Kyler Murray Hype

[EagleBlueDon]

Like I said in a different thread, I feel like the Cards hype is just high in general going into this season. Everybody's dark horse, everybody's "tough game" this year. I get it but, not really. Team still has holes for days.

[NJC33]

31 minutes ago, Zalixar said:

Kyler went to one of the worst teams in existence.   Tough climb.

Sam Darnold: Hold my beer!

Next season he'll have one of the best supporting casts in the league, in addition to a bright offensive coach. Is the OL great? Far from it, but it could also be a lot worse. No reason to patronize the guy, a lot of young QB's would kill for his situation. 

[rocky_rams]

9 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

I keep seeing this dude touted as the next big thing. It's obviously too early to write him off as unable to reach those heights, but I've seen several people...like, NFL people...say he's going to be the MVP this year. 

Why is his hype so high? I feel like he's shown nothing that would make me think he's going to win the MVP award this year. I don't dislike him, but I really don't think he'll be a top 5 QB any time soon. He's got a lot of work to do still. Will Hopkins help? Oh, absolutely. Will it take Murray from a decent rookie QB to the MVP? I think that's crazy talk.

 

What say you, FF?

Oh you didnt hear? Kyler is the next Mahomes and Kingsbury is a better Sean McVay 

Cards are gonna three peat 

[candyman93]

His division is brutal. It’s not a knock on him.

[ClutchDJ]

I don’t think he’ll win MVP this season(or whenever the next season is played), but I do think he’ll win MVP the following. I think he’ll be a perennial top 5 QB for 8-10 years with at least one championship. I always thought he was the generational prospect that people continue to peg Trevor Lawrence as.

Edited July 1, 2020 by ClutchDJ

[HoboRocket]

9 hours ago, GordyTheGoffer said:

its the year 2 jump. People think its generally automatic for a decent rookie QB who can pass and run to come out slinging and running the show in year 2. Murray has the arm and the speed to do it but its not that simple. I'm still not in love with the Oline and that may keep him mid rank if nothing else does.

Luckily, Marcus Gilbert is returning from injury, Justin Pugh finally showed that he can be a cornerstone when healthy, DJ Humphries had one of the most dominant run-blocking seasons I've ever seen while being reliable in pass pro, UDFA rookie Justin Murray improved greatly as the season progressed, and they drafted Josh Jones this year. Those guys should fill three or four spots with quality play. Meanwhile, Lamont Galliard is likely to win a starting spot after promising showings last year as a rookie when he was given a chance, and he's a really nice piece. He won't ever be physically dominating like Humphries, but he does all of the little things right. 

Also, KK does a great job of alleviating pressure with his route concepts. However, when the OL have bad games, they have to switch to using those mesh and stick concepts on basically every play, which is part of why Kyler was having really bad YPA at times. Like, it's better than letting the pass rush brutalize him and losing yardage/getting incompletions, but it DID handicap the explosion at times, and that makes the Cardinals offense manageable/forces them to sustain long drives. 

But it's not like Murray's supporting cast was terrible. 3/5 of their OL was bad for half of the season, but Kyler Murray's blind-side was pretty good all season long, and the right tackle spot got better as the season progressed, as well. Their RB group was actually really nice. David Johnson was reliable, especially as a receiver around the red-zone, if unexciting and unexplosive. Chase Edmonds was extremely impressive at times, but missed a big chunk of the season. Kenyan Drake played excellent football. Really and truly, the supporting cast wasn't awful like people made it out to be. It was just below average and ended up being average towards the end of the season. This wasn't your typical first-overall pick team. They just had a lot of injuries and lacked experience, but they got much better once they started to gel. They were without their top-2 CBs (though one was due to suspension), four of their expected top 5 WRs, multiple projected starting offensive linemen, and two of their top-3 RBs for substantial parts of the season. 

8 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

I do think Kyler is going to be solid to good. But the MVP of the league this year?

 

The Cardinals are still the worst team in their division. When's the last time the MVP of the NFL was the worst team in their division? The point is, even if Murray is great, he would need to be Mahomes-level elite to take that team anywhere. And quite frankly, that's not happening.

 

I know you're excited about your shiny new toy, but the question wasn't is Kyler good. The question was is Kyler being hyped as the 2020 MVP insane? Which it is.

