Jump to content

Most intriguing position or roster battles


dll2000

Recommended Posts

57 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I believe TEs are going to be Graham, Kmet, Harris, Horsted and Holtz.   

My largest hope is they do not ignore the development of Horsted who I think is an underrated raw talent.  But I think that they will.

I'm thinking along those same lines.  Graham, Kmet, and Harris are the locks.  Holtz gives Nagy a "Grabowski" type combination TE/FB/HB who has 15 games under his belt now.  His main competition is probably Braunecker.

I like what I saw from Horstead as a receiver but he's kind of a mystery man based on his speed.  I'm sure the Bears know what it is but based on his pre-draft numbers we're somewhat in the dark.   He's been reported to have run some 4.5s and other sources have posted high 4.7s.  So which is most accurate because something like a 4.77 posted in one scouting report makes him somewhat questionable as a "U" type TE.  A slimmed down Shaheen may be given one more shot at taking a backup "Y" or "U" role.  He surely couldn't stay healthy and effective at 277 lbs but they list him at a slimmed down 257lbs now so they may want to see if he can finally step up and play at this level.

Word is they won't be bringing 90 players to camp this years so some of those fringe TEs will be left off the camp roster in favor of other positions.

Edited by soulman
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, soulman said:

I'm thinking along those same lines.  Graham, Kmet, and Harris are the locks.  Holtz gives Nagy a "Grabowski" type combination TE/FB/HB who has 15 games under his belt now.  His main competition is probably Braunecker.

I like what I saw from Horstead as a receiver but he's kind of a mystery man based on his speed.  I'm sure the Bears know what it is but based on his pre-draft numbers we're somewhat in the dark.   He's been reported to have run some 4.5s and other sources have posted high 4.7s.  So which is most accurate because something like a 4.77 posted in one scouting report makes him somewhat questionable as a "U" type TE.  A slimmed down Shaheen may be given one more shot at taking a backup "Y" role.  He surely couldn't stay healthy and effective at 277 lbs but they list him at a slimmed down 257lbs now so they may want to see if he can finally step up and play at this level.

Word is they won't be bringing 90 players to camp this years so some of those fringe TEs will be left off the camp roster in favor of other positions.

Eyeball test tells me Horsted has above average football speed for his position.  That and his hands makes me want to develop him.

Like Kmet, actually more so than Kmet because he was leaning baseball as a future, he was a dual sport player.  Add to that he made a position change from WR to TE at NFL level.  And was hurt until camp was already well under way, so he was behind.   And he was an after thought in midst of like 100 TEs on roster.

Through all that Horsted emerged and stood out big time in pre season and then made his way onto field during reg. season.   To me that is super impressive.  That is a lot of hurdles to over come.

Especially since you have to slap this coaching staff in face to get them to change penciled in positions that aren't performing.  

I assume he is intelligent because he went to Princeton.

I would add that his college tape is really impressive as well as a receiver.   To me this would be a guy I would give a long, long look over next two seasons and I would invest time and coaching in.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

Uhh, have you met the 2020 offseason yet?  German Ifedi, the ghost of Jimmy Graham, and a rookie TE are the skill upgrades, and maybe Nick Foles again?

If we're writing Pace's tombstone next January, the big letters are going to be about missing on the QB, and the small type is going to be all about OL

Ugghh this kind of sports analysis is so corny. Basically You just talk junk about all the signings. If they dont work you brag about being right, if they do work no one even remembers this post anyway. Its kind of a gambling strategy where you always bet the field. So like you bet on other TE's being better rather than seeing Graham produced more than all of our TE's combined last year. So lame haha. But some people like that so I get it. Some people like their chicken baked, some like fried....i get it but it is very corny.

Are you actually Brad Biggs? haha

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, MonserinNC said:

Ugghh this kind of sports analysis is so corny. Basically You just talk junk about all the signings. If they dont work you brag about being right, if they do work no one even remembers this post anyway. Its kind of a gambling strategy where you always bet the field. So like you bet on other TE's being better rather than seeing Graham produced more than all of our TE's combined last year. So lame haha. But some people like that so I get it. Some people like their chicken baked, some like fried....i get it but it is very corny.

Are you actually Brad Biggs? haha

That's kind of a meathead mindset that you gave yet again. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to be pessimistic about the signings. The inverse is true for you, if they boom you brag about being right, if they crap the bed you say at least you supported them or it is forgotten. It's a corny and generic response. 

