GDT - Week 4: Washington Redskins @ Kansas City Chiefs

[Dashing202]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

Clearly my response was about one match up, not their entire DL.

The Chiefs problem isn't going to be their front 7, it's going to be their coverage outside of Marcus Peters. 

Against the Eagles for some reason Gruden didn't go with the quick passing game - which had been working for us for 2 straight years - and we lost. The last two weeks he's gone back to more of a quick passing game and we've won each game. 

If we do the same on Monday night we can win the game. We have the playmakers to beat any defense, the key is to just get the ball in our playmakers hands.

Gruden gameplan wasn't bad against philly if Kirk finds his guys .

 

nah the problem will be there front 7 . The only way we win is unless Pryor has a jeffery type performance ( sorta wish we got Jeffery now ).

the chiefs D will be the best will play all year

other than the broncos Seahawks and giantsGiants

[turtle28]

45 minutes ago, Dashing202 said:

Gruden gameplan wasn't bad against philly if Kirk finds his guys .

 

nah the problem will be there front 7 . The only way we win is unless Pryor has a jeffery type performance ( sorta wish we got Jeffery now ).

the chiefs D will be the best will play all year

other than the broncos Seahawks and giantsGiants

So, the drops that Pryor had didn't matter also?

The inability to run the ball and get more creative in the running game didn't matter?

The inability to block BRandon Graham didn't matter?

The game plan vs Philadelphia seemed to be to throw the ball downfield more by Gruden. Perhaps Kirk made that decision on his own, but I doubt it. From the first pass play on they targeted Pryor more over their other receivers. Pryor runs mostly deep routes while the other players run short and intermediate routes. 

If they ran more quick game with their receivers and Thompson, I think they win the Philly game easy. All that being said, of course if Kirk hit Crowder at the 5 they probably win the game also. 

To me, the loss vs Phila had to do with the game plan as well. Yes, players didn't execute, but maybe that was because we weren't at the level in our passing game that we could hit the deep timing stuff and our OL wasn't able to pass block long enough to give Kirk time.

[turtle28]

 

[turtle28]

 

[lavar703]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

So, the drops that Pryor had didn't matter also?

The inability to run the ball and get more creative in the running game didn't matter?

The inability to block BRandon Graham didn't matter?

The game plan vs Philadelphia seemed to be to throw the ball downfield more by Gruden. Perhaps Kirk made that decision on his own, but I doubt it. From the first pass play on they targeted Pryor more over their other receivers. Pryor runs mostly deep routes while the other players run short and intermediate routes. 

If they ran more quick game with their receivers and Thompson, I think they win the Philly game easy. All that being said, of course if Kirk hit Crowder at the 5 they probably win the game also. 

To me, the loss vs Phila had to do with the game plan as well. Yes, players didn't execute, but maybe that was because we weren't at the level in our passing game that we could hit the deep timing stuff and our OL wasn't able to pass block long enough to give Kirk time.

If Kirk has even a somewhat decent outing against Philly we win that game. He was god awful.

And yes, Pryors drops hurt badly as well. He hasn't really been a disappointment to me though because I didn't expect much from him. He has elite talent but a very long ways to go as a receiver. Poor route runner, poor hands and very poor blocker. Still, his transition to receiver and how quickly he's at least looked competent at the position is impressive. It's too bad he didn't make this transition at Ohio state like he should have. 

[turtle28]

4 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

If Kirk has even a somewhat decent outing against Philly we win that game. He was god awful.

And yes, Pryors drops hurt badly as well. He hasn't really been a disappointment to me though because I didn't expect much from him. He has elite talent but a very long ways to go as a receiver. Poor route runner, poor hands and very poor blocker. Still, his transition to receiver and how quickly he's at least looked competent at the position is impressive. It's too bad he didn't make this transition at Ohio state like he should have. 

Yes, Kirk played bad but the entire game plan was poor. They couldn't run the ball, Moses had a poor game - I don't think he or Long were 100% - and instead of doing more quick passing game they started the game off throwing deeper routes.

When the Redskins went to the quick passing game in the 2nd and 3rd quarters they started to control that game until Kirk's horrible pass in the redzone.

I mean we can go over the turnovers if you'd like:

1. Crowder fumble, obviously not on Kirk

2. Kirk 1st fumble was on him, he didn't protect the ball and hung onto it too long.

3. Kirk int in the redzone was 100% his fault. Even though he didn't do well to start  the game and had the other fumble, if Kirk hits that pass to Crowder it's almost guaranteed we win the game.

4. The fourth turnover was 100% on Morgan Moses and most don't think it was a fumble anyways. It looked like a forward pass on most replays.

[lavar703]

Kirk was bad. Plain and simple. 

[turtle28]

21 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Kirk was bad. Plain and simple. 

But it's not that plain and simple when there are 21 other guys who have jobs to do and some plays those players didn't even do their jobs which didn't allow Kirk to do his.

