Patriots fined and docked draft pick for sideline filming incident

[TecmoSuperJoe]

 

5 hours ago, lancerman said:

I’m going to save you and stop responding to you because it’s too easy for me and you are foundering trying to save face. Bye keyboard warrior, I wish you well. 

 

5 hours ago, Daniel said:

If I say I'm sorry, can we keep debating for about 49 more pages?

[KManX89]

7 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

edit: also find the continual reference of losing a third round (top 100) draft pick as a “slap on the wrist” funny but hey...not like Belichick himself thought them important enough to make 3 picks in that round last year...oh wait nvm

I don't know, losing a 3rd round pick for the 7th time caught cheating, and 4th time caught illegally filming, not even counting the muting headsets and stealing playbooks, pretty much amounts to a slap on the wrist to me.

If this were any other league, they'd be given the death penalty by now. Hell, the NCAA would've given them the death penalty a long time ago.

[Bobby816]

So players when they get in trouble multiple times get harsher penalties. But it doesn't apply to teams? BS. NE should be getting WAY worse penalties than what they get for constantly cheating for a very long time now.

[BobbyPhil1781]

9 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

So players when they get in trouble multiple times get harsher penalties. But it doesn't apply to teams? BS. NE should be getting WAY worse penalties than what they get for constantly cheating for a very long time now.

Seems to me that maybe the NFL doesn't think this is a very big deal like I've suggested (no, not a Pats fan). Seems like a "we've got to punish them for publicity to avoid backlash" punishment. If you believe differently that's fine though, obviously it's just an opinionI. If you think the NFL just loves and favors the Patriots, there's a group of other conspiracy theorists who would enjoy your company ie Raiders fans thinking the NFL is out to get them and has been for over 50 years and also the one guy who thinks the NFL purposely wanted the Panthers to lose their SB game lol. I'm sure there's many, many more also

[Daniel]

10 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

So players when they get in trouble multiple times get harsher penalties. But it doesn't apply to teams? BS. NE should be getting WAY worse penalties than what they get for constantly cheating for a very long time now.

I don’t disagree, but just to play Devil’s advocate:  A team is comprised of more than 100 people, and there could be multiple bad actors, even in one incident. Plus, the makeup of a team is in constant transition, in players, coaches, personnel, and front office. You could argue that unless the specific actors are the same, it’d be bad precedent to punish a “team” more severely for different bad actors.

 I’d be mad if a Jeffery Simmons got a steeper penalty for hitting someone late because Haynesworth stomped a guy a bunch of years ago.

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, JTagg7754 said:

Seems to me that maybe the NFL doesn't think this is a very big deal like I've suggested (no, not a Pats fan). Seems like a "we've got to punish them for publicity to avoid backlash" punishment. If you believe differently that's fine though, obviously it's just an opinionI. If you think the NFL just loves and favors the Patriots, there's a group of other conspiracy theorists who would enjoy your company ie Raiders fans thinking the NFL is out to get them and has been for over 50 years and also the one guy who thinks the NFL purposely wanted the Panthers to lose their SB game lol. I'm sure there's many, many more also

No conspiracy theory IMO. I just think its ridiculous to not give them harsher penalties each time they cheat like players get worse penalties as there penalties akrew.

It's also setting a precedent. I'll use even my own team as an example... how if the Jets cheat can we get any harsher penalties than these small slaps on the wrist like NE has gotten? Its saying... why not cheat? 1.1mill and a 3rd rounder is minimal for an organization. If i'm a HC and organization I'd start cheating ASAP bc these BS penalties thrown down on NE. 

[Bobby816]

4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I don’t disagree, but just to play Devil’s advocate:  A team is comprised of more than 100 people, and there could be multiple bad actors, even in one incident. Plus, the makeup of a team is in constant transition, in players, coaches, personnel, and front office. You could argue that unless the specific actors are the same, it’d be bad precedent to punish a “team” more severely for different bad actors.

 I’d be mad if a Jeffery Simmons got a steeper penalty for hitting someone late because Haynesworth stomped a guy a bunch of years ago.

