You Get One Move

[beardown3231]

6 hours ago, Sugashane said:

So my wife has an uncle who comes over every 2-3 weeks to jump in while we play guitar and cookout. This guy hates Dak, and said if the Bears would give 2 1sts for him he'd pay for Dak's ticket to Chicago. 

 

I'd trade that for him 100 times out of 100. Lol. Dude isn't elite but still better than anything we've had in my lifetime. 

On one hand he hates Prescott which in turn leads me to believe he thinks Prescott sucks, but on the other he would want Dallas to get two 1's

Huh?

[dll2000]

6 hours ago, Sugashane said:

So my wife has an uncle who comes over every 2-3 weeks to jump in while we play guitar and cookout. This guy hates Dak, and said if the Bears would give 2 1sts for him he'd pay for Dak's ticket to Chicago. 

 

I'd trade that for him 100 times out of 100. Lol. Dude isn't elite but still better than anything we've had in my lifetime. 

You will get what we had with Cutler.  Give up a bunch for a decent to good player, but take him out of a good situation and he will crash down to average.

It is one thing to do it for a rookie when you can surround him with talent, but giving up a bunch and then paying him will put you on mediocrity treadmill.

 

[dll2000]

19 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

On one hand he hates Prescott which in turn leads me to believe he thinks Prescott sucks, but on the other he would want Dallas to get two 1's

Huh?

Exactly.  Cowboys are divided on Dak like Bears fans were with Cutler.  Some think he is bees knees and point to stats and others answer why are we 8-8 then?

[beardown3231]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Exactly.  Cowboys are divided on Dak like Bears fans were with Cutler.  Some think he is bees knees and point to stats and others answer why are we 8-8 then?

I just don't understand suga's relative. Like, if he hates him it's probably because he thinks he sucks. If that's the case and he was another GM, would *he* give up two 1's for a QB who sucks? 

[topwop1]

On 6/21/2020 at 2:19 AM, JustAnotherFan said:

That would be the worst case scenario. He blows up in a contract year and does enough convince the regime that he's worth investing in. Then we're stuck with a jay Cutler situation for ten years all over again. 

Or you know it could be the best case scenario...that he finally lives up to his potential and plays at a sustainable and consistently high level going forward for his career?

I don;t know about you guys but I'm tired of going through this hypothetical process every few years to find that "next" QB.  It's a vicious cycle.  

Mitch playing really well this coming season is truly the best case scenario for everyone.

 

[topwop1]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

You will get what we had with Cutler.  Give up a bunch for a decent to good player, but take him out of a good situation and he will crash down to average.

It is one thing to do it for a rookie when you can surround him with talent, but giving up a bunch and then paying him will put you on mediocrity treadmill.

 

That's most QB's in this league not named Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, etc. and to be be fair we haven't even seen Mahomes in a bad situation yet. He's been surrounded by great talent his first 2 seasons as a starter.

Just look at Brady this past season in NE.  He struggled and it was because for the first time in a long time, he didn't have good weapons at the WR or TE position and his OL was below average.

A good situation matters highly for most if not all successful NFL QB's.

I will also add that Cutler had all the talent in the world to be great but unfortunately he didn't live up to that due to a mix of being a stubborn jackass that rubbed a lot of teammates and coaches the wrong way and also not having good enough of a supporting cast around him for most of his Bears career.

Edited June 22, 2020 by topwop1

[Sugashane]

3 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

On one hand he hates Prescott which in turn leads me to believe he thinks Prescott sucks, but on the other he would want Dallas to get two 1's

Huh?

Idk. Jimmy G got a load of picks including 2-3 2nd rounders with almost no playing time so I can see how he wants to "swindle" the Bears. Maybe he's just trolling me because he knows I'm not expecting a ton from Tru. He did say hell know to trading Tru for Dak straight up though. Lol. 

 

3 hours ago, dll2000 said:

You will get what we had with Cutler.  Give up a bunch for a decent to good player, but take him out of a good situation and he will crash down to average.

It is one thing to do it for a rookie when you can surround him with talent, but giving up a bunch and then paying him will put you on mediocrity treadmill.

 

"Average" would be one of the best QBs in Chicagos history. Lol

 

Honestly I'm all for selling out for a rookie QB in 2021, I've supported that heavily with few exceptions. Of course you call to try and get Lawrence or Fields but without being a top 10 pick the chances are low to even be considered. But I'm definitely intrigued by Newman, Lance, and Purdy.

