candyman93 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 His legacy is a sightly better Phillip Rivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 The Falcons win the Super Bowl? BHALAHAHAHAHA good one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 No. I don’t think he’s going to play consistently to the level he did in 2016 to get close enough and I don’t think his current regime will amp up his team enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 5 hours ago, LeonKennedy said: Big Ben a borderline case? He's an iconic QB with the numbers and the postseason success to back it up. Even if his play has gone down in recent years he's still the golden standard when it comes to QB's that are impossible to bring down in the pocket. If a guy like Rodgers gets in he absolutely deserves to as well. Comparing Big Ben to Aaron Rodgers is silly. Rodgers is a 2x league MVP and Super Bowl MVP. Accolades Big Ben doesn't have. And even if we ignore the accomplishments on paper and just focus on the tape there is no comparison either. Aaron Rodgers is arguably the greatest QB we've ever seen on tape. Big Ben isn't in that conversation. Big Ben has 2 Super Bowls to Rodgers 1 but can you honestly say Big Ben was the catalyst for those 2 rings? It wasn't Big Ben and the offense that won the Steelers the 2005 and 2008 Super Bowls. It was the defense. When Big Ben and the offense became elite the Steelers stayed a contender but never won another Super Bowl. Ultimately I think Big Ben is a Hall of Famer but not first ballot. He should wait a couple of years before going in. That is why I said he's a borderline case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Shanedorf said: Can we flip this around and ask: Who are the best QBs that are NOT in the HOF right now ? In the NFL, QBs are overdrafted, over-valued and overpaid. I'm guessing that trend holds true in the HOF too. Here's a link to Career AV from Pro Football Reference. Its a reasonably acceptable metric for rating players. Scroll down the list and you can see the QBs ( by the AV metric) who aren't in the HOF yet. All these QBs lower than Ryan are done playing, so they won't be adding to their total ptshttps://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/av_career.htm Assuming: Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers get in - here's the next set of guys, in order Phillip Rivers Rothlisberger Matt Ryan Eli Manning Ken Anderson John Hadl Carson Palmer Roethlisgberger >>> Rivers. It's not even arguable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Danger said: Roethlisgberger >>> Rivers. It's not even arguable. Nobody is arguing anything, its merely how they are ranked by Career AV at Pro Football Reference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 46 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: Nobody is arguing anything, its merely how they are ranked by Career AV at Pro Football Reference Their numbers are basically identical, and Ben has 2 Super Bowls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 The Falcons have been to the playoffs 6 times in Matt Ryan's career and has 4 wins. Why are we even discussing this? He isn't even a consistent playoff participant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40Year Pack Fan Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 9 hours ago, LeonKennedy said: Big Ben a borderline case? He's an iconic QB with the numbers and the postseason success to back it up. Even if his play has gone down in recent years he's still the golden standard when it comes to QB's that are impossible to bring down in the pocket. If a guy like Rodgers gets in he absolutely deserves to as well. If Eli Manning is eligible, than Ben should too...Albeit Manning played in NY and both SB wins came against the Patriots.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 9 hours ago, LeonKennedy said: Big Ben a borderline case? He's an iconic QB with the numbers and the postseason success to back it up. Even if his play has gone down in recent years he's still the golden standard when it comes to QB's that are impossible to bring down in the pocket. If a guy like Rodgers gets in he absolutely deserves to as well. Has Ben ever once been as good or better than the best QBs in the league? Ryan can at least say he has once. Granted Ben has a lot more postseason success, which helps a ton. I think he gets in but I wouldn’t be pounding the table for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Has Ben ever once been as good or better than the best QBs in the league? Ryan can at least say he has once. Granted Ben has a lot more postseason success, which helps a ton. I think he gets in but I wouldn’t be pounding the table for him. Matt Ryan's numbers are really bolstered by that one good year. Ben has been consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, Danger said: Matt Ryan's numbers are really bolstered by that one good year. Ben has been consistent. Ben has been consistently good, but never really in the conversation for the best. That should matter. Their per game stats are actually pretty similar, upon closer inspection. Ben has a slightly higher TD% but also a higher INT %. Less YPG, lower passer rating, a touch higher Y/A, virtually identical AY/A. They’re pretty similar statistically. Maybe Ryan’s averages get bolstered by an MVP season (which shouldn’t really be a slight), but over the course it almost 200 games, one season can only do but so much for a mean. But Ben has postseason runs. Ryan has an MVP. That’s realistically what it boils down to in a resume comparison, along with opinions on the unmeasurable things like how they elevated their team, etc. I wouldn’t vote for either, but I expect Ben’s rings to get him in. Ryan won’t have that going for him. If I were a voter, I’d have a hard time voting for someone that was never (in the case of Ben) the best/debatably the best in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 On 7/17/2020 at 10:51 PM, FalconFan13 said: That still didn't end it for us as the very next play after that sack Ryan hit Sanu for like 10 put us right back in FG range from where we was before the sack. Jake matthews on the Sanu catch play decided to put someone in a fricken chokehold. Which then put us back even further on like a 3rd and 33 at the 45. Which means we had to throw again because at that point we were out of FG range. So not only once on the Ryan Julio crazy catch did Ryan get us in FG range but twice with Sanu after the sack put us back in FG range. On the Sack and on the Hold our O-line failed us in that Superbowl. Ryan nor the recievers should ever be blamed for that loss they were amazing in that game. All the blame to me goes on Shanny, Freeman, and the O-line. I would say the defense but they had to cover 99 plays wtf were they supposed to do they were tired shanny could have saved the defense alot of snaps by running the ball and eating the clock up the entire 4th quarter. Oh yeah, I wouldn't put that loss on Ryan AT ALL. But he should have thrown that ball away. Of course, he shouldn't have even been put in that position because, as I said earlier, they should have been running it for 3 straight plays after that Julio catch. It was a 4th quarter filled with poor coaching from ATL, some very timely and clutch plays from NE on both sides of the ball, and of course quite a bit of luck too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonKennedy Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Ben will get in simply because he's become the archetype for resilient QBs. He's not complete but he's the best at the things he does well. When's the last time you heard another QB get compared to "Big Ben"? 10 years ago? 5 years ago? Last year...? How about last month? He's a player that people remember and with the way the induction process works that alone makes him an obvious shoe in for the HOF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40Year Pack Fan Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 9 hours ago, childofpudding said: Oh yeah, I wouldn't put that loss on Ryan AT ALL. But he should have thrown that ball away. Of course, he shouldn't have even been put in that position because, as I said earlier, they should have been running it for 3 straight plays after that Julio catch. It was a 4th quarter filled with poor coaching from ATL, some very timely and clutch plays from NE on both sides of the ball, and of course quite a bit of luck too. No doubt, it was a team collapse....To blame a twenty-five point lost lead on Ryan would not be fair or correct....However to completely exonerate him, would not be right either..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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