Graham outperformed our TEs. So? Doesnt mean he played well. Any starting TE should be able to outperform the group we fielded last year, especially when he had Rodgers throwing to him and had Adam's being the focal point of the DBs. I mean a seriously hobbled Burton, pudgy Shaheen, a rookie UFA WR turned TE, and Holtz (a blocking TE) didn't produce. Thats not shocking at all. We had Tru and three guys that got more targets than Graham. I'm not sure that will change this year either. 

A number of us were unimpressed with Kmet during the predraft process, I'm one of them. I hope he kills it here but a subjective hope means nothing in the long run. 

I'm more optimistic about Ifedi since he is a strong guy and is able to be in a phone booth of sorts. But it is still an unproven experiment. I'd bet he's an average guard way before thinking he is going to be a key cog in a great OL. Average would be a notable improvement, but the OL still has question marks at 3 spots at minimum right now. 

Foles has a few great streaks with much better talent than we have, and has sub-Tru levels of play for more stretches. Were hoping he can play at a competent level but he just lost out to Minshew and has never played 16. Hard to expect him to beat the odds now all of a sudden. 

I like my chicken baked and I like it fried. But I prefer to try and make my views as objective (when not in the heat of the moment like during the draft lol) as possible. All these can be significant upgrades but even if they are the bar was set so low last year how much will that actually amount to? Idk. It'll be an interesting season to be sure. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Eyeball test tells me Horsted has above average football speed for his position.  That and his hands makes me want to develop him.

Like Kmet, actually more so than Kmet because he was leaning baseball as a future, he was a dual sport player.  Add to that he made a position change from WR to TE at NFL level.  And was hurt until camp was already well under way, so he was behind.   And he was an after thought in midst of like 100 TEs on roster.

Through all that Horsted emerged and stood out big time in pre season and then made his way onto field during reg. season.   To me that is super impressive.  That is a lot of hurdles to over come.

Especially since you have to slap this coaching staff in face to get them to change penciled in positions that aren't performing.  

I assume he is intelligent because he went to Princeton.

I would add that his college tape is really impressive as well as a receiver.   To me this would be a guy I would give a long, long look over next two seasons and I would invest time and coaching in.

 

I'm right there with you.  He has one thing to his credit and had it when he arrived and that was terrific college production.  The kid is a born pass catcher.

Shaheen has pretty much worn me out but obviously Pace wants him to have one last shot at breaking into a TE rotation.  I would not be pleased if they kept him over continuing to work on developing Horsted.  Maybe Shaheen has a chance if he shows he can handle the "Y" spot for now but so far he hasn't exactly shown the kind of physical traits you see in really good "U" TEs.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

That's kind of a meathead mindset that you gave yet again. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to be pessimistic about the signings. The inverse is true for you, if they boom you brag about being right, if they crap the bed you say at least you supported them or it is forgotten. It's a corny and generic response. 

 

You lost me at the beginning by calling me a meat head and the reiteration of my criticism by using "corny" and "lame". My perspective is clearly unique, and what was generic was you recycling my vocabulary .......barf.....haha....your takes suck bruh....im just smart....you can insult me in other ways than questioning my intelligence

Edited by MonserinNC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Man, some of you guys amaze me with your pessimism about the offseason.  Existing contracts had Pace pretty cap strapped bit IMHO he did OK on a cheap beer budget.  He found the kind of core type players you can win with if they can play up to expectations and the expectations are that or journeyman level guys with a lot of previous experience.

We needed better blocking and guys like Ifedi and Harris have been able to hang around the NFL and play a ton of games.  Ifedi was a former 1st round pick and a starter for 4 years so he's not with some degree of ability.  Let's at least see if he can handle RG at a higher level than RT.  Harris has also played a lot of NFL football in KC where was primarily a blocking TE to Kelce's receiving TE.   Neither one of these guys has ever missed a lot of time due to injuries and they came at a budget price.

Like him or not Jimmy Graham is still a productive TE who can be plugged in day one at "U" TE and just go to work.  We don't have the time to see if someone else develops quickly enough to do more than he can or deal with players with chronic injury issues or psychological problems.  We spent a whole lot money and a 2nd round pick on two of those.  If Graham can give us 50-55 catches for 600 yards or so and a handful of TDs we're getting what we paid for.

Foles was the best choice for two reasons.  1) They obviously haven't given up on Mitch yet, and 2) He knows the basics of the offense.  A third might be he is affordable.

