Who has the best roster?

[ttitansfan4life]

49 minutes ago, EagleBlueDon said:

Because Ryan Tannehill is your quarterback and you rely on Henry too much. Flash on the pan season imo. That's all I need to know.

Oh yea the guy who had a huge hand in turning the whole season around... clearly you have no idea about anything Titan related. Funny how the team went 2-4 without him and were struggling big time to put up points and he comes in and leads them to a 7-3 record and one of the highest scoring offenses in the league. I’m sure that was all Henry though who was the RB in those first 6 games....

[EagleBlueDon]

8 minutes ago, ttitansfan4life said:

Oh yea the guy who had a huge hand in turning the whole season around... clearly you have no idea about anything Titan related. Funny how the team went 2-4 without him and were struggling big time to put up points and he comes in and leads them to a 7-3 record and one of the highest scoring offenses in the league. I’m sure that was all Henry though who was the RB in those first 6 games....

Sorry man I'm just not a Titan believer. I don't think they come close to replicating what they did last year. I don't have a lot of cold hard facts and stats why. Just not a believer.

[Jeezla]

21 hours ago, Danger said:

That's like taking the turkey out of a thanksgiving dinner.

Would you rather have just turkey, or a combination of mashed potatoes, ham, stuffing, gravy, greens, buttered rolls, yams/sweet potatoes, and a slice of pumpkin pie, but no turkey? 

Maholmes is the best item on the menu, by far, but the Saints still offer a more complete meal on paper. NO has the more talented player at like 16 of the 22 starting positions on offense and defense compared to KC. Saints have the better roster. Chiefs had the better team.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Jeezla

[Hunter2_1]

14 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said:

I mean it’s not just Byard and Henry though. Sure they may be the elite players but you have top 10 LT who at times plays top 5 in Lewan and the OL as a unit are what top 5? Top 8? A up and coming start in AJ Brown. Actually a pretty good receiving core overall with Brown, Davis, and Humphries. Jonnu Smith is also someone who has improved every year despite two knee injuries. People can debate Tannehill all they want but fact is he played like a top QB last year when he became the starter. Do I expect I a drop off? Sure but the offense is perfect fit him and he has the weapons and protection to succeed. Defensively has a lot of very good players. Maybe the only elite player is Byard but when you add guys like Vaccaro, Adoree Jackson, and Malcolm Butler, that makes a pretty good secondary. Maybe 2nd round pick Kristian Fulton isn’t very good but who knows. Guys like Rashaan Evans and Jayon Brown make up an incredible ILB duo. Sure they may not rack up individual accolades but Brown is one of the best coverage LBs in the league. No elite pass-rushers and they traded Casey away for peanuts but still a pretty solid front with Harold Landry, Vic Beasley, Correa, DaQuan Jones, Jeffrey Simmons, and possibly Clowney(obviously hypothetical). Top to bottom, I honestly don’t see 10 rosters better and I for sure will admit if they are not worthy. They definitely are especially with teams like Cleveland, Tampa, Buffalo, Rams, Chargers, and the Eagles being on here.

You have an issue with Cleveland and TB being in there? They are stacked.

Agreed about your OL and I really like Lewan, but otherwise you've said it yourself - an up and coming WR, a TE who has improved every year (I also really like him), you talk about the QB being a perfect fit - that's nothing to do with 'talented roster' that proves my point above about 'being greater than the sum of their parts'. Then you said it yourself about the only elite player on D being Byard. I think the lack of pass rush (as alluded to by Titan fans) hurts the roster on paper. Then you mention 'possibly' getting Clowney.

So your case kind of admits why it's not a top 10 roster on paper. I could have put it on within the same ball park as the LA teams as you mention, but even they either have elite WRs, elite Pass Rush or both. 

I look at TEN as a scary team but not because of on-paper talent necessary. 

[dtait93]

21 hours ago, EagleBlueDon said:

Because Ryan Tannehill is your quarterback and you rely on Henry too much. Flash on the pan season imo. That's all I need to know.

Maybe we won’t reach the AFCCG again but “falling off a cliff” is a pretty funny analysis when we’ve gone 9-7 since 2016 (with Mariota as the QB for most of it). We’re one of the more consistent and well balanced teams in the league.

Edited July 11, 2020 by dtait93

[EagleBlueDon]

1 hour ago, dtait93 said:

Maybe we won’t reach the AFCCG again but “falling off a cliff” is a pretty funny analysis when we’ve gone 9-7 since 2016 (with Mariota as the QB for most of it). We’re one of the more consistent and well balanced teams in the league.