Newman is a physical specimen with upside. Lance runs a pro style system and has physical tools (ignore the ridiculous TD/INT ratio, that wouldnt have happened with better compeition), Purdy looks like an Alex Smith clone, and someone else will pop out of the woodwork too. Plenty to look forward to and see who to hopefully take over after Tru's tenure (likely) ends this year.

 

 

[dll2000]

3 hours ago, topwop1 said:

That's most QB's in this league not named Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, etc. and to be be fair we haven't even seen Mahomes in a bad situation yet. He's been surrounded by great talent his first 2 seasons as a starter.

Just look at Brady this past season in NE.  He struggled and it was because for the first time in a long time, he didn't have good weapons at the WR or TE position and his OL was below average.

A good situation matters highly for most if not all successful NFL QB's.

I will also add that Cutler had all the talent in the world to be great but unfortunately he didn't live up to that due to a mix of being a stubborn jackass that rubbed a lot of teammates and coaches the wrong way and also not having good enough of a supporting cast around him for most of his Bears career.

Mahomes displays playmaking ability and arm strength that far outstrips Dak.  He is accurate from like 65 yards.   

Everyone needs talent around them to win, but Mahomes talent is evident regardless of who is around him now.  He needed coaching to get there, but he is there now and  there is no putting that genie back in bottle.  

Brady is 42 years old and his offense absolutely sucked talent wise and they had a ton of injuries and they still went 12-4 in a down year.   A record from two years ago we are still celebrating.   Almost any one other Belichick and Brady  is drafting in top 10 with that offense.   

A banged up Edelman and Dorsett at WR, an absolute crap O Line with Wynn hurt, Matt Lacrosse at TE, a banged up Sony Michelle and White at RB as probably his best weapon.   Bears offensive was more talented (leaving QBs out of it).   

Brady had Randy Moss after a year he sucked so bad for Raiders no one really wanted him and proceeded to set a ton of offensive records and were a heartbeat from completing an undefeated season.  They scored nearly every possession for an entire season.

Give Belichick and Patriots Dallas roster last year with Brady at QB and I can tell you they would have have been way better than 8-8.  They may have won the SB again.

I would argue Mahomes probably wins SB last year with Dallas roster too.   

 

 

 

 

[beardown3231]

2 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Idk. Jimmy G got a load of picks including 2-3 2nd rounders with almost no playing time so I can see how he wants to "swindle" the Bears. Maybe he's just trolling me because he knows I'm not expecting a ton from Tru. He did say hell know to trading Tru for Dak straight up though. Lol. 

 

"Average" would be one of the best QBs in Chicagos history. Lol

 

Honestly I'm all for selling out for a rookie QB in 2021, I've supported that heavily with few exceptions. Of course you call to try and get Lawrence or Fields but without being a top 10 pick the chances are low to even be considered. But I'm definitely intrigued by Newman, Lance, and Purdy.

Newman is a physical specimen with upside. Lance runs a pro style system and has physical tools (ignore the ridiculous TD/INT ratio, that wouldnt have happened with better compeition), Purdy looks like an Alex Smith clone, and someone else will pop out of the woodwork too. Plenty to look forward to and see who to hopefully take over after Tru's tenure (likely) ends this year.

 

 

I think Prescott WOULD get two 1's in a trade. My point is, your friend thinks he SUCKS so if he SUCKS why would he expect two 1's?

Edited June 22, 2020 by beardown3231

[Sugashane]

3 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

I think Prescott WOULD get two 1's in a trade. My point is, your friend thinks he SUCKS so if he SUCKS why would he expect two 1's?

He absolutely would, I'd wager more than that even. 

That's why I think he believes the Bears would be "swindled". He knows Dak is better then Tru and the Bears historically are laughable at drafting and developing them. Maybe he thinks DAL can just plug and play QBs. They had an undrafted Romo and then a supplemental 4th both be franchise QBs, Jerry MUST just have a gift for QBs, or maybe he thinks their system is responsible for all the success. I hate Jerry mostly due to his loud and constant mancrushing over him. 

 

Regardless, I'm not going to have to deal with him until the 4th of July, so I'm not seeking him out to ask. 

[JAF-N72EX]

14 hours ago, topwop1 said:

Or you know it could be the best case scenario...that he finally lives up to his potential and plays at a sustainable and consistently high level going forward for his career?