So yeah, he had Larry last year at WR. Kirk was out or banged up for most of the season, and he was the #2 WR. The #3 (KeeSean Johnson) missed a large portion of the season. The #4 (Trent Sherfield) missed the whole season. The #5 (Andy Isabella) missed a large chunk of the season. The #6 (Hakeem Butler) missed the whole season. Their starting RT (Marcus Gilbert) missed the whole season. Their starting RB (David Johnson) missed several games. Their #2 RB (Chase Edmonds) missed most of the season. Their later starting RB (Kenyan Drake) was on another team for half of the season. Their #1 CB (Patrick Peterson) missed the first six games of the season. Their #2 CB (Robert Alford) missed the whole season. Their #3 TE (Dan Arnold) was starting games and getting significant targets due to injuries.

So yeah. They're getting all of those guys back, except for Johnson.

What about talent added?

The offense added DeAndre Hopkins, which improves the offense not only by adding Hopkins, but by improving each receiver through changing the way that teams focus on them. The defense added Jordan Phillips (9.5 sacks last year at DT), Devon Kennard (8 sack yearly type of guy at OLB across from Chandler Jones), Isaiah Simmons (whatever Vance Joseph wants him to be), and DeVondre Campbell (splash-play type ballhawk at ILB). 

11 hours ago, Daniel said:

That's where I am.  He's essentially just now entering the phase where we'll see what he can really do.  He was fine as a rookie, but rookie years mean very little, and even if they didn't, he wasn't that impressive in comparison to other recent rookie sensations.

Cards stans will be quick to point out a bad supporting cast, but that's like every first overall pick ever.  You don't get to the first overall pick with a good team, and you rarely get there with just a plain old bad team.

I'd argue we only know marginally more about him than we did right after he was drafted.

He was pretty good. And if we're talking about comparing his rookie season to others', he A) won offensive rookie of the year, and B) he had a historical rookie season.

211 consecutive pass attempts without an INT is a rookie record. Five 300+ yard passing performances is second all-time by a rookie (only behind Andrew Luck). Only the second rookie EVER to throw for over 3,500 passing yards and run for over 500 on the ground. The Cardinals are the oldest continuously-run football team in the U.S., dating back to 1898, and have been part of the NFL since 1920, yet only four Cardinals QBs have surpassed Murray in single-season passing yards. Not only did he have high passing yards, but his completion percentage on the season is better than what any Cardinals QB has achieved except for one - Kurt Warner. They also had one of the best turnarounds in NFL history. Not quite the Rams' 

And yeah, that was with a supporting cast that wasn't the best in the first place and was ravaged by injury.

Now, they have all of those guys who missed time back except for David Johnson, with the addition of the best WR in the NFL and what should be (on paper) a much better defense. 

[sp6488]

9 hours ago, Duluther said:

I think his ceiling is very high. Or, at least to him it’s high.

 

8 hours ago, Daniel said:

I laughed at this, but I'm also shorter than Kyler, so joke's on me.

I felt like this was already in the OP 

12 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

I keep seeing this dude touted as the next big thing. It's obviously too early to write him off as unable to reach those heights, but I've seen several people...like, NFL people...say he's going to be the MVP this year. 

Why is his hype so high?

 

[Daniel]

42 minutes ago, sp6488 said:

I felt like this was already in the OP 

Oh wow.  I completely missed that one.

Some dads in this thread, apparently.

[Ray Reed]

17 hours ago, Zalixar said:

It's a tough business.

I would rule out Kyler for MVP only because Kyler could throw for 5k yards and run for 1k for 40 TD's and have a 6 game winning season and won't win.  They won't give it to someone who doesn't have a good team record and/or playoffs.  I do think he will even have the stats, but just stating he has a lot going against him.  I find it possible, but unlikely we have a winning season this year (I am thinking the following year is the jump).  But who knows, SF went from 2nd worst to 2nd best.

 

Lamar went to a good team.

Mahomes went to a good team

Watson went to a good team

Kyler went to one of the worst teams in existence.   Tough climb.

Don't underestimate what true game-changing, franchise QBs can do for a team's win totals in a relatively short (no pun intended) amount of time. 

Lamar went to a team that historically is a very good franchise, for sure, but the team he took over his rookie year was 4-5 when he was inserted into the lineup, and they were 9-7 and 8-8 the two years prior, so Lamar took over a team that was essentially 21-20 the previous 2.5 seasons. He went 6-1 the rest of that year with the same personnel, and then 14-2 the next year...took us from a 21-20 stretch to a 20-3 stretch virtually overnight.

