2021 NFL Draft Prospects

[diamondbull424]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

WR?  You have Brown, Snead, Boykin and Duvernay and Proche.  It would be a wasted pick to get another WR 1st round.  If anything another TE could make more sense so they can have three good ones again, Adams and Breeland have ability too but too bad Boyle was hurt. Sure they should get one but could wait for someone like St. Brown, Surratt, Vaughns, Philyor, Dyami Brown, Coxie, Adams or Grimes in the later rounds and still get another weapon but fill the real need which to me seems to be center.  

 

Lucky for them Trey Hill is a good center, Dickerson is awesome, Heggie is good, Drake Jackson is decent, Cade Stewart or Chris Owens could be good 6th or 7th round picks.  So there are guys who could be ok and drafted later on, but I would say in terms of quality depth WR is way deeper position than center.  Creed Humphrey is not as good as Myers is, Humphrey gets pushed around a lot at times but depends on how much you want the center to pull and move.  Myers has been key to a dominating run game for Ohio State the past two years and he is critical in all of it along with Wyatt Davis.  Seems to make sense for the Ravens.  

But it wouldn’t be a waste. First Snead isn’t under contract and likely isn’t going to be brought back.

Whats more I don’t think your analysis takes into account any sort of QB fit or scheme fit. You also listed a bunch of JAG receivers, we don’t need JAG receivers as we already have those guys- the guys you mentioned already within our WR room. Adding another JAG receiver would be a waste.

The problem ultimately is a combination of talent but also scheme. Within this current scheme, the only WRs that can consistently produce are ones with uber talent- like Hollywood Brown. We tried using Duvernay as an overall WR and he fails at tracking the football or highpointing the football. Boykin is only average at it. Hollywood and Andrews both excel in that area and that’s the kind of WR Lamar needs. Ideally the guy would be a physical freak as well, but... you can only get them where you fit them.

Thus someone that is talented to rise above an incredibly terrible scheme that can also track the football and make plays, ie an impact talent is needed. Amon-Ra has talent, but he’s not a fit within this offense, he doesn’t bring enough separation ability off his route releases to consistently win with these terrible route concepts. He’s also not good in contested situations. Olave while not Julio Jones or anything provides the requisite amount of contested catch ability needed to help Lamar if the ball doesn’t have optimal ball placement. Same with Bateman. They also both provide sophisticated route releases that even with these terrible routes would allow them to have a chance at success, like with Brown.

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

I will be honest I’m slightly confused by your post. Are you referring to 1st round prospects when you mention Josh Myers or just in general?

My opinion on Myers is that he’s got issues with balance, some decision making errors with stunts, and his snaps aren’t always pristine either... which is the main issue with our center position, not necessarily talent. I don’t think Myers upgrades what we have in Mekari... in those 25 mph crosswinds, Myers snapping history (can also throw Creed’s snapping history in there as well) makes me particularly uncomfortable they’re upgrading that component. So what I’m looking for is a dominant presence, that’s not Myers. He blocks in a similar manner to Mekari, he’s probably the same player all in all, though with more balance issues.

Myers isn’t a 1st round pick and I arguably wouldn’t take him in the 3rd round either because again, he’s not upgrading the talent of the interior. He’d be another JAG IOL. He doesn’t dominate 1v1 like I see from Creed. Wyatt Davis at OG would do more to upgrade the unit than overreacting to Mekari’s worst snapping performance. It was indeed terrible, but what’s the point of drafting Myers if he brings the same snapping baggage to the table... only he’s played the center position for at least 3 years now.
——

You also won’t find me a huge Landon Dickerson fan either. He’s a well rated run blocker, but he’s also playing against overwhelmed DL’s because of all the other talent on that Alabama line. I constantly see him on the ground due to balance issues in the run game. In pass pro he’s not exceptionally rated because he doesn’t hold up 1v1 consistently. I’ve seen plenty of times in the games/tape I’ve watched of him where in 1v1 he’s losing. I don’t see too many reps where Creed Humphrey loses, he’s a dominant talent, his non-elite rating comes from poor snaps... the only thing that gives me pause on him.
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Our IOL has enough JAG talents with guys like Ben Powers, Ben Bredeson, Bradley Bozeman (I remember when he too was getting all the Alabama center prospect hype), Trystan Colon-Castillo, etc.