Yeah I have you falling off the AFCCG cliff. I think you miss the playoffs to be frank. Going from a CCG to missing the playoffs is falling off a cliff in my book.

[Archimedes]

22 hours ago, Jeezla said:

Would you rather have just turkey, or a combination of mashed potatoes, ham, stuffing, gravy, greens, buttered rolls, yams/sweet potatoes, and a slice of pumpkin pie, but no turkey? 

Maholmes is the best item on the menu, by far, but the Saints still offer a more complete meal on paper. NO has the more talented player at like 16 of the 22 starting positions on offense and defense compared to KC. Saints have the better roster. Chiefs had the better team.

The Saints roster is definitely loaded, and it's probably better than KC's outside of QB. I remember entering the playoffs, there was a local radio guy here who thought they were the best wildcard team since the Broncos who won it all in 97, and I agreed with him. The problem is it's just impossible for me to separate the QB from the rest of the roster. At the most important position on the field, the Chiefs have a rather LARGE gulf for an advantage. I think the gulf of Mahomes vs Brees dwarfs the gulf of the rest of the Saints roster vs the rest of the Chiefs roster. 

And to answer your question about turkey, I've always been a main course kind of guy. 

[Jeezla]

5 hours ago, Archimedes said:

The Saints roster is definitely loaded, and it's probably better than KC's outside of QB. I remember entering the playoffs, there was a local radio guy here who thought they were the best wildcard team since the Broncos who won it all in 97, and I agreed with him. The problem is it's just impossible for me to separate the QB from the rest of the roster. At the most important position on the field, the Chiefs have a rather LARGE gulf for an advantage. I think the gulf of Mahomes vs Brees dwarfs the gulf of the rest of the Saints roster vs the rest of the Chiefs roster. 

And to answer your question about turkey, I've always been a main course kind of guy. 

Being an Eagles fan, I place a certain weight on backup QB's. The Saints backup is Jameis. The Chiefs backup is Chad Henne. If something were to happen to the starter, the Saints are still a playoff team and The Chiefs would be bad. Really bad if Chris Jones holds out. A great roster, imo, allows you to succeed even when your starting QB goes down, and the Chiefs don't have that. The Chiefs are the Kawhi Raptors. The Saints are the 76ers. 76ers had the better roster top to bottom, but the best roster doesn't go hand-in-hand with winning championships. You can have the best roster, but still not be the best team.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Jeezla

[wackywabbit]

On 7/9/2020 at 8:41 PM, Jeezla said:

If you took QB's out of the equation, there is no way anybody votes for KC.

The Kansas city offense was literally 5th in DVOA with Alex Smith at QB. They have elite skill players and a top and complete offensive line. Plus they have two top 10-20 defensive players. 

I think your statement could apply just as much or more to Baltimore, who is winning this poll. No one would be calling that a very talented offensive if Lamar wasn't there. The skill position players are NOT special. The fact that Ingram and Gus Edwards are 5+ YPC backs is because of the QB. Even if Hollywood breaks out, it's one of the weaker WR groups; if he doesn't it's a big problem. Andrews is a very good, but not elite TE. The two tackles are a strength, but they certainly didn't look this elite with a non-mobile QB behind them. The interior of the O-line has hardly anything proven above replacement level with Yanda gone. Take QB out of the equation and without defenses scared of flushing the QB out of the pocket, that interior offensive line would 100% be a major exploit.

Then add back the QBs and Mahomes is a better individual player than Lamar. Baltimore has to make up that ground on the defense, which they do. But, it's far from a perfect unit, as it's WELL below average in terms of pass rushing talent and the inside linebacker position is completely unproven.

[Jakuvious]

15 hours ago, Jeezla said:

Being an Eagles fan, I place a certain weight on backup QB's. The Saints backup is Jameis. The Chiefs backup is Chad Henne. If something were to happen to the starter, the Saints are still a playoff team and The Chiefs would be bad. Really bad if Chris Jones holds out. A great roster, imo, allows you to succeed even when your starting QB goes down, and the Chiefs don't have that. The Chiefs are the Kawhi Raptors. The Saints are the 76ers. 76ers had the better roster top to bottom, but the best roster doesn't go hand-in-hand with winning championships. You can have the best roster, but still not be the best team.

If only we could have gotten a glimpse at how competitive KC's roster could still be with an injury to a star QB last year.

[Jeezla]

43 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

If only we could have gotten a glimpse at how competitive KC's roster could still be with an injury to a star QB last year.

