Best In Your Division?

[EagleBlueDon]

13 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Yes.

Wait are you the Guice 2K rushing yards guy?

[Danger]

3 minutes ago, EagleBlueDon said:

Wait are you the Guice 2K rushing yards guy?

no... that's @aceinthehouse

[EagleBlueDon]

2 hours ago, Danger said:

no... that's @aceinthehouse

Lmao getting all these Washington fans mixed up

[diamondbull424]

On 7/30/2020 at 11:14 AM, buno67 said:

Chubb and Hunt are better. Its not even an argument. Its the only positional group the Browns have that are truly best in the division and potentially the league

 

To be fair you guys could also be given the advantage at punter in terms of positional group. Though I went with Koch mainly because he’s one of the best holders in the game as well as his consistency, but at this stage in their careers Gillan and Huber both have legit arguments in dethroning Koch.

That said, I stand by the Ravens having the superior RB group. Having played football, I find the idea that “FB” is divided into a separate group is sort of disingenuous. So I included FB into my RB grouping and that ended up being a factor in my decision.

To be fair, outside the safety battle between the Ravens and the Steelers, as well as the punters in the division, there was no tighter a battle than the RB breakdown IMO. But here’s why I decided to go with the Ravens:

1) Depth. Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt are both studs, but the depth behind them isn’t nearly as deep. Conversely, the Ravens have probably the deepest RB field of purely talented options. They’re 4 productive/talented RBs deep.

2) Scheme. The new zone blocking scheme; At Georgia, Chubb was much less effective when running from their ZBS than their MBS. He didn’t seem nearly as comfortable in his rushing style, he was good but it was Sony Michel’s productivity out of the ZBS that sometimes made people presume him to be the superior RB prospect to Chubb when in reality he was not the same quality of back. Hunt definitely has the rushing style to thrive well in this new running system, but Chubb is the more talented back and maximizing his talents, I find to be the more important component. Conversely the Ravens are bringing back the same system as last season. Ricard being the best blocking FB in the game plays a big part in allowing our RBs to be as productive as they are.

3) Production. The Browns RBs were 358 carries, 1743 yds, 4.87 YPC, 726 rec yds, 13 TDs, 17 AV points; The Ravens RBs were 393 carries, 1954 yds, 4.97 YPC, 409 rec yds, 20 TDs, 23 AV points. Browns: 1, Ravens: 4.

4) Talent push. The Browns have the more proven high end talents in Kareem Hunt and Nick Chubb. If we were just comparing the 2019 backfields I would be inclined to give them the advantage even considering the Ravens backs having had superior production as the Ravens backs benefit from Lamar Jackson and Hunt didn’t play for a full season. That said Hunt is a back that I would have similarly ranked as Mark Ingram as a talent overall. Hill as our 4th RB is better than any 3rd RB in the Browns rotation.

So what it comes down to is Chubb vs JKD/Gus. Which leads me to why I truly have the Ravens above the Browns; JK Dobbins. I was about as high as anyone on Nick Chubb coming out, I had him as a 4 1/2 star prospect that I felt was a surefire PB level talent that was just below the surefire All Pro level talent. His average hands and ZBS vision flaws were my only flaws in his game that I felt could hold him back from the AP level.

All that said about Nick Chubb, I have JK Dobbins on a similar level of talent as a surefire PB level talent at the RB position. He’s not the imposing and violent runner that Chubb is, however Dobbins is the superior athlete, has the superior move set, better versatility between ZBS/MBS vision, and more fluidity in the open field to make defenders miss as well as succeed as a superior RB receiving threat. So considering the fact that I view Chubb and JKD to be similarly talented, the only thing having me go Chubb would be that he’s more proven. However when I consider Gus Edwards into the equation as a power back that can average similar YPC as Chubb and has proven in 2018 that he could be “the guy” in the backfield as well... and I’m not seeing an advantage in talent for the Browns. At best it would be a push in talent.

5) Overall. With the talent largely being a push IMO that is where the production, scheme, and depth ultimately pushes the Ravens unit above the Browns, its better insulated from a drop in productivity due to injury or suspension concerns. Throw in a situation such as COVID-19 where depth becomes even more pertinent and the best backfield IMO becomes clear. Ingram, JK Dobbins, Gus the bus, Hill, Ricard > Chubb, Hunt, Johnson, Stanton, Janovich.

[HTTRDynasty]

29 minutes ago, EagleBlueDon said:

Lmao getting all these Washington fans mixed up

With that memory, I can see why it would take you more than a full season to evaluate a player 😄

[Danger]

3 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

With that memory, I can see why it would take you more than a full season to evaluate a player 😄

To be fair, you're not the most memorable or Washington* fans around here. 😅

Edited July 31, 2020 by Danger

[diamondbull424]

23 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Why would I mention Minkah at safety? You do realize that you have to have two good players to be considered a good unit, right? You seem to think that a good player + an abortion = good.

1. Abortion, really?

2. Terrell Edmunds isn’t a terrible player. He was just as good a safety last season as Bates and Bell, arguably better once he got a legit running mate next to him in Minkah.

[HTTRDynasty]

8 minutes ago, Danger said:

To be fair, you're not the most memorable or Washington* fans around here. 😅

I'll take that as a compliment, lol.

[buno67]

1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

3) Production. The Browns RBs were 358 carries, 1743 yds, 4.87 YPC, 726 rec yds, 13 TDs, 17 AV points; The Ravens RBs were 393 carries, 1954 yds, 4.97 YPC, 409 rec yds, 20 TDs, 23 AV points. Browns: 1, Ravens: 4.

