Most intriguing position or roster battles

[beardown3231]

19 hours ago, MonserinNC said:

Yeah, all of this is right. I dont know if they are trying to be cool by being pessimistic or what haha. I think they are just imitating journalist who use a similar technique.I already went over it in more detail earlier in this thread but essentially its super easy to be right by betting we wont make it out of the wild card (top 8 essentially). Its lame as hell

Why would being pessimistic about a team we live and die for be "cool?" If anything, that thought process is "lame as hell." Watching them be successful once every 5-8 years is "lame as hell." It's not cool at all to be a Bears fan, it's embarrassing as f*** and that is "lame as hell"

[MonserinNC]

4 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Why would being pessimistic about a team we live and die for be "cool?" If anything, that thought process is "lame as hell." Watching them be successful once every 5-8 years is "lame as hell." It's not cool at all to be a Bears fan, it's embarrassing as f*** and that is "lame as hell"

Its pretty much a lack of commitment, you guys jump up and down pretending to know football and take a pessimistic view so you dont get your feelings hurt.

My approach is just to say forget it, get in enthusiastic, put your chips on the table, get your feelings hurt. We all love the the Bears. Skip the corny BS(although some things are merited) and lets be like the other forums who actually LIKE their teams.

Have yall gone to the other team forums.....thats just my homework for yall while nothing really is going on

[Sugashane]

Just an odd take. Armchair psychology aside, it is difficult to challenge pretty much an entire sub-forum's knowledge of football then say some things are merited, and to say it is a lack of commitment even though we come here and to other forums frequently and watch almost every game. Some guys literally pay thousands per year to see them live or have season tickets even. But even with that there is a lack of commitment to the team? Even while going through and rooting for them while having only 7 winning seasons since 1996? Kind of ridiculous.

[dll2000]

I don’t think anyone should attack others or their knowledge, or lack thereof just debate.  I am probably guilty of it myself at some point.

Every team is mostly bad.  There is only one winner every year and 31 losers.  When pundits and people want to feel smart they predict failure, because failure is the default.

Back when newspapers were king and everyone read the sports pages, Chicago Tribune had a huge multi page layout all about why Tiger Woods would not win the Masters.   That much coverage on one theme was a really big thing.  They said it was a course that required experience and he was too young, etc. etc.  

Well he went out and crushed the field by several strokes in a historic win.  One of biggest eggs on face ever.   But they were just playing odds.

[beardown3231]

11 hours ago, MonserinNC said:

Its pretty much a lack of commitment, you guys jump up and down pretending to know football and take a pessimistic view so you dont get your feelings hurt.

My approach is just to say forget it, get in enthusiastic, put your chips on the table, get your feelings hurt. We all love the the Bears. Skip the corny BS(although some things are merited) and lets be like the other forums who actually LIKE their teams.

Have yall gone to the other team forums.....thats just my homework for yall while nothing really is going on

To clarify, I'm uncommitted, football illiterate, and hateful of the franchise because I don't think they're going to have a great 2020? Do I have that right?

 

16 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I don’t think anyone should attack others or their knowledge, or lack thereof just debate.  I am probably guilty of it myself at some point.

Every team is mostly bad.  There is only one winner every year and 31 losers.  When pundits and people want to feel smart they predict failure, because failure is the default.

Back when newspapers were king and everyone read the sports pages, Chicago Tribune had a huge multi page layout all about why Tiger Woods would not win the Masters.   That much coverage on one theme was a really big thing.  They said it was a course that required experience and he was too young, etc. etc.  

Well he went out and crushed the field by several strokes in a historic win.  One of biggest eggs on face ever.   But they were just playing odds.

Not really. I mean, is it too much to ask for to have a Seahawks-like run? Since week 1 of 2012, their worst year was 9 wins. They won a SB and appeared in another. They won the division 3 times (IIRC). I would doubt their fans think of their team as "losers" because they've only won 1 championship in 8 years.