I might have preferred Andy Dalton initially but I think it's pretty clear by now Andy Dalton didn't prefer to come to Chicago to compete with Mitch.  His name was on the list but for whatever reason or reasons we couldn't get a deal done that worked.  Foles was more than willing to come to Chicago and reworked his contract to make it happen.  He's the push and pressure on Mitch the both Pace and Nagy obviously wanted but also a guy who can step in and win if Mitch fails again.  He's also not the type to pout or cop an attitude if he does end up #2.

We don't have the best QB in the NFCN but we may well have the best two QBs in the NFCN if a starter goes down.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the Bears improved at several positions but I question whether those improvements will lead to any significant improvement from the offense. Offensive success is heavily linked to QB play and the Bears did not significantly upgrade that position.

And yeah, Pace was strapped for cash. That shouldn't be used as an excuse when he created the cap issues.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, soulman said:

Man, some of you guys amaze me with your pessimism about the offseason.  Existing contracts had Pace pretty cap strapped bit IMHO he did OK on a cheap beer budget.  He found the kind of core type players you can win with if they can play up to expectations and the expectations are that or journeyman level guys with a lot of previous experience.

We needed better blocking and guys like Ifedi and Harris have been able to hang around the NFL and play a ton of games.  Ifedi was a former 1st round pick and a starter for 4 years so he's not with some degree of ability.  Let's at least see if he can handle RG at a higher level than RT.  Harris has also played a lot of NFL football in KC where was primarily a blocking TE to Kelce's receiving TE.   Neither one of these guys has ever missed a lot of time due to injuries and they came at a budget price.

Like him or not Jimmy Graham is still a productive TE who can be plugged in day one at "U" TE and just go to work.  We don't have the time to see if someone else develops quickly enough to do more than he can or deal with players with chronic injury issues or psychological problems.  We spent a whole lot money and a 2nd round pick on two of those.  If Graham can give us 50-55 catches for 600 yards or so and a handful of TDs we're getting what we paid for.

Foles was the best choice for two reasons.  1) They obviously haven't given up on Mitch yet, and 2) He knows the basics of the offense.  A third might be he is affordable.

I might have preferred Andy Dalton initially but I think it's pretty clear by now Andy Dalton didn't prefer to come to Chicago to compete with Mitch.  His name was on the list but for whatever reason or reasons we couldn't get a deal done that worked.  Foles was more than willing to come to Chicago and reworked his contract to make it happen.  He's the push and pressure on Mitch the both Pace and Nagy obviously wanted but also a guy who can step in and win if Mitch fails again.  He's also not the type to pout or cop an attitude if he does end up #2.

We don't have the best QB in the NFCN but we may well have the best two QBs in the NFCN if a starter goes down.

Yeah, all of this is right. I dont know if they are trying to be cool by being pessimistic or what haha. I think they are just imitating journalist who use a similar technique.I already went over it in more detail earlier in this thread but essentially its super easy to be right by betting we wont make it out of the wild card (top 8 essentially). Its lame as hell

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, MonserinNC said:

You lost me at the beginning by calling me a meat head and the reiteration of my criticism by using "corny" and "lame". My perspective is clearly unique, and what was generic was you recycling my vocabulary .......barf.....haha....your takes suck bruh....im just smart....you can insult me in other ways than questioning my intelligence

Lol. If you're that smart (or literate) you'd see that I didn't call you a meat head, I said that was kind of a meat head mindset you presented. Clearly they are different things. To clarify, people who are very intelligent can have a stupid opinion about something. If you feel I attacked your intelligence in any way with that previous post then that's pure projection on your part. This last quote of yours though clearly gives me reason to do so. 

As for your perspective being unique, there are times it is. Calling Njoku a bust while saying Burns is a starter who just didn't get his option picked up. I'd say that is very... unique. For the most part there is little you say that doesn't seem regurgitated from a Facebook Bears fan group or Yahoo comment section. 

 

4 hours ago, soulman said:

Man, some of you guys amaze me with your pessimism about the offseason.  Existing contracts had Pace pretty cap strapped bit IMHO he did OK on a cheap beer budget.  He found the kind of core type players you can win with if they can play up to expectations and the expectations are that or journeyman level guys with a lot of previous experience.