It doesn’t matter if it’s a center or not, we need an elite people mover that dominates his guy. Creed Humphrey, Wyatt Davis, Alex Leatherwood, and Slater (not falling) provide that IMO.
——

Now if you were just throwing out potential solutions to the center spot, I get you. I think the best fit from both a talent and snapping ability perspective is Drake Jackson, C, Kentucky. He really snaps some good balls (pause) and dominates his man in 1v1 conditions. He’s got great balance. He’s more of a phone booth option, but his movements skills aren’t any worse than a guy like Bozeman’s. Considering he’s not a fit for non-gap schemes and he’s not particularly hyped up, he probably is a 3rd/4th round guy. That’s who my ideal target, outside of gambling on Creed Humphrey having righted his snapping issues from his RS Sophomore season, would be at center. Creed and DJ would IMO best fit and upgrade the position.

Since they have Powers, Bredeson, Bozeman and Fluker and or Phillips center is the play not just a people mover.  They already have that arguably, sure not to the level of the HOF OG they lost off last years team but still.  Center is an issue but maybe Mekari's just had a bad game, either way those snaps were bad regardless of the wind, he is not a kicker here.  

Creed consistently plays against less talented DL game in and game out.  Sure some dislike Myers, I think he has played at a high level for a long time.  And Myers has snap issues?  I believe the game they had snapping issues on Ohio State was in a game Myers was out thus the snapping problems.  I feel he would fit well with the Ravens and is a better run blocker than Humphrey I feel.

As for receiver, again TE might be a better option because that offense is never going to be WR friendly unless they change some things and not sure there is a point to that.  It works offensively, just need to help that OL which was an issue all year without Yanda and with Stanley being hurt.  

 

Leatherwood is a potential star, so is Slater.  Davis I like but not sure he is a fit for that Ravens offense at all, he is not exactly a people mover but is athletic and can move well on the field just not a bull guard.  Leatherwood could be a beast, Slater is very good but should be a OT not a OG.  Sure the centers in Myers and Humphrey are not on the same level of talent as OTs like Leatherwood, Carman or Mayfield.  Both Carman and Mayfield could be monster guards I feel and are already solid RT types, Leatherwood I love his versatility.

As for Dickerson, that kid had a great season, sure previous years he was coming on but this past year he was elite and I love how he played.  He played better than any center in the nation I thought and that is why he won the award for the best center in the nation.  No reason to think he would be a bad pro at all.

Are any of the centers some Pouncey out there?  Of course not but it is what is available at the moment and again I feel C is the bigger need for them than OG where they have multiple options that could pan out over time.  Bozeman is a damn good player for the Ravens, so not sure how he was overrated coming out of Alabama.  He should have been picked a lot higher than he was and they were lucky to have him this year on that team.  

[BareYourTeeth]

8 hours ago, BareYourTeeth said:

While it would be ideal to draft a center like Creed Humphrey with our first pick and sign an established WR in FA we're probably going to be forced to draft a WR because I don't see anyone willingly coming here to play. Especially a guy like Allen Robinson after what he just went through in Chicago.

 

Going to have to go Rashod Bateman or Chris Olave in the first round and hope a center worth taking is still there in the second.

 

Or maybe I'm wrong? Really hope this happens, it would be so so huge.

[drd23]

Could just be that Robinson likes the idea of the blank check mentioned in the first tweet, but part of me does think that Lamar's popularity in the league would help some in potentially recruiting a FA WR

[diamondbull424]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Since they have Powers, Bredeson, Bozeman and Fluker and or Phillips center is the play not just a people mover.  They already have that arguably, sure not to the level of the HOF OG they lost off last years team but still.  Center is an issue but maybe Mekari's just had a bad game, either way those snaps were bad regardless of the wind, he is not a kicker here.  

