Redskins shareholders attempting to force name change

[HoboRocket]

1 hour ago, Thelonebillsfan said:

Yeah it's almost like our culture tokenizing and stereotyping Native peoples was bad and damaging. And has had profound long term effects on them as a people and a culture.

So, I'm a full-blood Luiseño, and personally, I'm not offended by the term "Redskin." I used to be, but sadly, I guess I've been desensitized to racial slurs towards Native Americans over time. Same thing with the stereotypes that we're all drunks who live on the Rez and just take our handouts from Casinos. I've heard so many people say crap like that, and now I just kind of ignore it. I know a lot of people in the tribe who are absolutely offended by it, though.

But yeah, as was pointed out earlier, Native Americans make up a RIDICULOUSLY small percentage of the population. It's also fair to point out that a majority of Native Americans probably AREN'T offended by the term Redskin, as many Native Americans are Cherokee, i.e. many of their ancestors bred heavily with colonists, usually far back, and so, even if they accept Cherokee culture, many don't have the physical features of any Native American tribe. 

Anyways, back on subject, I like the Redskins and don't mind their name anymore, but I know first-hand how people can get offended by it. It would be like having a team called the "Washington Savages" with their current mascot. Again, that's a slur that I heard a lot growing up, usually because some kids picked it up from TV and started using it on me, but now it's kind of just a word to me. However, many people would be offended by it. So a change is probably due.

I'm in love with the name "Washington Pigskins." 

[ramssuperbowl99]

Just now, PARROTHEAD said:

The Powhatans want the name actually. NO OTHER TRIBE matters on the subject. Its not offensive to the Powhatan people because it was the original way the English referred to them when first landing in Jamestown.

I wasn't able to find any confirmation that the Powhatan tribe is in favor of this. Do you have a statement from them?

I would disagree on this the other trebles not mattering, precisely because the word used is "Redskin' and not the name of a specific tribe. I agree with your general point: we don't need the approval of modern day Greece for Michigan State to be the Spartans or anything like that. And while the term 'redskin' originated in the area, it was used by Europeans to describe all kinds of tribes. And that's the key difference: the word, and by extension the team identity, is not representation of the Powhatans or another specific tribe. It's representation of an outsider's reductive view of who they are. 

 

Just now, PARROTHEAD said:

Now I do think the name should be changed to Powhatan. To honor them and them only in a more proper way. But input about any other tribe should have no merit on the matter.

If there was a way to change the name and turn a negative representation into something positive like FSU, that'd be a huge win for everyone involved including the NFL. But Dan Snyder is simply incapable of leading that change, so I don't see how saying "well change it to a positive representation" is a realistic scenario.

[HoboRocket]

24 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

The Powhatans do. Which is the only tribe this team represents in the first place. My usual Redskin Section rant. Its a Powhatan on the helmet. The word comes from the English landing in Jamestown not knowing how to communicate with the Powhatan tribespeople and sending word home of redskined people. What any other tribe wants is meaningless. Cause they were completely different nations entirely. Like with the Texans name. You dont need Russias blessing.

Right. Most people don't realize, but the Americas were a collection of many nations. Like, in the same way that Europe was. Some places had no association with others. Many places had established trade, commerce, and even whole cities. And the cities weren't just in Latin America. Some permanent cities, "proper cities," with walls and roads and everything, were destroyed. Some still remain. Arizona is littered with ruins. In California, they're pretty much all gone. Anyways, ultimately the decision should be up to the Powhatan Nation, though the racial slur still affects other people, as Native Americans all tend to get lumped into one group. 

[Joe_is_the_best]

Most Native Americans aren’t offended by the name. It seems like people are finding ways to be offended while Native Americans don't seem to care. Changing the name feels good, but doesn't actually help anyone. There are many great charities that help Native Americans. Supporting them is a better use of time & money.

[Malfatron]

Washington Muggles

[EaglesPeteC]

Or we shouldn’t name anything after people that we have an extensive history of killing and marginalizing, because that isn’t our culture to use 🤷‍♀️

[ramssuperbowl99]

21 minutes ago, HoboRocket said:

So, I'm a full-blood Luiseño, and personally, I'm not offended by the term "Redskin." I used to be, but sadly, I guess I've been desensitized to racial slurs towards Native Americans over time. Same thing with the stereotypes that we're all drunks who live on the Rez and just take our handouts from Casinos. I've heard so many people say crap like that, and now I just kind of ignore it. I know a lot of people in the tribe who are absolutely offended by it, though.

But yeah, as was pointed out earlier, Native Americans make up a RIDICULOUSLY small percentage of the population. It's also fair to point out that a majority of Native Americans probably AREN'T offended by the term Redskin, as many Native Americans are Cherokee, i.e. many of their ancestors bred heavily with colonists, usually far back, and so, even if they accept Cherokee culture, many don't have the physical features of any Native American tribe. 