We needed better blocking and guys like Ifedi and Harris have been able to hang around the NFL and play a ton of games.  Ifedi was a former 1st round pick and a starter for 4 years so he's not with some degree of ability.  Let's at least see if he can handle RG at a higher level than RT.  Harris has also played a lot of NFL football in KC where was primarily a blocking TE to Kelce's receiving TE.   Neither one of these guys has ever missed a lot of time due to injuries and they came at a budget price.

Like him or not Jimmy Graham is still a productive TE who can be plugged in day one at "U" TE and just go to work.  We don't have the time to see if someone else develops quickly enough to do more than he can or deal with players with chronic injury issues or psychological problems.  We spent a whole lot money and a 2nd round pick on two of those.  If Graham can give us 50-55 catches for 600 yards or so and a handful of TDs we're getting what we paid for.

Foles was the best choice for two reasons.  1) They obviously haven't given up on Mitch yet, and 2) He knows the basics of the offense.  A third might be he is affordable.

I might have preferred Andy Dalton initially but I think it's pretty clear by now Andy Dalton didn't prefer to come to Chicago to compete with Mitch.  His name was on the list but for whatever reason or reasons we couldn't get a deal done that worked.  Foles was more than willing to come to Chicago and reworked his contract to make it happen.  He's the push and pressure on Mitch the both Pace and Nagy obviously wanted but also a guy who can step in and win if Mitch fails again.  He's also not the type to pout or cop an attitude if he does end up #2.

We don't have the best QB in the NFCN but we may well have the best two QBs in the NFCN if a starter goes down.

Good post. He made improvements in areas where we had major weaknesses. As Abstract said, he was the reason for the cap issues but I'm fine with what they did. They took a gamble to win it all with the Mack trade, Tru was a major issue with that gamble losing. Pace needed to fill multiple holes with limited cap, and put in either a competent vet (hopefully high floor with moderate ceiling) or cheap guys that may make a splash (Ifedi may be a hell of a guard, but at worst he should be an upgrade from Long/Coward with at least acceptable play).

Graham is being paid at the 7th highest AAV for TEs this year (could change as re-signings occur) but that is the price you pay to ensure you don't have to trot out the guys we did last year. Without competent play at TE it seems Nagy's offense is going to really struggle to challenge a defense. And we clearly aren't trotting out the Greatest Show on Turf's skill position players so just having a blocking TE won't do. 

I would have preferred Dalton too but really with the shortened offseason availability for players to meet with coaches it seems the safest signing possible, and really they needed someone cheap because of the aforementioned cap issues. Would have been rough trying to fill holes with Bridgewater taking up $14 mil and $23 mil respectively. Especially with ARob needing to be extended. (FWIW Spotrac has Tru at a worth of $27.8 mil per year for average salary  lol). Honestly that is an interesting point. The #2 QBs are Love (presumably), Daniel, and Mannion. Love may have higher upside and a better cast around him if he plays but is a complete unknown. Daniel and Mannion suck, and I doubt anyone here would choose either over Tru or Foles. We probably have the lowest ceiling at QB but for the top 2 spots may have the highest floor by a fair margin. Depth at QB isn't something to sneeze at.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, MonserinNC said:

Ugghh this kind of sports analysis is so corny. Basically You just talk junk about all the signings. If they dont work you brag about being right, if they do work no one even remembers this post anyway. Its kind of a gambling strategy where you always bet the field. So like you bet on other TE's being better rather than seeing Graham produced more than all of our TE's combined last year. So lame haha. But some people like that so I get it. Some people like their chicken baked, some like fried....i get it but it is very corny.

Are you actually Brad Biggs? haha

I was actually agreeing with your assessment of the 2019 offseason and was just saying the 2020 offseason was not all that different.  I literally carried your concerns forward a year as I think they're valid both years.  I am 100% not Brad Biggs.  You'd said their offseason was weirdly cocky, which I agreed with for 2019, and I say the same for 2020 as all they did at one of their most damagingly poor positions was add Germain Ifedi (a first round player who if not a bust has VASTLY underperformed) and 2 7th round rookies... If you thought not adding at TE was weirdly cocky I don't know how you see the OL moves as anything but the same. I have no idea how you see your take as accurate for 2019 but if I have the same concerns about a similar set of moves now you think it's corny and imply that it's lazy... What a weird take.  I give you my word as an internet poser I'm not Brad Biggs. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Lol. If you're that smart (or literate) you'd see that I didn't call you a meat head, I said that was kind of a meat head mindset you presented. Clearly they are different things. To clarify, people who are very intelligent can have a stupid opinion about something. If you feel I attacked your intelligence in any way with that previous post then that's pure projection on your part. This last quote of yours though clearly gives me reason to do so. 