Creed consistently plays against less talented DL game in and game out.  Sure some dislike Myers, I think he has played at a high level for a long time.  And Myers has snap issues?  I believe the game they had snapping issues on Ohio State was in a game Myers was out thus the snapping problems.  I feel he would fit well with the Ravens and is a better run blocker than Humphrey I feel.

As for receiver, again TE might be a better option because that offense is never going to be WR friendly unless they change some things and not sure there is a point to that.  It works offensively, just need to help that OL which was an issue all year without Yanda and with Stanley being hurt.

I don’t disagree that the Ravens should consider a TE, I do like Pat Freiermuth. However I’m of the mind that we need the best RECEIVER available. Whether it’s TE or WR, but only if that guy can be an impact receiver. WR would obviously be better because it would force Roman to HAVE to use the WR and thus spread defenses out. Roman’s scheme IS the problem in the passing attack.

In terms of Fluker, he’s a FA and unless he comes back cheap, he won’t likely be back. And Phillips... after what was the worst NFL season for a Ravens rookie that I’ve ever seen... please never mention his name ever again to me. He had one redeeming moment with that fumble recovery run for a 1st down, but he’s got Lamar killed on multiple occasions at OG and RT. He should not be considered in any long term plans as to why we should be avoiding positional spots.

Bozeman is nothing more than above average at best, he’s a JAG. He’s good enough to start, but not good enough to necessarily bring back on a second contract.

In terms of Myers, he’s absolutely not a 1st round pick. So I’m confused with where you’re going there. I think he’s a good center prospect that struggles with balance and recognizing stunts. NFL level DL exploit that at the next level much more than college players. Myers is good, but so is Mekari. Patrick Mekari absolutely had by far his worst game of the season. But he’s a college LT converted to center and has been bouncing around from multiple positions the last two seasons as needed. So him not being a “natural snapper” of the football, especially when thrown into 25 mph crosswinds, while not expected- isn’t entirely surprising.

So I could care less where the Ravens insert an elite IOL talent, only that they insert such a talent. If we do I feel confident that Bozeman and Mekari could compete for the starting center role while the elite IOL player advanced our IOL.

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Leatherwood is a potential star, so is Slater.  Davis I like but not sure he is a fit for that Ravens offense at all, he is not exactly a people mover but is athletic and can move well on the field just not a bull guard.  Leatherwood could be a beast, Slater is very good but should be a OT not a OG.  Sure the centers in Myers and Humphrey are not on the same level of talent as OTs like Leatherwood, Carman or Mayfield.  Both Carman and Mayfield could be monster guards I feel and are already solid RT types, Leatherwood I love his versatility.

As for Dickerson, that kid had a great season, sure previous years he was coming on but this past year he was elite and I love how he played.  He played better than any center in the nation I thought and that is why he won the award for the best center in the nation.  No reason to think he would be a bad pro at all.

Are any of the centers some Pouncey out there?  Of course not but it is what is available at the moment and again I feel C is the bigger need for them than OG where they have multiple options that could pan out over time.  Bozeman is a damn good player for the Ravens, so not sure how he was overrated coming out of Alabama.  He should have been picked a lot higher than he was and they were lucky to have him this year on that team.  

Leatherwood would be the ideal fit for the Ravens. Theres some potential for the fact that the Ravens might have to move on from Orlando Brown Jr in FA (I wouldn’t) or trade Stanley a couple years down the road. So Leatherwood would IMO be an elite OG/beast/star as you allude to, but he’d also be the perfect fit for that potential scenario. Essentially he would be what the team thought they were getting with Phillips (and before you say he was only a rookie, I get that, but he’s shown very little improvement all season, so again, we should not be banking on him in the slightest).

