SalvadorsDeli Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Who are the best center prospects in the draft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Ray Reed said: Teams learned their lesson letting DK Metcalf and AJ Brown get to the 2nd round. Teams (like us) saw DK dominate on the football field but chose to take other WRs ahead of him because they didn’t love his combine (if i recall his cone time). Teams will not let Devonta Smith out of the top 12, but I agree, moot point now because (hopefully) we won’t be picking #18. I like going the edge route in the first round, although i’m a bit weary because the past few years we haven’t necessarily hit on pass rushers like we’d like...we tend to value guys who are “scrappy” and “motor” edge rushers over the “great get-off” and “physical specimen” edge rushers and it hasn’t exactly fared us well. Hopefully they change route with their pass rush evaluation this year if we’re going that direction first round. With DK I don’t think that bothers a team like the Ravens in the draft. Had he had outstanding production and he just had a terrible 3-cone, he’s all but drafted to us in round one. Problem was that DKM for a front office like ours: - 67 career receptions at Ole Miss - Extensive injury history - Concentration drops on tape - Decently serious neck injury/surgery All things that would be red flags regardless of his combine performance. With both Metcalf and AJ their were diva concerns as well IIRC. Brown also doesn’t have the best durability history. That Ole Miss system also rarely challenged either to run NFL routes. The NFL has seen unicorns somewhat like those guys before, drafted them, and failed. Heck Al Davis had his own personal collection of them. The NFL has gotten over their perceptions with short #1 WRs (as long as they’re at least 5’9/5’10 of course), but Hollywood had just as many questioning his size concerns pre-draft as DKM’s agility/production... and Hollywood at 175 lbs was bigger and better proportioned than Smith. So it’ll be an interesting case study to see how the NFL treats a WR like Smith. You could absolutely be right and they overlook it. I suppose there’s also enough new positions where new blood at the top of the draft might see things in a more progressive manner than the old guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 hours ago, wackywabbit said: We still mad about Derwin James? The Ravens had BY FAR the best draft in 2018. We need a new go to anecdote for this scenario. 😆 That's not really how it went with DK. DK's college production was not dominant. He also had injury questions that factored in to him falling to the second. I'm also bummed that Smith got to be featured this year and raised himself out of our reach. I'm not seeing this as a WR in round 1 year. I think those saying that we need to make a significant move for a vet are right. I'm optimistic that we will get Yannick resigned and I really hope we can get Bowser back too. He's a great SAM linebacker. Otherwise edge in round 1 is likely. O-line, TE, and DB are also needs. Yeah i’ve turned around on Bowser ftmp. He’s been much better in coverage the last half of the season and as long as the team doesn’t have any delusions that he’s a + pass rusher and uses him for what he is - a solid overall LB who is better in coverage than playing the run or rushing the passer - i’m good with bringing him back on a cheapish deal. Yannick is interesting. He’s definitely gotten more pressure than the stat sheet indicates this year, but he has a ton of “near misses” that still end up becoming positive plays for the offense. Will be interesting to see how they weigh that vs a guy like Judon who is the polar opposite - rarely gets that immediate pressure like Yannick, but always seems to finish the sack once he does get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 56 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said: Who are the best center prospects in the draft? 1. Creed Humphrey, Oklahoma - Easily the best in the class, one of the best the last decade. 2. Tyler Lindenbaum, Iowa 3. Josh Myers, Ohio State 4. Drake Jackson, Kentucky - Lindenbaum at another 10-15 lbs has elite potential; delivers a perfect snap, stays latched on while moving his feet beautifully. Strength doesn’t look like an issue, but he’s also not a true people mover, another 10-15, might get him there. Myers is Lindenbaum with a less consistent snap and slightly less balance; he does have more room on his frame and is more powerful however. Jackson isn’t a stud athlete, but is a good athlete. Stays engaged on blocks and moves feet well. Excels in pass pro and run blocking, higher floor than Myers, but lower ceiling IMO. 5. Trey Hill - Similar to Drake Jackson, but as opposed to good athleticism, I see mediocre to bad athleticism. He’s a phone booth player, the athleticism limitations might limit him to backup status, even if everything else looks pretty good. 6. Alec Lindstrom 7. Landon Dickerson Lindstrom is an athlete but isn’t very powerful and doesn’t consistently stay latched onto his blocks. Dickerson is protected by Alabama’s other talent, when broken down, I’ve seen balance concerns and concerns with staying engaged with blocks through the whistle. He’s also only an average to above average athlete. I liked Bradley Bozeman coming out of Alabama more than I like Dickerson. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 52 minutes ago, Ray Reed said: Yeah i’ve turned around on Bowser ftmp. He’s been much better in coverage the last half of the season and as long as the team doesn’t have any delusions that he’s a + pass rusher and uses him for what he is - a solid overall LB who is better in coverage than playing the run or rushing the passer - i’m good with bringing him back on a cheapish deal. Yannick is interesting. He’s definitely gotten more pressure than the stat sheet indicates this year, but he has a ton of “near misses” that still end up becoming positive plays for the offense. Will be interesting to see how they weigh that vs a guy like Judon who is the polar opposite - rarely gets that immediate pressure like Yannick, but always seems to finish the sack once he does get there. Yup. Same analysis with Yannick. What’s also interesting is I’ve seen Judon incorporating Ngakoue’s signature rush move into his repertoire this past game. I think at this point, Ngakoue is likely the cheaper option. Judon just was voted by coaches and players to back to back pro bowls. Have to think that will afford him a salary boost. Spotrac has his projected market value at $16.3m, but he’s shown more production than Zadarius Smith had shown prior to UFA. He’s also considered one of the leaders of the defense, I could easily see Judon getting $17-18m. Ngakoue’s projected market value is $15.4m (which probably holds true), he’s younger, and provides more consistent pressure as well. His inability to consistently finish however is certainly concerning. Though if his pressure can provide a hitch from the QB having guys like Madubuike, Campbell, Wolfe... and perhaps a rookie on the edge might be able to take advantage of that pressure. I think our team’s pass rush overall has certainly improved once Ngakoue was added and while he’s not finishing I think his overall pressure impact is probably indirectly influencing increased production from his teammates. So I think he’s the safer bet to bring back. Though if he prices himself out of our market as well, we might just have to consider the draft picks a sunk cost versus signing him to an $18m type deal. I’m fully down with giving him Earl Thomas type money though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalvadorsDeli Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I'd be shocked if Ngakoue wasn't the priority. I think the 'inability to finish' is moreso just a function of us talking about an incredibly small sample size - with the added caveat that we're talking about his production after joining a new team midseason and learning a new system on the fly. He's been the better/more productive pass rusher throughout his career and is much younger than Judon. Gotta believe that if EDC really rated Judon that highly and wanted to extend him then we would have gotten a deal done by now, and wouldn't have spent so much time chasing Clowney and Ngakoue this year in the first place. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: Yup. Same analysis with Yannick. What’s also interesting is I’ve seen Judon incorporating Ngakoue’s signature rush move into his repertoire this past game. I think at this point, Ngakoue is likely the cheaper option. Judon just was voted by coaches and players to back to back pro bowls. Have to think that will afford him a salary boost. Spotrac has his projected market value at $16.3m, but he’s shown more production than Zadarius Smith had shown prior to UFA. He’s also considered one of the leaders of the defense, I could easily see Judon getting $17-18m. Ngakoue’s projected market value is $15.4m (which probably holds true), he’s younger, and provides more consistent pressure as well. His inability to consistently finish however is certainly concerning. Though if his pressure can provide a hitch from the QB having guys like Madubuike, Campbell, Wolfe... and perhaps a rookie on the edge might be able to take advantage of that pressure. I think our team’s pass rush overall has certainly improved once Ngakoue was added and while he’s not finishing I think his overall pressure impact is probably indirectly influencing increased production from his teammates. So I think he’s the safer bet to bring back. Though if he prices himself out of our market as well, we might just have to consider the draft picks a sunk cost versus signing him to an $18m type deal. I’m fully down with giving him Earl Thomas type money though. The way I read it is that if the FO wanted to resign Judon, it would have happened already and if the FO was NOT going to resign Yannick they would not have given up a draft pick for him. There is always the possibility of a team blowing away an offer for Yannick (like what happened with Kelechi Osemele), but I don't see that happening with the cap implications of the pandemic-struck 2020 season. My guess is that in 2021 Yannick is in a Ravens uniform and Judon is not. I'm 80% confident about that. Bowser is by far the more interesting variable. I'm