No one predicts failure for their favorite team to sound smart. I'm embarrassed when my in laws, who couldn't name you 5 NFL franchises, ask me how I think the Bears will do in the upcoming season and almost every year I say "eh, probably 7, 8 or 9 wins." That sucks. I don't do it to sound smart because it probably will happen, as you said. I say it because this franchise has almost entirely stunk for 2.5 decades and it's not only predictable but it's sad.

When they are good, I'm thrilled to be wrong.

Edited July 11, 2020 by beardown3231

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, beardown3231 said:

To clarify, I'm uncommitted, football illiterate, and hateful of the franchise because I don't think they're going to have a great 2020? Do I have that right?

 

Not really. I mean, is it too much to ask for to have a Seahawks-like run? Since week 1 of 2012, their worst year was 9 wins. They won a SB and appeared in another. They won the division 3 times (IIRC). I would doubt their fans think of their team as "losers" because they've only won 1 championship in 8 years.

No one predicts failure for their favorite team to sound smart. I'm embarrassed when my in laws, who couldn't name you 5 NFL franchises, ask me how I think the Bears will do in the upcoming season and almost every year I say "eh, probably 7, 8 or 9 wins." That sucks. I don't do it to sound smart because it probably will happen, as you said. I say it because this franchise has almost entirely stunk for 2.5 decades and it's not only predictable but it's sad.

When they are good, I'm thrilled to be wrong.

You can absolutely be critical.   Bears have not been well run relative to others for most of their existence.  Those are facts.  

Seahawks fans are relatively happy because they got a SB in recent years and went to another after a long time of no success.  But discontent will build each year they fail to return while having Russell Wilson.  Up to last year they had a string of bad drafts.  Discontent is starting to build in GB as well despite a 13 win season.  Heck we are still celebrating 12 wins.    I imagine a 12 win season in Cleveland will garner a near parade.  It’s all relative to recent history or expectations.  

Dan Reeves is not loved despite going to 4 SBs.  He couldn’t win the big one.   To be loved you have to have success like Lombardi, Noll, Walsh or Belichick and that isn’t easy to do.

 

[beardown3231]

14 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

You can absolutely be critical.   Bears have not been well run relative to others for most of their existence.  Those are facts.  

Seahawks fans are relatively happy because they got a SB in recent years and went to another after a long time of no success.  But discontent will build each year they fail to return while having Russell Wilson.  Up to last year they had a string of bad drafts.  Discontent is starting to build in GB as well despite a 13 win season.  Heck we are still celebrating 12 wins.    I imagine a 12 win season in Cleveland will garner a near parade.  It’s all relative to recent history or expectations.  

Dan Reeves is not loved despite going to 4 SBs.  He couldn’t win the big one.   To be loved you have to have success like Lombardi, Noll, Walsh or Belichick and that isn’t easy to do.

 

Well that's fine but comparing this to Cleveland is a little odd. They are the bottom of the barrel NFL franchise. Of course I'd rather be a Bears fan than a Browns fan. Discontent should be building in those two spots, but discontent isn't quite thinking they're "losers." It's a moment thing. Seahawks and Packers fans might be weary of what's ahead, but in 10 years they'll remember these runs for the rest of their lives, and imo, in a positive way.

I could argue that. Reid is loved in KC. Carroll is loved in Seattle. Hell, Shanahan is loved in SF... and none of them have had success like the 4 coaches you named.

[dll2000]

9 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Well that's fine but comparing this to Cleveland is a little odd. They are the bottom of the barrel NFL franchise. Of course I'd rather be a Bears fan than a Browns fan. Discontent should be building in those two spots, but discontent isn't quite thinking they're "losers." It's a moment thing. Seahawks and Packers fans might be weary of what's ahead, but in 10 years they'll remember these runs for the rest of their lives, and imo, in a positive way.

I could argue that. Reid is loved in KC. Carroll is loved in Seattle. Hell, Shanahan is loved in SF... and none of them have had success like the 4 coaches you named.

I didn’t really have a super point I am standing behind.  Just rambling thoughts while procrastinating some work I have to do.  

 But I guess I would argue that to be loved you have to win titles.  Not just be successful.  After 6+ years of great success without winning it all, fans will start to want you gone.  Even with a good record.  

