our record for the most part as we were at best mediocre and three times amongst the 5 worst in the league from 2010-2019.

The way he handled the Kirk Cousins situation has set our franchise back 3 years at the least, maybe more depending on how Haskins develops & if he does over the next two seasons. Our team right now should have Kirk Cousins throwing to DJax & Crowder with Terry McLaurin starting opposite DJAX.

Our D should still have Breeland under contract as well and we should've kept Preston Smith and if we had, would we have traded up to draft Sweat last year? I'd say probably not.

Vinny was a screw-up w/ overpaying players, trading draft picks for vets - which Allen did also to get McNabb & Jamaal Brown but, obviously Vinny was worse. Vinny did not value mid-round picks which as we've learned this decade can be used for depth and some of them will develop into starters.

I already covered Charley in another post.

Mike Shanahan has not been a better than average HC & he's been a poor executive w/ mostly bad draft picks & FA signings since John Elway & Terrell Davis delivered back to back Super Bowl’s for him in the late 90s when I was in high school and now, I’m 41. The hiring of Shanahan was sadly how I was worried it would go in my worst of the worst thoughts which I rarely conveyed in 2009-10 when we hired him. I was hoping he would've worked out but, his inability to handle players well - especially QBS - was always an issue for him dating back to Denver. He did a poor job in evaluating and developing talent in Denver & in DC - for the most part - except for running backs.

Can't argue with 3 of those. But not sure I'd put Casserly in the same breath as those 3. He was, in large part, responsible for that '91 team.

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On 6/25/2020 at 10:58 AM, Thaiphoon said:

Can't argue with 3 of those. But not sure I'd put Casserly in the same breath as those 3. He was, in large part, responsible for that '91 team.

Yes, somewhat but Casserly also inherited a lot of the 91-92 team. After that when Bethard’s team was totally gone, Casserly struggled to build a better than avg team for most of the 90s.

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4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Yes, somewhat but Casserly also inherited a lot of the 91-92 team. After that when Bethard’s team was totally gone, Casserly struggled to build a better than avg team for most of the 90s.

Um, he inherited a lot. But he also built a lot. The overall depth as well as the defense (7 of the 11 starters) on that team was pretty much Casserly's doing. Some of his more notable acquisitions that helped us that year (you might notice some of the names):

Martin Mayhew, Fred Stokes, Danny Copeland, Mark Adickes, Brad Edwards, Ron Middleton, J. Rutledge, Bobby Wilson, Matt Millen, Tim Johnson, Eric Williams, Andre Collins, Jumpy Geathers, Mark Schlereth, Ricky Ervins, Brian Mitchell. 

He also drafted Keenan McCardell (who didn't make the team)

Casserly struggled afterward because of the way the rest of the Front Office (re: owners) went about acquiring talent. They had a hard time scrambling to adjust to the new normal of true free agency and didn't want to open wallets. He had a few poor drafts in the middle of the decade (with a few decent players scattered throughout them), but hardly the complete wasteland (yes, that's hyperbole) that you typically ascribe to him. He wisely played the Sean Gilbert scenario into 2 first rounders and set us up to be able to draft Chris Samuels and Arrington in 2000, right after he drafted Jon Jansen and Champ Bailey.

So in no way would I put him on the reverse Mt. Rushmore for the Redskins. More deserving people belong there than the guy who was the architect of the greatest NFL team ('91 Redskins). 

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42 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Um, he inherited a lot. But he also built a lot. The overall depth as well as the defense (7 of the 11 starters) on that team was pretty much Casserly's doing. Some of his more notable acquisitions that helped us that year (you might notice some of the names):

Martin Mayhew, Fred Stokes, Danny Copeland, Mark Adickes, Brad Edwards, Ron Middleton, J. Rutledge, Bobby Wilson, Matt Millen, Tim Johnson, Eric Williams, Andre Collins, Jumpy Geathers, Mark Schlereth, Ricky Ervins, Brian Mitchell. 

He also drafted Keenan McCardell (who didn't make the team)

Casserly struggled afterward because of the way the rest of the Front Office (re: owners) went about acquiring talent. They had a hard time scrambling to adjust to the new normal of true free agency and didn't want to open wallets. He had a few poor drafts in the middle of the decade (with a few decent players scattered throughout them), but hardly the complete wasteland (yes, that's hyperbole) that you typically ascribe to him. He wisely played the Sean Gilbert scenario into 2 first rounders and set us up to be able to draft Chris Samuels and Arrington in 2000, right after he drafted Jon Jansen and Champ Bailey.

So in no way would I put him on the reverse Mt. Rushmore for the Redskins. More deserving people belong there than the guy who was the architect of the greatest NFL team ('91 Redskins). 

I’d say he also paid too much for Brad Johnson. I believe it was a 1st, 2nd & 3rd. 
 

He definitely did some great things in the late 80s & early 90s. I’m sure there’s someone worse I should’ve put on instead of him from the front office.
 

I guess I should’ve said George Preston Marshall. He was awful.

Edited by turtle28
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On 6/19/2020 at 7:51 AM, turtle28 said:

Yeah, I loved the DJax signing, hated the Josh Norman signing. My point was that Bruce didn’t spend enough in free agency to field a competitive team each year.

Just for example, if in 2016 he and McClougan (more McCloughan) had retained Morris still for our running game, our team would’ve been better, and if he had spent more on defense from 2013-2019 our team would’ve been better. Our D mostly sucked bc of a lack of talent all decade - except 2011 - & that’s bc Bruce wouldn’t spend on a few high priced FAs to make the D better. We literally didn’t have the talent to field even an average D all decade except 2011.

Then, in 2017 we should’ve re-signed DJax or Garçon and signed Peterson as our RB and if we had them plus added better players for our D then, I think we make the playoffs that year too.
 

When Kirk was here, we should’ve been a playoff team - at least a wildcard team every year from 2015-2018 and the main reason we weren’t is bc Bruce & to a lesser extend McCloughan in 2016, didn’t build a team that was playoff caliber in every aspect, you can’t get to the playoffs consistently if you have a great passing game but every other aspect of your team is below average.
 

Bruce never spent money to make the team complete on both sides of the ball and obviously he refused to keep Kirk which was idiotic, we gave a franchise QB away - no one ever does that - that makes him the worst, beyond all his off the field screw ups.

I love this take, I think Bruce Allen went to the far extreme of not signing free agents. Allen went the opposite direction of what Snyder did in the early 2000s

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