They went 1-1. The Saints went 5-1 with Bridgewater. Do you think the Chiefs would have gone 5-1 without Mahoney? Probably not.

The NBA all-star teams have better rosters than the GS or LA or SA championship teams, but that doesn't mean the all-star teams would win if they played a game.

Best Roster = best overall collection of talent on paper, regardless of whether or not they win anything. And that's NO. I don't get what is so hard to understand here.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Jeezla

[Jakuvious]

4 minutes ago, Jeezla said:

They went 1-1. The Saints went 5-1 with Bridgewater. Do you think the Chiefs would have gone 5-1 without Mahoney?

2-1. We barely had Pat against Denver. Score was 10-7 when Moore went in. 3 quarters left to play.

As for 5-1, I don't know. Depends on the stretch of schedule. But that's not the argument. You said the Chiefs would be bad without Mahomes. They were not. We went 2-1 without. 1-1 against playoff teams. Played Green Bay real close. Pretty sure it was a 1 score game in the end. You also said they'd be really bad without Mahomes and Jones. Well, Jones missed 2 of those games as well. So they were not really bad in that scenario either. They went 1-1 in those two games. He came back against Minnesota.

Bridgewater is also a better QB than either team has as a backup now, for the record. I think it more likely the Chiefs go 5-1 with Bridgewater than with Moore. I also don't think the Saints go 5-1 with Winston instead. Mistake prone backups aren't ideal. Lead to more volatility, less consistency. Bridgewater was a good placeholder, same as Moore. Didn't screw up what the rest of the roster was able to do.

Regardless, point stands. You said they'd be bad without Mahomes, they weren't. You said they'd be really bad without Mahomes and Jones, and they weren't. And this thread is about the entire roster, so fortunately, it still includes those two players anyway.

[Jeezla]

1 minute ago, Jakuvious said:

2-1. We barely had Pat against Denver. Score was 10-7 when Moore went in. 3 quarters left to play.

As for 5-1, I don't know. Depends on the stretch of schedule. But that's not the argument. You said the Chiefs would be bad without Mahomes. They were not. We went 2-1 without. 1-1 against playoff teams. Played Green Bay real close. Pretty sure it was a 1 score game in the end. You also said they'd be really bad without Mahomes and Jones. Well, Jones missed 2 of those games as well. So they were not really bad in that scenario either. They went 1-1 in those two games. He came back against Minnesota.

Bridgewater is also a better QB than either team has as a backup now, for the record. I think it more likely the Chiefs go 5-1 with Bridgewater than with Moore. I also don't think the Saints go 5-1 with Winston instead. Mistake prone backups aren't ideal. Lead to more volatility, less consistency. Bridgewater was a good placeholder, same as Moore. Didn't screw up what the rest of the roster was able to do.

Regardless, point stands. You said they'd be bad without Mahomes, they weren't. You said they'd be really bad without Mahomes and Jones, and they weren't. And this thread is about the entire roster, so fortunately, it still includes those two players anyway.

The Chiefs would be bad THIS YEAR without Maholmes is what I'm saying. Chad Henne sucks. Matt Moore has always been "serviceable" as a back up. Chad Henne is usually an auto-loss. I forgot you signed Ta'amu though. That's not too bad. You wouldn't suck if Ta'amu goes in, but if Chad Henne goes in for multiple games, then you are getting multiple losses.

[Jakuvious]

8 minutes ago, Jeezla said:

The Chiefs would be bad THIS YEAR without Maholmes is what I'm saying. Chad Henne sucks. Matt Moore has always been "serviceable" as a back up. Chad Henne is usually an auto-loss. I forgot you signed Ta'amu though. That's not too bad. You wouldn't suck if Ta'amu goes in, but if Chad Henne goes in for multiple games, then you are getting multiple losses.

We still have Matt Moore... This is basically the same roster as last year. Almost entirely. It is literally the same QB depth chart that we had last year. If your argument is that the roster has now become less capable, you're going to need to offer way more information than what you have so far.

[Jeezla]

7 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

We still have Matt Moore... This is basically the same roster as last year. Almost entirely. It is literally the same QB depth chart that we had last year. If your argument is that the roster has now become less capable, you're going to need to offer way more information than what you have so far.

I didn't see Moore on the roster on your teams official site. I see Mahoney, Henne, Ta-amu, Sea Patterson. No Moore.

Are you sure he didn't retire?

Again, imo you went 1-1 without Mahoney. Not much of a sample one way or another. Would you draft top 5 without Maholmes for 10+ games? Probably not. Would you make the playoffs? Probably not.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Jeezla