 

[turtle28]

 

[Jakuvious]

5 hours ago, turtle28 said:

True, I didn't say anything about your DL. I think that was someone else, I was merely saying if he's going to be going against Scherff he won't do much.

Of course I agree that if Jones goes against Lauvao he make a play or 2, just like Aaron Donald did against us in week 2. I don't think Jones is going to dominate Lauvao though. Lauvao isn't good but he's also underrated a bit by most fans.

The match up which is of biggest concern for me is Justin Houston vs Morgan Moses. The Redskins can offset Houston's pass rush though by running their quick passing game - like they have the last two weeks - and allowing their playmakers to get yac. They can also run draws and delays with Chris Thompson as well as play action to slow down the pass rush of Jones and Houston. 

Again, the Redskins have done this type of offensive game plan since their week one loss vs Philadelphia and it's worked to beat the Rams and demolish the Raiders.

If I was you I'd be concerned about your secondary outside of Marcus Peters - who we probably won't even throw at - against our passing attack. It seems that Jordan Reed is going to be good to go and I don't see a player on your defense that can stop him or Vernon Davis' size/speed/athleticism combo for that matter. 

I'm guessing Peters will match up with Pryor most of the game which is fine, we can target Crowder, Doctson and Grant all game and rip your secondary apart beyond what our TEs and  Thompson will do.

I was shocked the Redskins game vs The Raiders wasn't a shootout and I expect this game will be.

I appreciate the insight. Particularly compared to...other replies. This is the kind of thing I visit opposing GDTs for. You know more about your team and what they've done than I do.

Our secondary outside of Peters gets a bit of undue criticism, at least this year, anyway. Phillip Gaines, our usual #4 and current NB, is unquestionably garbage. He I'm concerned about every week, this one included. But Mitchell has actually played well this year despite an absolutely absurd number of targets, and our safeties are still a strength even without Berry.

You're right that we probably don't have a single player to match Reed. It would've been Berry's assignment were he healthy. Instead it will probably be a mixture of solutions. Some Johnson, some Wilson, some Parker, and some Sorensen. With Houston and Zombo chipping him if he lines up in line. That's more or less what we did with Gronk after the Berry injury. We've done very well against RBs and TEs in coverage over the past year and 3 games, but Reed is definitely a special talent.

At WR we just play sides. So Peters will match up with whoever you put at RWR. Whether that's Pryor or otherwise. Mitchell will handle the LWR. And the slots will be a mix of safeties and Gaines. How have your guys fared in the slot so far? That will be our biggest concern until Steven Nelson returns. Amendola had success there, as did Benjamin for LA. And Philly had some good things happened when they put Jeffery inside too.

[lavar703]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

But it's not that plain and simple when there are 21 other guys who have jobs to do and some plays those players didn't even do their jobs which didn't allow Kirk to do his.

 

BS. 

You have no issue hammering Josh Norman or all of Scots draft choices. You've had no issue singling out other players but when it comes to Kirk you start making excuses. No other guy on that field is making $24M a season so it starts with him. He's the team leader. He was tremendous against Oakland and while I don't expect that every game I do expect something similar. He's supposed to be our franchise QB and he needs to play like it. Enough with the "yeah but so and so didn't play well" crap because it doesn't excuse Kirk from making mistakes. 

[Jeezy Fanatic]

34 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

I appreciate the insight. Particularly compared to...other replies. 

[turtle28]

Chiefs rule out Dee Ford and Mitch Morse, waive Cairo Santos

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/09/30/chiefs-rule-out-dee-ford-and-mitch-morse-waive-cairo-santos/ via @ProFootballTalk

This is huge for us. The Chiefs will be without their top ROLB & their center

[MKnight82]

8 hours ago, lavar703 said:

If Kirk has even a somewhat decent outing against Philly we win that game. He was god awful.

And yes, Pryors drops hurt badly as well. He hasn't really been a disappointment to me though because I didn't expect much from him. He has elite talent but a very long ways to go as a receiver. Poor route runner, poor hands and very poor blocker. Still, his transition to receiver and how quickly he's at least looked competent at the position is impressive. It's too bad he didn't make this transition at Ohio state like he should have. 

I don't disagree except everything I've seen is that Pryor has been a very good downfield blocker.

[MKnight82]

5 hours ago, lavar703 said:

BS. 

You have no issue hammering Josh Norman or all of Scots draft choices. You've had no issue singling out other players but when it comes to Kirk you start making excuses. No other guy on that field is making $24M a season so it starts with him. He's the team leader. He was tremendous against Oakland and while I don't expect that every game I do expect something similar. He's supposed to be our franchise QB and he needs to play like it. Enough with the "yeah but so and so didn't play well" crap because it doesn't excuse Kirk from making mistakes. 

Don't forget Ryan Kerrigan.  He's loves to hate on him too.