DerbyRam Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 51 minutes ago, Gmen said: The Rams had 3 receivers last year that would have been the #1 option on the Giants. And the Giants haven't had a good offensive line in over a decade. Goff isn't going to get much sympathy from me. Agreed. I’m not saying he’s got the worst situation in the league, but there is most definitely levels to the game. Goff with the 31st ranked oline and 26th ground game, put as many wins on the board last season as the Giants have in a much worse division in the past two seasons. On the Rams receivers, Robert Woods wasn’t even a sure thing coming out of Buffalo, but since he teamed up with Goff he’s put back-to-back career best seasons. Kupp is a third round receiver and was openly mocked during the draft process. Cooks worked with both Brady and Brees, yet had his best season with Goff. Well, until he took too many knocks on the head and started running in circles. I’m not saying that Goff is a transcendent talent either, but he’s most definitely the most under appreciated, over-criticised QB in the NFL at the moment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, DerbyRam said: Agreed. I’m not saying he’s got the worst situation in the league, but there is most definitely levels to the game. Goff with the 31st ranked oline and 26th ground game, put as many wins on the board last season as the Giants have in a much worse division in the past two seasons. On the Rams receivers, Robert Woods wasn’t even a sure thing coming out of Buffalo, but since he teamed up with Goff he’s put back-to-back career best seasons. Kupp is a third round receiver and was openly mocked during the draft process. Cooks worked with both Brady and Brees, yet had his best season with Goff. Well, until he took too many knocks on the head and started running in circles. I’m not saying that Goff is a transcendent talent either, but he’s most definitely the most under appreciated, over-criticised QB in the NFL at the moment. I remember Kupp getting tons of love, people just didn't like his athletic testing. He was a senior bowl darling. Edited July 10, 2020 by Jeezla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyRam Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Jeezla said: I remember Kupp getting tons of love, people just didn't like his athletic testing. He was a senior bowl darling. This was the video I was referring to: He certainly split opinion, either way I do think the point still stands that Goff wasn't handed proven weapons. I guess you could argue Cooks, but as I mentioned he had his best season under Goff despite playing with two of the best QBs to play the game and he never went to a probowl. Woods was far from considered a good WR in the NFL. He was decidedly average in Buffalo. He changed the trajectory of his career joining the Rams and Kupp was a third round pick. As good as both have been, neither have yet made the probowl. Baker Mayfield had two wide receivers last season, Landry and Beckham, who have 8 probowl appearances between them. He also had a better running offence, better offensive line and similarly rated defences. The Rams went 9-7 and the Browns went 6-10. The only way that happened is because of Goff throwing the third most offensive yards in the NFL. He put us in the positions to allow the likes of Brown & Gurley, both of who struggled to get any sort of length on their rushes, to pound the ball over the goalline. The reason Gurley got so many TDs last year was due to Goff's work marching the team up the field. Gurley didn't have 1 game over 100 rushing yards - not a single game. He was the Rams bell cow back. Mike Boone had more games last year with 100+ rushing yards than Gurley and he only played more than 50% of offensive snaps in one game and that was 57%. I just don't buy the story that Goff has had everything handed to him and he needs ideal conditions to succeed. Edited July 10, 2020 by DerbyRam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) @Gmen He was listening to us... Loves his toughness, rides him for lack of pocket awareness. Seems to be pro Shurmur rather than pro-Jones, like he's coming at the lack of PA from the POV of Shurmur knows DJ is bad when he holds on for too long - which I think is a bit presumptuous as