But the top brass at NE has been the same this whole time they've been caught constantly cheating. And this is just the times they've gotten caught. And each time its barely a penalty. When they're repeat offenders. It should be harsher for them. Josh Gordon fails a drug test, he doesn't just get a few game suspension anymore does he?

[Daniel]

17 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

But the top brass at NE has been the same this whole time they've been caught constantly cheating. And this is just the times they've gotten caught. And each time its barely a penalty. When they're repeat offenders. It should be harsher for them. Josh Gordon fails a drug test, he doesn't just get a few game suspension anymore does he?

But wasn’t this one blamed on an independent contractor? I mean, I don’t believe that they acted alone, but you could still conceivably blame it on another party.

Burden of proof is on the accuser, so if the NFL can’t prove that Belichick or Kraft directed them, can you punish them more harshly?

[BobbyPhil1781]

32 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

No conspiracy theory IMO. I just think its ridiculous to not give them harsher penalties each time they cheat like players get worse penalties as there penalties akrew.

It's also setting a precedent. I'll use even my own team as an example... how if the Jets cheat can we get any harsher penalties than these small slaps on the wrist like NE has gotten? Its saying... why not cheat? 1.1mill and a 3rd rounder is minimal for an organization. If i'm a HC and organization I'd start cheating ASAP bc these BS penalties thrown down on NE. 

I don't disagree from a repeat offender standpoint. I think if this is their first offense, they don't even get this punishment. IMO it's boiling down to "how much would this really help them?" and that's why I feel it's a minor punishment bc I don't feel it's extremely beneficial and not a big deal aside from breaking rules. It sounds silly, I know, but in the grand scheme of things, how much does this really help them gain a competitive advantage? I can't remember what they were filming and am too lazy to look up the details lol

[Ray Reed]

Side note - I feel like organizational fines should be against the cap a team has if teams are found to have violated league rules egregious enough to warrant a fine.

Like, does anyone think these few hundred thousand dollar - a million or two dollar fines are actually hurting billionaire owners? 

It’d be much more effective if those fines subtracted from a team’s available cap space IMO

 

[Daniel]

13 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Side note - I feel like organizational fines should be against the cap a team has if teams are found to have violated league rules egregious enough to warrant a fine.

Like, does anyone think these few hundred thousand dollar - a million or two dollar fines are actually hurting billionaire owners? 

It’d be much more effective if those fines subtracted from a team’s available cap space IMO

 

I actually really like this idea.

[Deadpulse]

19 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Side note - I feel like organizational fines should be against the cap a team has if teams are found to have violated league rules egregious enough to warrant a fine.

Like, does anyone think these few hundred thousand dollar - a million or two dollar fines are actually hurting billionaire owners? 

It’d be much more effective if those fines subtracted from a team’s available cap space IMO

 

Then you are hurting the players for the sake of the Owner and staff and just saving the Owner money he may have otherwise spent on the players. I bet there is a clause that the NFLPA negotiated preventing this. I understand the thought, but when you go deeper with the idea it is ultimately hurting the wrong people. 

[Daniel]

13 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

Then you are hurting the players for the sake of the Owner and staff and just saving the Owner money he may have otherwise spent on the players. I bet there is a clause that the NFLPA negotiated preventing this. I understand the thought, but when you go deeper with the idea it is ultimately hurting the wrong people. 

Probably not, at least for most teams.  In all likelihood, it would just get them closer to the cap, which means they carry over less to the next season.

If a team is a repeat offender to the degree that they have to start cutting players, then it's no different from any other cap casualty and would make players either stay away from bad actor teams or be more careful in their negotiations to get more fully guaranteed money.

I just find it hard to imagine very many circumstances where this would actually affect players on an individual level.

[Deadpulse]

Just now, Daniel said:

I just find it hard to imagine very many circumstances where this would actually affect players on an individual level.

If that is the case, then you arent really punishing the team in a significant way anyways so what is the point? 

[Daniel]

2 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

If that is the case, then you arent really punishing the team in a significant way anyways so what is the point? 

You're making the cap more difficult to manage, and starting off their free agency with less buying power, so yeah, it's an actual punishment for the team.

I guess you could argue that the fine takes out some amount of the total money that would have, at one point or another, gone to the players collectively, but that's a pretty abstract con for too many players to be concerned.