soulman Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 On 7/28/2020 at 7:52 AM, WindyCity said: Unexceptional UFA talent: Eddie Royal, Antrel Rolle, Markus Wheaton, Mike Glennon, Cody Parkey, Trey Burton, Dion Sims Pernell McPhee, Marcus Cooper, Quenton Demps McPhee was the only one of those last three who got serious money. The rest where cheap competition or depth signed when we had little cap to maneuver with. And McPhee was more of a gamble due to his knee issues yet not a complete bust. At that point in time we could not in way have afforded a Khalil Mack even if he had been available. If you're unable to "handicap" FA signings on a basis of "what could be done" based on cap vs "what should have been done" then of course it won't look as good but that also fits your pessimistic narratives and I'm not letting you off the hook about that. You're only willing to frame your positions in ways that fit your preconceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 2 hours ago, soulman said: McPhee was the only one of those last three who got serious money. The rest where cheap competition or depth signed when we had little cap to maneuver with. And McPhee was more of a gamble due to his knee issues yet not a complete bust. At that point in time we could not in way have afforded a Khalil Mack even if he had been available. If you're unable to "handicap" FA signings on a basis of "what could be done" based on cap vs "what should have been done" then of course it won't look as good but that also fits your pessimistic narratives and I'm not letting you off the hook about that. You're only willing to frame your positions in ways that fit your preconceptions. Demps: 3 years 13 million Cooper: 3 years 15 million Neither of those are cheap depth signings. Multi year, multi million dollar signings. A bad signing is when you sign a bad player to a multi year deal. That is not a 1 year flyer or vet minimum dice roll. The Bears have not had serious cap constraints until last season. Those were bad signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 9 hours ago, WindyCity said: Demps: 3 years 13 million Cooper: 3 years 15 million Neither of those are cheap depth signings. Multi year, multi million dollar signings. A bad signing is when you sign a bad player to a multi year deal. That is not a 1 year flyer or vet minimum dice roll. The Bears have not had serious cap constraints until last season. Those were bad signings. No, that's not how it works. How the contract is constructed is what matters most....not the length. The length is only the selling point, based on how the contract is constructed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 I would also say that you are forgetting that at points of time, McPhee, Demps, and Rolle were good players for us. Injuries were their biggest downfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Romen Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 57 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said: I would also say that you are forgetting that at points of time, McPhee, Demps, and Rolle were good players for us. Injuries were their biggest downfall. McPhee was the only good one... Demps I think played one game and got burned by Austin Hooper so badly they put in a rookie Eddie Jackson. Rolle played in 7 games with a PD... Not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, The_Romen said: McPhee was the only good one... Demps I think played one game and got burned by Austin Hooper so badly they put in a rookie Eddie Jackson. Rolle played in 7 games with a PD... Not good. Demps was playing injured. Rolle I could be mistaken on him, I remember the defense being terrible but I don't remember him playing bad. Desipite his age. Even still to call them "bad signings" is a reach to fit Windy's agenda. Which is exclude any positive and facts around those. Edited August 11, 2020 by JAF-N72EX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 11 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said: I would also say that you are forgetting that at points of time, McPhee, Demps, and Rolle were good players for us. Injuries were their biggest downfall. The return on investment was poor. When were Demps and Rolle ever good players for us? McPhee was good. But we paid him 20 million to be injured most of the time? Was Burton a good signing? We paid him 22 million for 1 good year and then nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 On 8/10/2020 at 10:40 AM, WindyCity said: Demps: 3 years 13 million Cooper: 3 years 15 million Neither of those are cheap depth signings. Multi year, multi million dollar signings. A bad signing is when you sign a bad player to a multi year deal. That is not a 1 year flyer or vet minimum dice roll. The Bears have not had serious cap constraints until last season. Those were bad signings. What was their guaranteed money Windy? Come on. You've been around long enough to know how this game is played. Multi-year deals mean jack once the guaranteed money has been paid out. Demps got the $5 mil gtd of his $15 and was released. Cooper got the $6 mil gtd of his $13 mil was released then re-signed for $1.5 mil and then released again in 2018 after 6 games. So he got less than $1.5 mil. Neither saw the entire amount they signed for and in essence they ended up being one year deals albeit for far more than vet minimum. But let's not assume either could have been signed for a vet minimum if only because they weren't. Pace loves those kind of deals so if either could have been had for a vet minimum don't you think that's how we would have signed them? Neither worked out but let's not go misrepresenting that we paid out $30 mil for these two guys. Facts Windy.....facts. And last season was not the first season the Bears have had cap constraints. But Pace and Laine have become more creative at working around them now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 22 minutes ago, soulman said: What was their guaranteed money Windy? Come on. You've been around long enough to know how this game is played. Multi-year deals mean jack once the guaranteed money has been paid out. Demps got the $5 mil gtd of his $15 and was released. Cooper got the $6 mil gtd of his $13 mil was released then re-signed for $1.5 mil and then released again in 2018 after 6 games. So he got less than $1.5 mil. Neither saw the entire amount they signed for and in essence they ended up being one year deals albeit for far more than vet minimum. But let's not assume either could have been signed for a vet minimum if only because they weren't. Pace loves those kind of deals so if either could have been had for a vet minimum don't you think that's how we would have signed them? Neither worked out but let's not go misrepresenting that we paid out $30 mil for these two guys. Facts Windy.....facts. And last season was not the first season the Bears have had cap constraints. But Pace and Laine have become more creative at working around them now. Windy has his own agenda and nothing you say will ever change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 On 8/11/2020 at 11:34 PM, JAF-N72EX said: Windy has his own agenda and nothing you say will ever change it. And you defend him like your his mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Demps, Rolle, and Cooper combined for 16 million guaranteed. They all sucked. They were not good signings. Even Ryan Pace's actual mother doesn't think they were good signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Windy's Agenda: Wanting better for this team than mediocrity. JAF and Soul's Agenda: Defending Mediocrity like it is an abandoned child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACK2MACKSACK Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Getting anything for Shaheen is a positive at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 4 hours ago, WindyCity said: Demps, Rolle, and Cooper combined for 16 million guaranteed. They all sucked. They were not good signings. Even Ryan Pace's actual mother doesn't think they were good signings. Oh, so that's you're answer? Rather then admit we never spent $30 mil on Cooper and Demps you add Rolle to the pile? You've love movin' the goal posts don't you but I don't play that game here. For that you'll need to move here and go into politics. You're a natural for it. If you wanna go that route let's do how many successes he's had with mid and late round draft picks and UDFAs who in total didn't cost us much more than those three if that. So yo mama says forgive my stubborn ill informed son. He was dropped on his head as a child and has never recovered. 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 On 8/13/2020 at 9:12 AM, WindyCity said: Windy's Agenda: Wanting better for this team than mediocrity. JAF and Soul's Agenda: Defending Mediocrity like it is an abandoned child. No.....I'm just defending a 20-12 record while you want to ignore that as badly as [REMOVED BY MOD] please keep all political comments to yourself. Ff has never allowed political discussion and never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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