I think Kyler can have that kind of effect on that Cardinals team. Maybe not 14-2, but I wouldn't be shocked to see him get them 9ish wins and that would be plenty for an MVP case if he went out and balled statistically. I've seen him play in person (week 2 last year) and that kid is insanely impressive...the impact a QB upgrade on a team has on the rest of the roster is infectious. All of a sudden players who used to be JAGs are making game-changing plays. Just one of those weird momentum things...I can see it happening. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

On 6/30/2020 at 7:45 AM, BleedTheClock said:

I keep seeing this dude touted as the next big thing. It's obviously too early to write him off as unable to reach those heights, but I've seen several people...like, NFL people...say he's going to be the MVP this year. 

Why is his hype so high? I feel like he's shown nothing that would make me think he's going to win the MVP award this year. I don't dislike him, but I really don't think he'll be a top 5 QB any time soon. He's got a lot of work to do still. Will Hopkins help? Oh, absolutely. Will it take Murray from a decent rookie QB to the MVP? I think that's crazy talk.

 

What say you, FF?

I mean did Jackson or Mahomes show you anything to indicate they would win MVPs in their second season? I agree there is a lot of hard projecting going on here and the hype may be a bit too much, but we have seen young QBs in year twos take off. The Cardinals added one of the best WRs in the game that only added to the Murray hype. He's a talented QB that definitely flashed his rookie season so it is natural for someone like that to have some lofty expectations.

Do I think he will be the MVP or the Cardinals will make the playoffs? No, I do not. But we have just seen two QBs that far exceeded expectations and win MVP in their second seasons. I don't find it all that unusual to see Murray get this type of hype personally. 

[BleedTheClock]

30 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

I mean did Jackson or Mahomes show you anything to indicate they would win MVPs in their second season? I agree there is a lot of hard projecting going on here and the hype may be a bit too much, but we have seen young QBs in year twos take off. The Cardinals added one of the best WRs in the game that only added to the Murray hype. He's a talented QB that definitely flashed his rookie season so it is natural for someone like that to have some lofty expectations.

Do I think he will be the MVP or the Cardinals will make the playoffs? No, I do not. But we have just seen two QBs that far exceeded expectations and win MVP in their second seasons. I don't find it all that unusual to see Murray get this type of hype personally. 

But Jackson and Mahomes were on great teams already. Kyler Murray is on the Arizona Cardinals. That roster is not impressive at all. I don’t think they’re going to be very good this year. 7 wins would be my guess for their absolute ceiling. 

[VanS]

On 6/30/2020 at 10:25 AM, Daniel said:

And what's funny with Mahomes is that it wasn't supposed to be him.  Deshaun Watson was the hyped rookie.

And last year Lamar got zero hype and ended up being the MVP.

I think you might be onto something.  The breakout young QB is typically someone most don't see coming.  With that said, I actually like Kyler a lot and think he has a chance to be the MVP this upcoming year. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

3 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

But Jackson and Mahomes were on great teams already. Kyler Murray is on the Arizona Cardinals. That roster is not impressive at all. I don’t think they’re going to be very good this year. 7 wins would be my guess for their absolute ceiling. 

Sure, and I mentioned in my post I don't expect Murray to be the MVP nor the Cardinals to make the playoffs. 

But I was just saying nothing Mahomes or Jackson showed in their rookie seasons that made people think they could be MVPs in their second season. Murray flashed and as any rookie QB that flashes, they will be receiving a lot of hype in season two. 

Edited July 1, 2020 by J-ALL-DAY

[Ray Reed]

3 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Sure, and I mentioned in my post I don't expect Murray to be the MVP nor the Cardinals to make the playoffs. 

But I just saying nothing Mahomes or Jackson showed in their rookie seasons that made people think they could be MVPs in their second season. Murray flashed and as any rookie QB that flashes, they will be receiving a lot of hype in season two. 

Not quite sure why he keeps citing the Ravens as a “great” team when they were 21-20 and had missed the playoffs 3 years in a row when Lamar took over, either lol

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Not quite sure why he keeps citing the Ravens as a “great” team when they were 21-20 and had missed the playoffs 3 years in a row when Lamar took over, either lol

There's that to. They only took off in 2018 when Lamar became the starter and no one really looked at that roster as being amazing or anything. And then last season the team was a complete juggernaut. 

I will say to this topic. In 2018, it was Watson who was getting all the potential MVP love and it ended up being Mahomes. Last year it was Mayfield who got the MVP love and it ended up being Jackson. This time around it is Murray getting the love..........So everyone should be putting money on one of the other second year rookies to win MVP lol.