I also like Carmen, but have fallen off from some. I do like Mayfield, I think he has some Marshal Yanda potential to him if he kicks inside... and again, guys with OT versatility are attractive to our situation IMO.

In terms of Dickerson, I’ll give another rewatch of him at some point later, but his balance issues and the amount of help he received from his OGs, I felt hid him. But I’m willing for my initial tape reviews to be proven wrong under further analysis. Davis is a fit because we pull our OGs and he’s got that athleticism, I also saw him using that athleticism to really drive guys back. He’s not a mauler like a Kelechi Osemele, but he’s definitely a strong run blocker and would fit in our scheme. Davis reminds me of Ben Grubbs, but with greater power at the POA.

Edited January 18, 2021 by diamondbull424

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, BareYourTeeth said:

Or maybe I'm wrong? Really hope this happens, it would be so so huge.

 

42 minutes ago, drd23 said:

Could just be that Robinson likes the idea of the blank check mentioned in the first tweet, but part of me does think that Lamar's popularity in the league would help some in potentially recruiting a FA WR

Allen Robinson and Kenny Golladay are really the only two FA WRs I’d want us to target... and obviously the Lions will franchise KG. So really IMO it’s AR12 or bust for me. Maybe Chris Godwin, if he turns his playoffs around. I don’t want a guy that dominates the regular season but shrinks in the big moments.

[Ozzy]

45 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

I don’t disagree that the Ravens should consider a TE, I do like Pat Freiermuth. However I’m of the mind that we need the best RECEIVER available. Whether it’s TE or WR, but only if that guy can be an impact receiver. WR would obviously be better because it would force Roman to HAVE to use the WR and thus spread defenses out. Roman’s scheme IS the problem in the passing attack.

In terms of Fluker, he’s a FA and unless he comes back cheap, he won’t likely be back. And Phillips... after what was the worst NFL season for a Ravens rookie that I’ve ever seen... please never mention his name ever again to me. He had one redeeming moment with that fumble recovery run for a 1st down, but he’s got Lamar killed on multiple occasions at OG and RT. He should not be considered in any long term plans as to why we should be avoiding positional spots.

Bozeman is nothing more than above average at best, he’s a JAG. He’s good enough to start, but not good enough to necessarily bring back on a second contract.

In terms of Myers, he’s absolutely not a 1st round pick. So I’m confused with where you’re going there. I think he’s a good center prospect that struggles with balance and recognizing stunts. NFL level DL exploit that at the next level much more than college players. Myers is good, but so is Mekari. Patrick Mekari absolutely had by far his worst game of the season. But he’s a college LT converted to center and has been bouncing around from multiple positions the last two seasons as needed. So him not being a “natural snapper” of the football, especially when thrown into 25 mph crosswinds, while not expected- isn’t entirely surprising.

So I could care less where the Ravens insert an elite IOL talent, only that they insert such a talent. If we do I feel confident that Bozeman and Mekari could compete for the starting center role while the elite IOL player advanced our IOL.

Leatherwood would be the ideal fit for the Ravens. Theres some potential for the fact that the Ravens might have to move on from Orlando Brown Jr in FA (I wouldn’t) or trade Stanley a couple years down the road. So Leatherwood would IMO be an elite OG/beast/star as you allude to, but he’d also be the perfect fit for that potential scenario. Essentially he would be what the team thought they were getting with Phillips (and before you say he was only a rookie, I get that, but he’s shown very little improvement all season, so again, we should not be banking on him in the slightest).

I also like Carmen, but have fallen off from some. I do like Mayfield, I think he has some Marshal Yanda potential to him if he kicks inside... and again, guys with OT versatility are attractive to our situation IMO.

In terms of Dickerson, I’ll give another rewatch of him at some point later, but his balance issues and the amount of help he received from his OGs, I felt hid him. But I’m willing for my initial tape reviews to be proven wrong under further analysis. Davis is a fit because we pull our OGs and he’s got that athleticism, I also saw him using that athleticism to really drive guys back. He’s not a mauler like a Kelechi Osemele, but he’s definitely a strong run blocker and would fit in our scheme. Davis reminds me of Ben Grubbs, but with greater power at the POA.

