VanS Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 13 hours ago, Classic said: I mean if Matt Ryan did ever win a Super Bowl and was a large part of it that would bloster his HOF chances. That's at least something to care about for sake of discussion. I don't think so. Even if he goes on a Joe Flacco-esque run and wins one ring, it doesn't usurp the rest of his career which has been unremarkable. Matt Ryan has been one of the most overrated players I've ever seen. A large part of his individual success has been predicated on the fact the Falcons have loaded up on offensive talent to surround him. Allowing him to put up big numbers. He also lucked out in 2016 having a genius like Kyle Shanahan as his offensive coordinator when he won MVP. Matt Ryan has never been as good as the perception around him. He's never been elite IMO. And I would take someone like Matt Stafford over him without hesitation. Stafford in many ways has been the opposite of Matt Ryan. He has largely lacked offensive talent surrounding him (outside of Megatron) and his coaching has been poor. Give Stafford the sort of weapons Ryan has had throughout his career as well as the coaching and he wins a Super Bowl (maybe even two). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleBlueDon Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 6 hours ago, scar988 said: What happened vs. NE wasn't his fault though. Yeah I'm deff not saying it was his fault, just saying I don't think that team/core will ever come close again. Next time ATL is in a SB will be under a new coach and QB imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 When it comes to Matt Ryan in the hall, you have to consider beyond him. How many QBs in this league will also get HoF consideration that will retire around the same time? He is going to have a LOT of competition. Aaron Rodgers Tom Brady Matt Stafford Philip Rivers Ben Roethlisberger Drew Brees Eli Manning Joe Flacco 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargers Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 4 hours ago, VanS said: I don't think so. Even if he goes on a Joe Flacco-esque run and wins one ring, it doesn't usurp the rest of his career which has been unremarkable. Matt Ryan has been one of the most overrated players I've ever seen. A large part of his individual success has been predicated on the fact the Falcons have loaded up on offensive talent to surround him. Allowing him to put up big numbers. He also lucked out in 2016 having a genius like Kyle Shanahan as his offensive coordinator when he won MVP. Matt Ryan has never been as good as the perception around him. He's never been elite IMO. And I would take someone like Matt Stafford over him without hesitation. Stafford in many ways has been the opposite of Matt Ryan. He has largely lacked offensive talent surrounding him (outside of Megatron) and his coaching has been poor. Give Stafford the sort of weapons Ryan has had throughout his career as well as the coaching and he wins a Super Bowl (maybe even two). There isn't anyone on this site or the NFL that overrates him. He is actually underrated when it comes to getting recognition for his success. Is he Elite? No, unless you consider his numbers for 2016 and 2018 which were top 5 all around. Having Julio as WR doesn't negate you from being a Top 10 QB which Ryan has been since 2015. Stafford is more talented than Ryan but being more talented doesn't equal being better all of the time. Stafford hasn't been entirely without good coaching either since he made the playoffs 3 times and his best chance 2014 vs Cowboys he got sacked 3 times and turned the ball over 3 times. His defense at the time was 3rd overall in points allowed. So I don't see any reason to feel sorry Stafford and gripe about Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 44 minutes ago, Deadpulse said: When it comes to Matt Ryan in the hall, you have to consider beyond him. How many QBs in this league will also get HoF consideration that will retire around the same time? He is going to have a LOT of competition. Aaron Rodgers Tom Brady Matt Stafford Philip Rivers Ben Roethlisberger Drew Brees Eli Manning Joe Flacco Eli, Stafford, and Rivers aren't Hall of Famers. Flacco has zero case so I don't know why you mentioned him. Big Ben is a borderline case. Brady, Rodgers, and Brees are the only locks on that list. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 20 hours ago, Championshiporbust said: I think so. The NFC is stacked, I can see the Atlanta Falcons going 14-2 or 13-3 and winning that elusive Super Bowl that got away from them. I think the Falcons have a better chance of going 2-14 instead of 14-2 this upcoming season, if we even have a season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, Classic said: There isn't anyone on this site or the NFL that overrates him. Some think he is a Hall of Famer. That is wildly overrating him. To me Matt Ryan is a modern day Boomer Esiason. Solid QB who won MVP and led his team to a Super Bowl but never quite elite or Hall of Fame worthy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, VanS said: Eli, Stafford, and Rivers aren't Hall of Famers. Flacco has zero case so I don't know why you mentioned him. Big Ben is a borderline case. Brady, Rodgers, and Brees are the only locks on that list. I didnt say they were, just said they would be competition. All of those guys will get some votes, not all of them will get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 The Falcons went 2-5 vs Top 10 competition last year and 3-6 vs Top 16 Those aren't strong numbers, although 4-2 in the division is commendable http://sagarin.com/sports/nflsend.htm Their 2020 win totals come in at 7.5 , which suggests they really aren't SB contenders in 2020. Going into 2021, they don't have much cap space, coming in at only $59, 237 in room on NEXT year's cap. (which may decline) https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/ Unless you believe Dan Quinn is going to get another 3 year extension, its also reasonable to surmise there is going to be a regime change in Matt Ryan's future. Now, these are admittedly non-Ryan issues...but they are concerns for his Falcons. Many are saying he needs a strong running game and a strong defense to win a Title. So given the cap issues, current roster holes, potential regime change and Ryan's performance - it seems unlikely that he will win a Super Bowl in the next 