  Reid was crazy successful in Philly and they wanted him gone.  He is still remembered fondly, but wasn’t loved.  He is now loved in KC because he won the title.  Prior to this year there was a lot of talk about clock management and stupid things like that.

Carroll won the big one and went to another right away.  So he has some credit to burn still and will always be loved for the title.  Even Ditka is still well loved in Chicago for winning that title.   I would say Carroll is 10x the coach Ditka ever was.  

Shanahan is coming off a string of terrible years so he is currently in high esteem.  That won’t last forever without a title.  

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by dll2000

[dll2000]

11 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Well that's fine but comparing this to Cleveland is a little odd. They are the bottom of the barrel NFL franchise. Of course I'd rather be a Bears fan than a Browns fan. Discontent should be building in those two spots, but discontent isn't quite thinking they're "losers." It's a moment thing. Seahawks and Packers fans might be weary of what's ahead, but in 10 years they'll remember these runs for the rest of their lives, and imo, in a positive way.

I could argue that. Reid is loved in KC. Carroll is loved in Seattle. Hell, Shanahan is loved in SF... and none of them have had success like the 4 coaches you named.

As far as Cleveland, I was just using that to illustrate recent history matters in current attitude.  

Like Denver and Buffalo went to 4 straight SBs and fans were disappointed and mad at coaches in those third and 4th years because they kept losing the big one.   Same with Reid in Philly going to NFC championship many times.  

While we were super happy with 12 wins recently.   While Packers are not super happy about winning 13.  

 

[dll2000]

And Sean Payton gets a relative pass for losing in playoffs with better teams because he has that SB win.

[dll2000]

McCarthy did not get same pass as Payton though.  Neither did Ditka forever.   People still want to see good and innovative coaching.  I think Payton provides that and McCarthy and Ditka did not.  

I think Carroll better start doing better in near future.  His credit is running out. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

I am far less literate than most of you about the mechanics of football, but enjoy this place as I learn a lot.  I don't quite get the argument going on here though.  My own feelings on this season are that the Bears are playoff contender, but I don't have much faith they'll go farther than that, due to the offense.  The OL has had cause for concern even in that great 2018 season, how can that be a controversial take?

Let's hope for the best for our team, but we've got to be honest about the team if we want to have good discussion. 

 

[Sugashane]

12 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

I am far less literate than most of you about the mechanics of football, but enjoy this place as I learn a lot.  I don't quite get the argument going on here though.  My own feelings on this season are that the Bears are playoff contender, but I don't have much faith they'll go farther than that, due to the offense.  The OL has had cause for concern even in that great 2018 season, how can that be a controversial take?

Let's hope for the best for our team, but we've got to be honest about the team if we want to have good discussion. 

 

It's not a controversial take all. Using logic and having reasonable expectations based off that is exactly what meatheads can't or won't do. Objective journalists do it too. It take more effort than blindly betting too high because you root for the team. That's just lazy. 

 

Most here are even saying the Bears could catch fire or sink due to having so many questions and everyone being in such an odd situation with COVID drastically altering the offseason. 

 

 

[G08]

I've just been scrolling through comments, not thoroughly reading them so forgive me if my take is mistaken... but I think the argument here is that being a pessimistic Bears fan doesn't really make you a true fan. Am I understanding correctly?

I can understand the perspective... you can be realistic and base your pulse of the team through negative lenses. Let's be honest here, those of us who have become fans after the 85 Bears' Dominance have not seen much success so it's understandable to be crusty.

I've loved the team since I was 8 years old, and really got into the X's and O's of the game once information became more readily available to study/learn from in the early 2000's. Regardless, once gameday arrives, even if I think the team is going to suck I am still rooting them on with every fiber of my being. I believe in positive support as a fan, and in this city *especially* at the QB position. 

[Sugashane]

49 minutes ago, G08 said:

Regardless, once gameday arrives, even if I think the team is going to suck I am still rooting them on with every fiber of my being. I believe in positive support as a fan, and in this city *especially* at the QB position. 

Exactly.

 

With both the QB and TE positions in particular I'm hoping to have to eat crow.