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Umbaugh21

Daron Payne over Derwin James?

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7 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

I'm sorry, but the Seahawks got fleeced. That's an idiotic trade. Their GM needs to be fired. 

Let's see You fire him. 

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Just now, Skins212689 said:

Let's see You fire him. 

I would if I were the owner.

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Just now, Thaiphoon said:

I would if I were the owner.

Yet your not so you have to think by their rules oppose to your Personal Experience. This trade also says by NFL standards a Safety is worth those picks plus the money the Seahawks will have to pay him. 

I just suggest We All start using NFL Reality oppose to Our Own at times when discussing topics about the NFL. 

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4 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

Yet your not so you have to think by their rules oppose to your Personal Experience. This trade also says by NFL standards a Safety is worth those picks plus the money the Seahawks will have to pay him. 

I just suggest We All start using NFL Reality oppose to Our Own at times when discussing topics about the NFL. 

Yeah a all pro is a all pro positional bias is nuts when you think about teams like Seattle who do it on the back end and not the front. I think they over land because I value my picks over just about every player in the league but that said there are players like he and Mack or others who will fetch this type of comp in return and yes they can be valued as a safety like it’s crazy too me 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

Come on man. That is a deliberately obtuse answer and you know it. 

Because you're not deciding between a 7th round DL and a 1st round Safety when you're drafting in the first round.

At that point, you're considering two prospects who have first round grades and who you have ranked pretty closely together. And when you look at them both, you take the DL rather than the S. 

To address the OP. Payne was, and still is, the obvious choice here. 

Yes, but after 5 or 6 years of reading MKnight hate every S in the league and not want to pay money or a high draft pick for a good one on our team, my response is relevant. So, you’re kind of missing the point judging by his history towards the safety position.

MKnight said you take a DL over a safety EVERYTIME, I’m saying that’s not true, but he honestly believes it or at least he’s led us all to believe that’s his opinion on that.

Edited by turtle28

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5 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

I'm sorry, but the Seahawks got fleeced. That's an idiotic trade. Their GM needs to be fired. 

The Seahawks no doubt overpaid IMO too, but, I also think they won this trade. They arguably have the best safety tandem in th NFL now. With the additions of Diggs last year and Adams this year that just puts them that much closer to having the type of safety tandem like they had when they were going to Super Bowls w/ Chancellor & Thomas. This helps make their D Super Bowl caliber again.

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Well it seems I stand alone on this “debate” haha. We will have to re visit this topic after this season and probably even the next. I’ll admit I’m bias because 1.) I played Safety and 2.) I am an FSU fan. But bias aside I still think Derwin James is a cant miss prospect and a lot of his peers in the NFL would agree with me. A big point I was trying to make is that not having that safety that can cover like a corner (DJ) has been killing us on 3rd downs. While I like Payne and think he’s had an impact, I just feel like we have good depth on the d line and that it’s an easier position to find good to great players. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Umbaugh21 said:

Well it seems I stand alone on this “debate” haha. We will have to re visit this topic after this season and probably even the next. I’ll admit I’m bias because 1.) I played Safety and 2.) I am an FSU fan. But bias aside I still think Derwin James is a cant miss prospect and a lot of his peers in the NFL would agree with me. A big point I was trying to make is that not having that safety that can cover like a corner (DJ) has been killing us on 3rd downs. While I like Payne and think he’s had an impact, I just feel like we have good depth on the d line and that it’s an easier position to find good to great players. 

He is can’t miss when healthy no doubt about that. Any scouting report on his on field impact is clear cut but he always has injuries and a lot of hybrid thumpers are prone to it for the many ways their coming through or into contact to attack the ball in the many ways they do. Im a FSU hater and James would have been my pick is Payne wasn’t there the whole process I had Payne graded lower then James as a prospect but for our team I had a higher grade. The grade isn’t for need my grade is how I feel they fit and Payne’s toughness and the fact that you always see him collapsing the middle I could care if he has one sack because I see our edges get 10 because he traps the QB from stepping up. My best friend is a chargers fan and they got a heck of a steal!!! Amazing pick. But so do we and for our team we IMO still made the best choice. DelRio is going to have fun with this defense and say what you what Collins is right there and I believe shows everyone just that this season along with the Payne’s and Allen’s and Sweats. We have a huge ceiling right now on defense and I would be shocked if we aren’t getting closer to our celing with this staff then being closer to the floor as we have under previous staffs

also when we selected Payne we didn’t have depth we ran a 34 and had Matt and Allen we drafted Payne and Settle and then realized depth with a Sweat and Chase and a 4-3. So things made depth before the selection we had no depth on our front

Edited by ripsean21
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3 hours ago, Umbaugh21 said:

Well it seems I stand alone on this “debate” haha. We will have to re visit this topic after this season and probably even the next. I’ll admit I’m bias because 1.) I played Safety and 2.) I am an FSU fan. But bias aside I still think Derwin James is a cant miss prospect and a lot of his peers in the NFL would agree with me. A big point I was trying to make is that not having that safety that can cover like a corner (DJ) has been killing us on 3rd downs. While I like Payne and think he’s had an impact, I just feel like we have good depth on the d line and that it’s an easier position to find good to great players. 

I think that both are great players. So, from what I’ve seen out of both guys so far neither team “won this over the other,” they both won it, bc they both got great players. 
 

You have to remember we needed an upgrade at 3-4 NT when we selected Payne - something we had been missing since we didn’t retain Barry Cofield in 2014 - and we already had Swearinger at S.

If we had drafted Derwin James I would have been stoked as well, both players have been great, just in different ways bc they play different positions. What sucks though is if we had taken James & he would have had the injury he had last year for us too, of course there’s no way to say that would have happened though.

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Derwin has tremendous ability. I absolutely loved his talent coming out — from the first time I watched him play, in fact. 

But the most important “ability” is “availability,” and now for the second year in a row he looks likely to miss half the season or more. Thus far at least *knocks on wood* Daron Payne has been a durable and dependable mainstay in the middle of our defense. If he takes a big step forward in the “splash play” department in this new defense, as I suspect/hope he may, this comparison may move more and more in his direction.

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8 hours ago, e16bball said:

Derwin has tremendous ability. I absolutely loved his talent coming out — from the first time I watched him play, in fact. 

But the most important “ability” is “availability,” and now for the second year in a row he looks likely to miss half the season or more. Thus far at least *knocks on wood* Daron Payne has been a durable and dependable mainstay in the middle of our defense. If he takes a big step forward in the “splash play” department in this new defense, as I suspect/hope he may, this comparison may move more and more in his direction.

Injury and Payne’s first step as a DT were the only reason I had a higher grade on Payne because of James injury history was huge for me with his play style

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On 7/27/2020 at 7:38 AM, Umbaugh21 said:

Well it seems I stand alone on this “debate” haha. We will have to re visit this topic after this season and probably even the next. I’ll admit I’m bias because 1.) I played Safety and 2.) I am an FSU fan. But bias aside I still think Derwin James is a cant miss prospect and a lot of his peers in the NFL would agree with me. A big point I was trying to make is that not having that safety that can cover like a corner (DJ) has been killing us on 3rd downs. While I like Payne and think he’s had an impact, I just feel like we have good depth on the d line and that it’s an easier position to find good to great players. 

What good is Derwin James if he’s never on the field? He slipped due to his injury history and that’s proven to be the case at the next level as well. 

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