I don;t know about you guys but I'm tired of going through this hypothetical process every few years to find that "next" QB.  It's a vicious cycle.  

Mitch playing really well this coming season is truly the best case scenario for everyone.

We're not only talking about Mitch just playing well. We're talking about Mitch being MVP of the league. Different levels there.

I'm tired of looking for a QB too. But I'm even more tired of settling for mediocrity at the position too only HOPING they reach their potential all because they look a tad bit better than what we as Bears fans are accustomed to seeing. I'm tired of settling with players like Jim Miller, Grossman, and Cutler.  All this does is set your franchise back for YEARS.

Even if Mitch played well enough to earn a MVP,  it would take alot more to convince me that the season was more of an anomaly than it is a true projection going forward. And I'm old school. I still believe it takes 5 years to see what you truly have in a QB. But only IF said QB has given me enough of a reason to give him that long of a leash and Mitch does not fall into that category. Mitch has shown me enough at this point to believe that his ceiling is a high-end career backup QB and his career average projection is equal to a Jacoby Brissett type. 

But Mitch isn't the answer--even if he did win MVP. It's best we cut our losses now and take another shot in the 2021 draft rather than spending big money and being stuck with another average -at-best QB for the next decade.

Not too mention, if Mitch did win MVP then we most likely do not win the SB either because MVP's don't usually make it to the Superbowl at all.....so that's NOT the best case scenario either. 

Basically what I'm saying is. If Mitch won the MVP, it would not be his norm. It would be disastrous. Because Pace would throw a party--no scratch that--he would throw a festival just to throw it back in the face of every critic, and this would lead to him signing Mitch to a long-term 30 million dollar a year deal and we would be stuck with another mediocre QB for the next decade all because he caught lighting in a bottle. 

I'm sorry, but I actually want proven reliable stability at the QB position instead of the same old banking on "what if potential" BS.  

[dll2000]

15 hours ago, Sugashane said:

He absolutely would, I'd wager more than that even. 

That's why I think he believes the Bears would be "swindled". He knows Dak is better then Tru and the Bears historically are laughable at drafting and developing them. Maybe he thinks DAL can just plug and play QBs. They had an undrafted Romo and then a supplemental 4th both be franchise QBs, Jerry MUST just have a gift for QBs, or maybe he thinks their system is responsible for all the success. I hate Jerry mostly due to his loud and constant mancrushing over him. 

 

Regardless, I'm not going to have to deal with him until the 4th of July, so I'm not seeking him out to ask. 

I'm not giving 2 1's AND paying Dak.  I think Cutler is better than Dak or even with him.  

 

9 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

We're not only talking about Mitch just playing well. We're talking about Mitch being MVP of the league. Different levels there.

I'm tired of looking for a QB too. But I'm even more tired of settling for mediocrity at the position too only HOPING they reach their potential all because they look a tad bit better than what we as Bears fans are accustomed to seeing. I'm tired of settling with players like Jim Miller, Grossman, and Cutler.  All this does is set your franchise back for YEARS.

Even if Mitch played well enough to earn a MVP,  it would take alot more to convince me that the season was more of an anomaly than it is a true projection going forward. And I'm old school. I still believe it takes 5 years to see what you truly have in a QB. But only IF said QB has given me enough of a reason to give him that long of a leash and Mitch does not fall into that category. Mitch has shown me enough at this point to believe that his ceiling is a high-end career backup QB and his career average projection is equal to a Jacoby Brissett type. 

But Mitch isn't the answer--even if he did win MVP. It's best we cut our losses now and take another shot in the 2021 draft rather than spending big money and being stuck with another average -at-best QB for the next decade.

Not too mention, if Mitch did win MVP then we most likely do not win the SB either because MVP's don't usually make it to the Superbowl at all.....so that's NOT the best case scenario either. 

Basically what I'm saying is. If Mitch won the MVP, it would not be his norm. It would be disastrous. Because Pace would throw a party--no scratch that--he would throw a festival just to throw it back in the face of every critic, and this would lead to him signing Mitch to a long-term 30 million dollar a year deal and we would be stuck with another mediocre QB for the next decade all because he caught lighting in a bottle. 

I'm sorry, but I actually want proven reliable stability at the QB position instead of the same old banking on "what if potential" BS.  

People live in moment.  I guarantee you if MT played well enough during an entire season to win MVP - nearly every Bears fan would be on MT train.  We haven't had that level of QB play in 60 years or whenever Sid Luckman last played.  