we can't really tell if it's a PA-sparce offense? PA almost always helps a QB's rating and Brett pointed out that Jones was 37th in PA pass attempts. Some other stuff Edited July 14, 2020 by Hunter2_1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 36 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said: Loves his toughness, rides him for lack of pocket awareness. Seems to be pro Shurmur rather than pro-Jones, like he's coming at the lack of PA from the POV of Shurmur knows DJ is bad when he holds on for too long - which I think is a bit presumptuous as we can't really tell if it's a PA-sparce offense? PA almost always helps a QB's rating and Brett pointed out that Jones was 37th in PA pass attempts. Some other stuff Shurmer ranked 1st in play-action percentage in 2017 when he was OC in Minnesota. You don't go from 1st to last in PA passing over just a couple of years unless you think it wouldn't put your QB in a position to succeed. And it's not like Minnesota's 2017 OL was any better than NYG's 2019 OL. I think that video perfectly summed up my main issues with Jones: Extreme lack of pocket awareness Extremely turnover-prone Boneheaded decisions against zone defenses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 2 things that always shock me in these threads: 1. When people harp on the run game when every advanced stat/analyst on the planet has said its very low correlation. Obvi there can be exceptions to the rule, like Derrick Henry facing a loaded box on like 60% of the plays. But that is sooooooo rare. 2. People who still think Wentz is better when the EAGLES OWN PUBLICATIONS PICK DAK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) AFCN - Lamar Jackson (1, #3 overall), Ben Roethlisberger (2), Joe Burrow (3), Baker Mayfield (4), Case Keenum (5) AFCE - Tua Tagovailoa (1), Josh Allen (2), Sam Darnold (3), Cam Newton (4), Ryan Fitzpatrick (5) AFCS - Deshaun Watson (1, #4 overall), Philip Rivers (2), Ryan Tannehill (3), Garner Minshew (4), Jacoby Brissett (5) AFCW - Patrick Mahomes (1, #1 overall), Derek Carr (2), Drew Lock (3), Marcus Mariota (4), Justin Herbert (5) NFCN - Aaron Rodgers (1, #5 overall), Matthew Stafford (2), Kirk Cousins (3), Jordan Love (4), Nick Foles (5) NFCE - Carson Wentz (1, #6 overall), Dak Prescott (2, #7 overall), Daniel Jones (3), Andy Dalton (4), Dwayne Haskins (5), NFCS - Tom Brady (1, #8 overall), Drew Brees (2, #9 overall), Matt Ryan (3, #10 overall), Jameis Winston (4), Teddy Bridgewater (5) NFCW - Russell Wilson (1, #2 overall), Kyler Murray (2), Jared Goff (3), Jimmy Garoppolo (4), Nick Mullens (5) Edited July 15, 2020 by Trojan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 11 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said: Shurmer ranked 1st in play-action percentage in 2017 when he was OC in Minnesota. You don't go from 1st to last in PA passing over just a couple of years unless you think it wouldn't put your QB in a position to succeed. And it's not like Minnesota's 2017 OL was any better than NYG's 2019 OL. I think that video perfectly summed up my main issues with Jones: Extreme lack of pocket awareness Extremely turnover-prone Boneheaded decisions against zone defenses Hard to argue with that. It's all true and exemplified. He does, however, admit Jones is better than he originally thought he'd be. I didn't expect the Winston comp, but I guess it makes sense with his giveth and taketh away approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 On 7/10/2020 at 5:35 AM, DerbyRam said: Baker Mayfield had two wide receivers last season, Landry and Beckham, who have 8 probowl appearances between them. He also had a better running offence, better offensive line and similarly rated defences. The Rams went 9-7 and the Browns went 6-10. The only way that happened is because of Goff throwing the third most offensive yards in the NFL that only happens because Goff has one of the best offensive minds in the NFL and Baker had the best offensive mind from the Alabama trailer park. Browns had the better RB but not the better running offense. Kitchens had no idea how to build off the running game or build around it. Its way so many fans are excited about Stef because he knows how to do that. Better offensive line? that might be a wash. there is a reason the browns have