3 years. That's the meat of his remaining NFL career. IF he played MVP-caliber QB, they have a chance, but I see that as rather unlikely - especially if a new HC is brought in - because it always takes time His best chance might be 2021, but they will need to make some serious cap moves and that may impact their SB chances. They appear stuck in no- man's land with Ryan at the helm. Not good enough to go all the way and not crappy enough to draft the stars they need to support him I don't believe Matt Ryan's Falcons will win a title in the next 3 years and I don't know how much more he has beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Shanedorf said: IF he played MVP-caliber QB, they have a chance, but I see that as rather unlikely - especially if a new HC is brought in - because it always takes time I dont agree, I think a change up to their offensive identity could do Ryan a lot of good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Just now, Deadpulse said: I dont agree, I think a change up to their offensive identity could do Ryan a lot of good It probably would, but the timeline just isn't in Matt's favor. Quinn = HC in 2020, so the soonest they can get another HC is 2021 and if there isn't an NFL season in 2020 that pushes it out to 2022. With a regime change, it takes time; plus any new HC is gonna want to draft or trade for his guy. I'm not saying it can't happen for Ryan - I'm saying its unlikely given the current ATL situation and the time it takes for a new HC to deploy his vision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) Two Matt Ryan threads essentially talking about the same thing. Edited July 16, 2020 by TecmoSuperJoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFan13 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 17 hours ago, Deadpulse said: He needs to be on a team in which defense is the focus. I think he is plenty talented to make an offense run and to make the throws he needs to. Too often in his career is he made to push the ball downfield and really it never seemed like his forte. Despite their relative success, I don't think he and Julio are the best fit together. I think Ryans ideal roster consists of a strong defense, a strong TE and underneath WR presence and a pass catching RB. Actually if you think about it the offense he has around him right now talent wise is almost exactly what you asked for lol. Julio is gonna be julio he can do pretty much anything on the field so we will just leave him there as a massive bonus piece. But the other things you listed are potentially spot on We traded for Hurst who has the upside and potential to be a top 5 TE in this league in the right scheme. Calvin Ridley is a elite level route runner and can be the underneath WR presence that is fast enough and shifty enough to take anything underneath to the house. Then you add in Gurley who is probably one of the best pass catching RB's in the league overall. So if nothing else they built exactly what you were asking for around him this year and then you just have the best WR in football on top of that. But i have said this before and i'll say it again i would give up most of Ryans skill position players from his career for a legit top 5 OL every year. Ryan with time has proven he doesn't top tier level Skill players to get the job done. I would much rather a top 5 OL and a Top 5 defense for ryan than skill players every single year and it's not even close. Now as for our defense i think people might be underestimating it a bit as they think Quinn is still running it like the beginning of last year where it was possibly the worst falcons defense in history under him for the 1st 8 games. During the bye week instead of him getting fired he turned the defense over to Raheem Morris who switched it up to a more Tampa 2 style defense and started running alot more Zone coverages than man to man Quinn was running. We also started getting more pressure with the front 7 with different looks. Because of this we looed like a completely different defense and it showed on the field and on the win/loss board.Under Quinn Through the first eight games, the Falcons surrendered 31.3 points per game and 379.5 yards per game, allowed opponents to convert 68.8% in the red zone and 53% on third down and recorded seven sacks and two interceptions. Under Morris In the last eight games with Morris’ imprint on the defense, the Falcons surrendered 18.6 points per game and 332.1 yards per game, allowed opponents to convert 42.9% in the red zone and 25.8% on third down, tripled their sack total to 21 and had five times as many interceptions, with 10. We went from 32nd in defense the 1st 8 games to 20th by the end of the season because of the last 8 games. Under Morris his numbers over an entire season would be ranked 10th in YPG and 4th in PPG. Crazy part is the list of offenses and teams we played during that span of top 10 defense play was Saints Twice, Bucs Twice, 49ers, Carolina twice and the Jags. The Saints, Bucs, and 49ers were all top 4 offenses in PPG and 2 of the teams were top 5 in YPG and Saints were top 8 i think but we all know their elite as an offense no matter the ranking lol. Panthers and Jags weren't that great of offenses but both were still top 20 i think it was still a hard *** schedule for our defense to handle and it performed extremely well against some very tough offenses under Morris. Also as for your other post i know we finished 7-9 the last 2 seasons but don't forget the Saints did it 3 times in a row with brees and company and they are back in business we easily have the talent level to be there and our 2nd half last year shows that we can. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40Year Pack Fan Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 That collapse to NE may have been his last shot..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40Year Pack Fan Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) On 7/15/2020 at 1:13 PM, scar988 said: What happened vs. NE wasn't his fault though. Part of it was...If he hadn't been sacked late in the game, thus taking his team out of FG range, we very well wouldn't be having this discussion.... https://www.sbnation.com/2017/2/9/14522738/falcons-lost-super-bowl-patriots-matt-ryan-sack-run-the-dang-ball Edited July 17, 2020 by 40Year Pack Fan link added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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