I disliked Phillips as well and I was shocked to see him drafted as high as he was.  Kid got killed in the Senior bowl if I recall and I honestly never even noticed him on Miss State and was surprised when he was drafted by the Ravens.  Thought they would make him a guard because they needed one but surprised they did not get one last year.  Guess they did later on.  Fluker was a long shot as well but at least has some size and can push dudes a little.

You think they would move on from Orlando Brown Jr?  That would be an awful choice.  He is a freaking two time Pro bowler that has been paid nothing because he was a 3rd round pick.  He deserves a nice big contract from the Ravens and if he does not get one it is a joke.  He is the ideal OT for them and is a monster and the two Pro bowls help show it.  

 

I have Leatherwood long gone before the Ravens draft pick so I would be surprised if getting him is even an option.

Any OL with OT and OG versatility are always interesting.  Vera-Tucker and Leatherwood are the only two who have actually played both in college and are high level prospects.  But others could play it I am sure if asked.  

 

 

If the Ravens got the best WR in the 1st round there when they pick because the best ones are gone, it would be Elijah Moore, Rondale Moore, Kadarius Toney or Rashod Bateman.  Would any of those guys really make that offense that much better, not sure about that.  Could help but again in that system they got some WRs and really should focus more on another TE which they need at least three good ones honestly.  

But they could wait and get a damn good guard later on.  Trey Smith, Van Lanen, Deonte Brown, Aaron Banks, Tommy Kraemer, Royce Newman all would be good fits and are good solid run blockers.  Newman I really like and I think he could be a very good pro and is a great run blocker.  

Maybe they do stick with Mekari and go with OG instead.  Either way I feel it should be addressed before WR.  Vera-Tucker and Darrisaw I think both could play guard and both could be around possibly.  Again I have Leatherwood going to Chicago before the Ravens pick and Wyatt Davis going to Arizona before the Ravens pick so they are out.  Myers I still like in the right run system, and he could play guard also and might be even better as a guard.    

 

 

[DreamKid]

@diamondbull424 What do you think about a Emmanuel Sanders comp for Chris Olave?

Watching this Bucs-Saints game made me think of it.

[diamondbull424]

55 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I disliked Phillips as well and I was shocked to see him drafted as high as he was.  Kid got killed in the Senior bowl if I recall and I honestly never even noticed him on Miss State and was surprised when he was drafted by the Ravens.  Thought they would make him a guard because they needed one but surprised they did not get one last year.  Guess they did later on.  Fluker was a long shot as well but at least has some size and can push dudes a little.

You think they would move on from Orlando Brown Jr?  That would be an awful choice.  He is a freaking two time Pro bowler that has been paid nothing because he was a 3rd round pick.  He deserves a nice big contract from the Ravens and if he does not get one it is a joke.  He is the ideal OT for them and is a monster and the two Pro bowls help show it.  

 

I have Leatherwood long gone before the Ravens draft pick so I would be surprised if getting him is even an option.

Any OL with OT and OG versatility are always interesting.  Vera-Tucker and Leatherwood are the only two who have actually played both in college and are high level prospects.  But others could play it I am sure if asked.  

 

 

If the Ravens got the best WR in the 1st round there when they pick because the best ones are gone, it would be Elijah Moore, Rondale Moore, Kadarius Toney or Rashod Bateman.  Would any of those guys really make that offense that much better, not sure about that.  Could help but again in that system they got some WRs and really should focus more on another TE which they need at least three good ones honestly.  

But they could wait and get a damn good guard later on.  Trey Smith, Van Lanen, Deonte Brown, Aaron Banks, Tommy Kraemer, Royce Newman all would be good fits and are good solid run blockers.  Newman I really like and I think he could be a very good pro and is a great run blocker.  