replaced both their tackles this past offseason cause Robinson and Hubbard were god awful. Also the Browns had a pretty horrible run defense. Dont let their passing numbers fool you. Teams knew it was easier to run the ball than pass. Football outsiders ranks the Rams defense around a middle of a road defense, where they were ranking the Browns defense as bottom in the league. I feel like McVay would have had a field running the Browns offense. I feel like they are built for his scheme, another reason why Browns fans are excited for Stef. Just because Goff had a better year than the Browns, doesnt make him better than what he is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 On 7/14/2020 at 10:57 PM, Trojan said: AFCN - Lamar Jackson (1, #3 overall), Ben Roethlisberger (2), Joe Burrow (3), Baker Mayfield (4), Case Keenum (5) AFCE - Tua Tagovailoa (1), Josh Allen (2), Sam Darnold (3), Cam Newton (4), Ryan Fitzpatrick (5) AFCS - Deshaun Watson (1, #4 overall), Philip Rivers (2), Ryan Tannehill (3), Garner Minshew (4), Jacoby Brissett (5) AFCW - Patrick Mahomes (1, #1 overall), Derek Carr (2), Drew Lock (3), Marcus Mariota (4), Justin Herbert (5) NFCN - Aaron Rodgers (1, #5 overall), Matthew Stafford (2), Kirk Cousins (3), Jordan Love (4), Nick Foles (5) NFCE - Carson Wentz (1, #6 overall), Dak Prescott (2, #7 overall), Daniel Jones (3), Andy Dalton (4), Dwayne Haskins (5), NFCS - Tom Brady (1, #8 overall), Drew Brees (2, #9 overall), Matt Ryan (3, #10 overall), Jameis Winston (4), Teddy Bridgewater (5) NFCW - Russell Wilson (1, #2 overall), Kyler Murray (2), Jared Goff (3), Jimmy Garoppolo (4), Nick Mullens (5) I disagree with these. Burrows is not better than Baker. We havent seen Burrows take a single snap in the NFL. Yeah the dude was amazing in college but that doesnt mean it carries over into the NFL. Also he wont hold a talent advantage with his teammates across the board like he did with LSU. He could end up as the best QB in the AFC north down the road but he has to prove it. Also think some are greatly underrating Baker or that they truly had no idea how bad Kitchen was for his development last year with his horrible Arians type offense he tried installing. Tua isnt the best QB in the East. Dude had a pretty serious injury and we have to see how that impacts him going on. I really dont want to see him play at all his rookie year. Major injuries usually take 12-18months to fully recover from. I would hate to see him battling himself and trying to battle NFL defenses. To me the East is either Allen or Newton. NFC south, I would say Bridgewater is better than Winston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans_Matt Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 AFCN - Lamar, Burrow, Baker, Roethlisberger AFCE - Newton, Tua, Allen, Darnold, AFCS - Watson, Tannehill, Rivers, Minshew AFCW - Mahomes, Lock, Carr, Taylor NFCN - Rodgers, Stafford, Cousins, Trubisky NFCE - Wentz, Dak, Jones, Haskins NFCS - Brees, Brady, Ryan, Bridgewater NFCW - Wilson, Murray, Goff, Garoppolo I'll also rank them by overall best 1) AFC North 2) NFC South 3) NFC West 4) NFC North 5) AFC South 6) AFC West 7) NFC East 8) AFC East Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Only really looking at NFCN. Surprised and happy about the love for Stafford. Especially over Cousins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) On 7/9/2020 at 5:01 PM, DerbyRam said: Kupp is a third round receiver and was openly mocked during the draft process. You wouldn’t say “is a 6th round draft pick, took years to earn a role on game day, was widely mocked during the draft process” to describe Antonio Brown unless you were trying to undersell him... Put some respeck on Kupp’s name Edited July 20, 2020 by Yin-Yang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesPeteC Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Good to see the majority of you are doing the right thing and putting Wentz over Dak while Matts screams into the void Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Goff right now is much better than Kyler Murray and Garropolo. Anyone who thinks otherwise either hasn’t played football or doesn’t understand the QB position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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