really hoping we get Bowser back. His athleticism/age is still in peak from a value perspective and his skill/technique is on the upswing. I'd be very happy with Yannick/Bowser as the OLB of the future. Edited December 30, 2020 by wackywabbit 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: The way I read it is that if the FO wanted to resign Judon, it would have happened already and if the FO was NOT going to resign Yannick they would not have given up a draft pick for him. There is always the possibility of a team blowing away an offer for Yannick (like what happened with Kelechi Osemele), but I don't see that happening with the cap implications of the pandemic-struck 2020 season. My guess is that in 2021 Yannick is in a Ravens uniform and Judon is not. I'm 80% confident about that. Bowser is by far the more interesting variable. Oh. Yeah. I don’t imagine Judon is back either. Agreed on all points. But similarly, I am slightly nervous about a team like the Jets throwing plenty of money at him to pass rush for them, for how short of a time he’s been here, he certainly fits the mold of a former Raven. Bud Dupree’s injury probably pushes him below Ngakoue in the UFA pecking order and that could come back to bite us. Though perhaps him signing for less helps us in that it lowers the market value for pass rushers? Will certainly be an interesting offseason on that front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalvadorsDeli Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) Depends on what the overall cap looks like but I think we'll be positioned to tag Ngakoue even at the costlier repeater tag cost if we can't come to an agreement on a contract extension. The uncertainty around how much teams will be able to spend in FA this year may help make it easier to come to an agreement as well. Unless it turns out Ngakoue has just had a horrible experience since joining us though I have a feeling he's priority #1 this offseason and we get a deal done with him before FA starts. Edited December 30, 2020 by SalvadorsDeli 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 So in terms of center prospects, in case anyone is interested in taking a closer look at the guys I ranked. The round grade is my grade of their talent and where I’d be willing to take them, not where I think they actually go on draft day. 1. Creed Humphrey, Oklahoma- Late 1st 2. Tyler Lindenbaum, Iowa- Mid 2nd 3a. Josh Myers, Ohio State- Early 3rd - I know it says Davis, but Myers plays right next to him. Same difference. I prefer this to the rainy game vs Clemson. 3b. Drake Jackson, Kentucky- Early 3rd 5. Trey Hill, Georgia- Late 4th/5th Round 6. Alec Lindstrom, BC- 5th 7. Landon Dickerson, Alabama- 5th 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 Man... DeVonta Smith. Not being able to draft him will be far worse than not having been able to draft Chubb. This is annoying. This is probably the biggest man crush I’ve ever had for a prospect, ever. I mean I like Pitts about as much as I liked Chubb, I recognize that he’s like a Calvin Johnson type unicorn for the TE position (I know his impact is crazy hence Florida looking completely different a level when he plays vs when he doesn’t play), yet Smith... if we could somehow get this dude, I don’t much care about the cost. I’d strongly consider giving up a future 1st and worry about the cost later. He’s AJ Green at his peak, he’s a better Stefon Diggs... he’s simply unbelievable. Our 1st and 2nd round picks would combine for 1080 draft points according to the standard trade value chart, which would allow us to move up to roughly NE at pick #14. They typically love to stack picks and especially if there isn’t a QB available for them to draft, they’d be a great trade partner. If Smith falls out of the top 10-12 picks as I think he may, I think he’s an automatic trade up piece. I don’t care how many needs we have... address them in FA, this dude is special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 Michael Maher is also a player I’m going to need to look more over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drd23 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Without having paid too much attention to college football this year because the season has been a farce, it feels like it's more likely that Devonta Smith gets drafted in the top 5 than him falling past 12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Quincy Roche transferring to Miami as one of the nation's top college DEs and still being the 3rd Miami DE drafted in 2021 will be wild. Haven't dug into any prospect tape yet, but the hype for Rousseau and Jaelan Phillips seems real. Maybe he can be our new gen ZDS. Za'Darius had his college pass rush running mate go 100 picks before him(Bud Dupree), yet ended up the superior player. Randallstown, MD kid, Temple then Miami. He remains the ultimate Ravens' prospect. Yanny will get the big contract and we'll need to constantly flow in Rookie pass rusher contracts opposite him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Azeez reminds me of Ngakoue with how he rushes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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