Maybe they do stick with Mekari and go with OG instead.  Either way I feel it should be addressed before WR.  Vera-Tucker and Darrisaw I think both could play guard and both could be around possibly.  Again I have Leatherwood going to Chicago before the Ravens pick and Wyatt Davis going to Arizona before the Ravens pick so they are out.  Myers I still like in the right run system, and he could play guard also and might be even better as a guard.    

 

 

We wouldn’t be moving on from Orlando Brown Jr because we want to. He’s shown he’s a legit LT prospect in the NFL with his play this season. The Ravens might not have enough money to afford him. Nothing more than that.

They will have to hand out contracts to Mark Andrews, Orlando Brown Jr, Hollywood Brown in the coming years. If they sign Ngakoue because they traded for him, that would also be money gone. Perhaps they choose to sign an Allen Robinson at WR. Either way, they’re going to be in a position where the cap will be tight and a decision will have to be made between letting go of a great OT, letting go of a WR position they struggle to draft historically who has excelled, or a go-to TE in the league.

[drd23]

 

 

[DreamKid]

The last time we had pick #27 we used it to select Jimmy Smith. Of course we actually had pick #26, but the Bears screwed us(admitted fault) and time expired on the clock. The Bears were never properly punished for this and still owe us compensation. Scum.

[diamondbull424]

5 hours ago, DreamKid said:

@diamondbull424 What do you think about a Emmanuel Sanders comp for Chris Olave?

Watching this Bucs-Saints game made me think of it.

I think that’s a very strong comp for Olave. I don’t know if he’s got quite the same long speed, but considering he’s only 20 and still developing, while Sanders was 23 when he came into the league, he could certainly develop increased speed.

[BareYourTeeth]

9 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

 

Allen Robinson and Kenny Golladay are really the only two FA WRs I’d want us to target... and obviously the Lions will franchise KG. So really IMO it’s AR12 or bust for me. Maybe Chris Godwin, if he turns his playoffs around. I don’t want a guy that dominates the regular season but shrinks in the big moments.

Would you or do you think they would trade Golladay for our first round pick?

I also just remembered Marvin Jones is going to be a FA. If we miss out on the top three names that you mentioned he's another potential fit for us at WR.

[diamondbull424]

6 hours ago, BareYourTeeth said:

Would you or do you think they would trade Golladay for our first round pick?

I also just remembered Marvin Jones is going to be a FA. If we miss out on the top three names that you mentioned he's another potential fit for us at WR.

Marvin Jones is a quality WR but I think we need something more. In this system we need someone that can transcend the ineptitude of this offensive scheme. Not every WR is capable of doing that.

Perhaps they would trade their 1st for Golladay, but I wouldn’t. We already have limited draft resources as is, I’m also not as sure about Golladay as I am with Allen Robinson. If he’s a FA I don’t mind spending the money, but money+1st would be a no go. I’m not the most trusting of our front office’s ability to find WRs in the draft, but I trust them and this overall class enough that I wouldn’t overspend resources. Teams get themselves in trouble more often than not when doing that.

[BareYourTeeth]

5 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Marvin Jones is a quality WR but I think we need something more. In this system we need someone that can transcend the ineptitude of this offensive scheme. Not every WR is capable of doing that.

Perhaps they would trade their 1st for Golladay, but I wouldn’t. We already have limited draft resources as is, I’m also not as sure about Golladay as I am with Allen Robinson. If he’s a FA I don’t mind spending the money, but money+1st would be a no go. I’m not the most trusting of our front office’s ability to find WRs in the draft, but I trust them and this overall class enough that I wouldn’t overspend resources. Teams get themselves in trouble more often than not when doing that.

Yeah obviously I'd rather just sign ARob then trade for Golladay but if we miss out on him in FA I'm just worried come draft time all the top prospects, including Bateman and Olave, get taken and we're screwed once again. Which could easily happen.