That is months of sustained excellent play, very hard to do.  Not a hot playoff run.  

Its just human nature.

Now would they put him up there with Mahomes and elite QBs and totally break bank after one great season?   No.   But every Bears fan. would want him and he would get paid.

Is that going to happen?  Not bloody likely.   But possible I guess as all things are possible.  

I think Covid makes whole season kinda weird or at least it is looking that way now.   Media is like a dog with a bone with this thing as they are in any crisis and a lot of people are still really scared (not saying it is without reason - but media is almost never voice of reason - they are voice of panic and keeping people there as long as possible).

Football is played right in middle of flu season.   People are still kind of freaked out and few people get really sick in summer months.   Going to be a long late fall and winter.

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by dll2000

[Sugashane]

3 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I'm not giving 2 1's AND paying Dak.  I think Cutler is better than Dak or even with him.  

 

People live in moment.  I guarantee you if MT played well enough during an entire season to win MVP - nearly every Bears fan would be on MT train.  We haven't had that level of QB play in 60 years or whenever Sid Luckman last played.  

That is months of sustained excellent play, very hard to do.  Not a hot playoff run.  

Its just human nature.

Now would they put him up there with Mahomes and elite QBs and totally break bank after one great season?   No.   But every Bears fan. would want him and he would get paid.

Is that going to happen?  Not bloody likely.   But possible I guess as all things are possible.  

I think Covid makes whole season kinda weird or at least it is looking that way now.   Media is like a dog with a bone with this thing as they are in any crisis and a lot of people are still really scared (not saying it is without reason - but media is almost never voice of reason - they are voice of panic and keeping people there as long as possible).

Football is played right in middle of flu season.   People are still kind of freaked out and few people get really sick in summer months.   Going to be a long late fall and winter.

 

 

 

Oof. I have to disagree with you there. I'm not really sure what Jay was absolutely better at than Dak. He had a significantly stronger arm but that did little to aid him overall. Put the beat Jay out there on the Cowboys and I don't think he matches up with Dak, he'd likely throw them out of a few games too, on top of riding the pine at least 1 game every season. Dak is sniffing at the top 10 QB, after leaving DEN I'm not certain Jay was at any time in his career. 

 

If Tru had that big of a season to me you have to still franchise him.  Maybe twice to see if he can replicate production in back to back years for once. 

[dll2000]

Just now, Sugashane said:

Oof. I have to disagree with you there. I'm not really sure what Jay was absolutely better at than Dak. He had a significantly stronger arm but that did little to aid him overall. Put the beat Jay out there on the Cowboys and I don't think he matches up with Dak, he'd likely throw them out of a few games too, on top of riding the pine at least 1 game every season. Dak is sniffing at the top 10 QB, after leaving DEN I'm not certain Jay was at any time in his career. 

 

If Tru had that big of a season to me you have to still franchise him.  Maybe twice to see if he can replicate production in back to back years for once. 

I think Dak is a fool's gold.  A player with good numbers that is just average to good.

Team is more loaded offensively than it has been since 90s so that narrative will continue.  

To me it is like arguing Emmitt Smith is greatest RB of all time.  He wasn't close IMO.  He is still good, but situation matters.

Remember when Elway went down during SB winning years and back up QB came in and played just about as good and Shannon Sharpe was like the offense is a Ferrai just don't crash it?   Situation.

 

 

[JAF-N72EX]

15 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Oof. I have to disagree with you there. I'm not really sure what Jay was absolutely better at than Dak. He had a significantly stronger arm but that did little to aid him overall. Put the beat Jay out there on the Cowboys and I don't think he matches up with Dak, he'd likely throw them out of a few games too, on top of riding the pine at least 1 game every season. Dak is sniffing at the top 10 QB, after leaving DEN I'm not certain Jay was at any time in his career. 

 

If Tru had that big of a season to me you have to still franchise him.  Maybe twice to see if he can replicate production in back to back years for once. 

Gotta ride with Suga on this one on both accounts. 

Cutler was in no way better than Dak is. As Suga said, he may have had a stronger arm but that's about it. And that strong arm doesn't mean anything when it's as erratic as Cutler's was. 

I also agree 100% that if Mitch were to have an MVP season then you have to give him the Kirk Cousins treatment. In fact, I wouldn't be opposed to trading him and seeing what we can get for him in exchange. But that just shows my lack of faith in him is all.