As for your perspective being unique, there are times it is. Calling Njoku a bust while saying Burns is a starter who just didn't get his option picked up. I'd say that is very... unique. For the most part there is little you say that doesn't seem regurgitated from a Facebook Bears fan group or Yahoo comment section. 

I'm clearly literate....smh....I'm over that whole back and forth.

For the Njoku thing I think you are talking about my post in the News thread, I was exaggerating when I said "bust" I meant bust in the sense of someone who should not be throwing around trade demands.....so I guess you got me there haha.....I actually like the Burns comparison, all the tools, hasnt really put up good numbers, good call. Imagine Burns making demands of any kind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RunningVaccs said:

I was actually agreeing with your assessment of the 2019 offseason and was just saying the 2020 offseason was not all that different.  I literally carried your concerns forward a year as I think they're valid both years.  I am 100% not Brad Biggs.  You'd said their offseason was weirdly cocky, which I agreed with for 2019, and I say the same for 2020 as all they did at one of their most damagingly poor positions was add Germain Ifedi (a first round player who if not a bust has VASTLY underperformed) and 2 7th round rookies... If you thought not adding at TE was weirdly cocky I don't know how you see the OL moves as anything but the same. I have no idea how you see your take as accurate for 2019 but if I have the same concerns about a similar set of moves now you think it's corny and imply that it's lazy... What a weird take.  I give you my word as an internet poser I'm not Brad Biggs. 

We are pretty much at an impasse here. Ifedi had a ton of starts for a winning team at OT and we are kicking him to an easier position

 

Also, saying your not Brad Biggs.......sounds exactly like what Brad Biggs would say :ph34r:

Edited by MonserinNC
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sir I refuse to acknowledge any impasse, if we just talk louder we'll convince each other. 

I was optimistic about 2019, but already viewed the OL as an issue after 2018; were they actually decent or were they playing their absolute peak ball?  Then they were bad across the board in 2019, with Whitehair being the least offenseive (ha) and Daniels looking lost and soft, Long and those who followed him at RG looking just plain terrible, and both Massie and Leno looking to have come back to earth. Adding a guy whose team let him go without reservation doesn't inspire a ton of confidence.  I'm of course hoping the coaching changes and some reality dosing gets them back to decent but I don't know why we'd count on it. 

I'd argue more, but I have to go do a podcast with Dan Weiderer. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

Sir I refuse to acknowledge any impasse, if we just talk louder we'll convince each other. 

LOL.  Here here.  A wise policy my goodman.  A wise policy indeed.  Top drawer.  Top drawer.   

8 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

I was optimistic about 2019, but already viewed the OL as an issue after 2018; were they actually decent or were they playing their absolute peak ball?  Then they were bad across the board in 2019, with Whitehair being the least offenseive (ha) and Daniels looking lost and soft, Long and those who followed him at RG looking just plain terrible, and both Massie and Leno looking to have come back to earth. Adding a guy whose team let him go without reservation doesn't inspire a ton of confidence.  I'm of course hoping the coaching changes and some reality dosing gets them back to decent but I don't know why we'd count on it. 

I'd argue more, but I have to go do a podcast with Dan Weiderer. 

I am pretty high on Ifedi and Whitehair.  

Daniels I was super high on coming out of college and after his rookie year, but not sure what happened to him last year.   I think he was distracted.  No way he should have had that bad a fall off even with the position change.   He played center all through college and it should have been his natural position.   Wasn't like they asked him to play TE or even OT.   He started the whole year next to a C and had daily O line meetings and practices on assignments.  You should know all 5 positions after a full camp and season and camp again.   But, he was completely lost at C and then a lot at G.   He was getting overpowered on regular whereas as a rookie he wasn't.  From 20 to 21-22 that should not be happening.  He should be gaining strength big time.  Plus, now he is doing distracting things on twitter.   I hope he lives up to his huge  potential, but I am not as confident as I used to be on him.  I thought this dude was going to be an all-pro.   This might be a guy who doesn't love the game type of issue.   Maybe he bounces back big.  

I have moderate faith in Leno and I think Massie is overrated and his rating is just average.  Meaning he is generally bad.   Our blocking holes were everywhere last year, but this year they are at OT and TE still.   And jury is out on Daniels still.  I think Whitehair and Ifedi will be fine. 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...