Anyways, back on subject, I like the Redskins and don't mind their name anymore, but I know first-hand how people can get offended by it. It would be like having a team called the "Washington Savages" with their current mascot. Again, that's a slur that I heard a lot growing up, usually because some kids picked it up from TV and started using it on me, but now it's kind of just a word to me. However, many people would be offended by it. So a change is probably due.

I'm in love with the name "Washington Pigskins." 

Thanks for posting this, I appreciated hearing your take.

[PARROTHEAD]

1 minute ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I wasn't able to find any confirmation that the Powhatan tribe is in favor of this. Do you have a statement from them?

I would disagree on this the other trebles not mattering, precisely because the word used is "Redskin' and not the name of a specific tribe. I agree with your general point: we don't need the approval of modern day Greece for Michigan State to be the Spartans or anything like that. And while the term 'redskin' originated in the area, it was used by Europeans to describe all kinds of tribes. And that's the key difference: the word, and by extension the team identity, is not representation of the Powhatans or another specific tribe. It's representation of an outsider's reductive view of who they are. 

 

If there was a way to change the name and turn a negative representation into something positive like FSU, that'd be a huge win for everyone involved including the NFL. But Dan Snyder is simply incapable of leading that change, so I don't see how saying "well change it to a positive representation" is a realistic scenario.

Us area Redskin fans have local shows TV and Radio like "Redskin Nation" which have invited Powhatan and even other tribe leaders/heads/members on for interviews. Outside that I dont know how much can be found written.  Last time this topic came up strong a few years back. I think every day for 2 months on Redskins Nation they had different tribe heads/members on the show. I remember 1 being from Alaska and his tribe consisted of like 60 people. But he was in support of the name so they had him on.

 

[sp6488]

34 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I was just about to post something similar.  Personally, I think the name should be changed, but there is evidence out there that this is mostly non-Native American people deciding what's racist and offensive for Native Americans than it is Native Americans deciding what's racist and offensive for themselves.

If it were up to me, I'd change the name and be done with it.  But I think Snyder will hold out as long a possible.

I'm definitely open to discussing it. I just don't like people assuming facts not in evidence (or worse, stating the opposite of what we do appear to know) to make their case.

[offbyone]

If the redskins cave, will this break the dam of sports political correctness?  Will the chiefs also have to change their name?  the Indians?  The Pirates?  Will names even like Raiders and Vikings be considered offensive?  Where do we draw the line?

[Forge]

52 minutes ago, HoboRocket said:

So, I'm a full-blood Luiseño, and personally, I'm not offended by the term "Redskin." I used to be, but sadly, I guess I've been desensitized to racial slurs towards Native Americans over time. Same thing with the stereotypes that we're all drunks who live on the Rez and just take our handouts from Casinos. I've heard so many people say crap like that, and now I just kind of ignore it. I know a lot of people in the tribe who are absolutely offended by it, though.

But yeah, as was pointed out earlier, Native Americans make up a RIDICULOUSLY small percentage of the population. It's also fair to point out that a majority of Native Americans probably AREN'T offended by the term Redskin, as many Native Americans are Cherokee, i.e. many of their ancestors bred heavily with colonists, usually far back, and so, even if they accept Cherokee culture, many don't have the physical features of any Native American tribe. 

Anyways, back on subject, I like the Redskins and don't mind their name anymore, but I know first-hand how people can get offended by it. It would be like having a team called the "Washington Savages" with their current mascot. Again, that's a slur that I heard a lot growing up, usually because some kids picked it up from TV and started using it on me, but now it's kind of just a word to me. However, many people would be offended by it. So a change is probably due.

I'm in love with the name "Washington Pigskins." 

My mother was a big time Native American activist for decades (the amount of diatribes I heard growing up about the great injustice of Leonard Peltier was insane) and was grossly offended by the name, and spent forever complaining about the term. Myself on the other hand, I didn't really care.  It's honestly sort of a weird situation. I think the people who are offended by it are greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeatly offended by it, as though it's one of the greatest affronts to humankind in existence, and then there are people who aren't at all. It's such a weird dichotomy between the two sides. 

[Forge]

9 minutes ago, offbyone said:

If the redskins cave, will this break the dam of sports political correctness?  Will the chiefs also have to change their name?  the Indians?  The Pirates?  Will names even like Raiders and Vikings be considered offensive?  Where do we draw the line?

That is the thing though...for the people who are offended by this...its not about political correctness. It's about something that is so much more than that. 

[RaidersAreOne]

I mean, I think it should be changed...?

[EaglesPeteC]

11 minutes ago, offbyone said:

If the redskins cave, will this break the dam of sports political correctness?  Will the chiefs also have to change their name?  the Indians?  The Pirates?  Will names even like Raiders and Vikings be considered offensive?  Where do we draw the line?

The line is simple. You don’t get to make a mascot out of a culture that isn’t yours. 

[scar988]

9 minutes ago, EaglesPeteC said:

The line is simple. You don’t get to make a mascot out of a culture that isn’t yours. 

I'm here for Dan Snyder making the Washington Latkes then. (I'm Jewish and Dan Snyder is also Jewish, and I think it'd be hilarious to see a team with a potato pancake as a mascot).