 

This is a useless point. Browns production compared to the Ravens production isnt because of talent or ability. Raven's RB also had the ability to run off Lamar Jackson. Jackson's abilities opened up a lot things for the RBs. Ravens QB play made the rushing game better. Also that offense was properly built for running the ball. Freddie had no idea what he was doing. some people think the Browns had a good rushing attack last year cause Chubb almost won the rushing title. Browns' had a horrible rushing attack that heavily relied on Chubb's ability to run the ball. 

 

1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

2) Scheme. The new zone blocking scheme; At Georgia, Chubb was much less effective when running from their ZBS than their MBS. He didn’t seem nearly as comfortable in his rushing style, he was good but it was Sony Michel’s productivity out of the ZBS that sometimes made people presume him to be the superior RB prospect to Chubb when in reality he was not the same quality of back. Hunt definitely has the rushing style to thrive well in this new running system, but Chubb is the more talented back and maximizing his talents, I find to be the more important component. Conversely the Ravens are bringing back the same system as last season. Ricard being the best blocking FB in the game plays a big part in allowing our RBs to be as productive as they are.

I disagree. After Chubb blew his knee out he never looked comfortable running the ball. Which isnt surprised. They say to mentality get over a major knee injury like that he has takes 12-24 months. You dont get comfortable until you fully trust your knee and body wont get hurt. Chubb is running for the Browns like he was running at Georgia before he blew knee out. Even still, Chubb was a beast each year he was healthy to play every game. Sony only looked like a beast his final year. Also the past 2 seasons, the Browns have no be a pure MBS system. Hell, I believe all 3 of Chubb's TDs in that first game match up with the Browns were different zone type plays. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOobYc_Wcnw

Watch the video, do you think he will struggle at zone concepts. He has been very good in his career so far, knowing when he should  bounce a run outside, plant his foot and get up field, and when to cut it back. Usually when a RB struggled in running zone, its when they are arent able to grasp that feel or bouncing out, planting down, or cutting back. 

The scheme for the Browns should make Chubb and Hunt even better. You say Chubb is the more talented back but in one aspect. As a pure runner, yeah, Chubb is better. If we are talking about overall talent, it might be Hunt. Hunt is one hell of a threat out of the backfield. Ravens dont have a back that can line up at WR like Hunt can. Hunt will be playing some WR this year, so the Browns can get both Hunt and Chubb on the field at the same time. I also believe Hunt is the better blocker as well. So Chubb and Hunt should compliment each other very well and the scheme should really do good things for the Browns and their RBs.

1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

1) Depth. Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt are both studs, but the depth behind them isn’t nearly as deep. Conversely, the Ravens have probably the deepest RB field of purely talented options. They’re 4 productive/talented RBs deep.

I kinda disagree. We gotta see what Dobbins can do in the league first. He should be good but he has to prove it first. Where was this productive depth when Ingram went down and wasnt healthy because of his calf issue??  Browns lose Hunt and Chubb to injury they are screwed. If Ravens lose Ingram and Dobbins, I believe they are screwed. Gus and Hill are not special

 

2 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

4) Talent push.

All that said about Nick Chubb, I have JK Dobbins on a similar level of talent as a surefire PB level talent at the RB position. He’s not the imposing and violent runner that Chubb is, however Dobbins is the superior athlete, has the superior move set, better versatility between ZBS/MBS vision, and more fluidity in the open field to make defenders miss as well as succeed as a superior RB receiving threat. So considering the fact that I view Chubb and JKD to be similarly talented, the only thing having me go Chubb would be that he’s more proven. However when I consider Gus Edwards into the equation as a power back that can average similar YPC as Chubb and has proven in 2018 that he could be “the guy” in the backfield as well... and I’m not seeing an advantage in talent for the Browns. At best it would be a push in talent.

Im sorry, Dobbins doesnt get to step into the league as an automatic stud. If he was seen as that immediate impact runner, he wouldnt have been a 2nd round pick. I love Dobbins as a buckeye fan but I dont see him being this immediate impact runner right away. You basically said Dobbins is going to be a top5/top3 RB because that is what Chubb is. At tOSU, they only ran zone, so how do we know he can be great in the man schemes??? Also again, cant call him a superior RB receiving threat when he really wasnt that tOSU. The damage he did in the passing game was in the screen game. He isnt going to pick up these amazing skills just because he was drafted. He is unproven as a receiving threat and he is not that great of a blocker. His pass blocking was his greatest weakness in college. 

You cant go 1 for 2. Saying Dobbins and Gus together equal Chubb because you cant. when you start having RBs who only do certain things, you start giving up tells and tendencies that defenses can pick up on 

Sorry, Chub is viewed as a top tier back, no one on the ravens is considered that. Dobbin could be but he has to prove it first.

[ET80]

3 hours ago, EagleBlueDon said:

Lmao getting all these Washington fans mixed up

We try to not talk about fans.

Tks.

[DreamKid]

43 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Ravens dont have a back that can line up at WR like Hunt can. Hunt will be playing some WR this year, so the Browns can get both Hunt and Chubb on the field at the same time.

FWIW The Ravens lined up Justice Hill at WR multiple times. Roman and Co. liked putting his speed out there to stretch the defense at times.

Also is Hunt really going to be playing WR? That should be interesting.

47 minutes ago, buno67 said:

I love Dobbins as a buckeye fan but I dont see him being this immediate impact runner right away.

What's funny is @diamondbull424 is a massive Chubb fan, and has been since before the draft. And now the Ravens drafted Dobbins who he was really high on as well. So if JK becomes any kind of star player the Ravens/Dobbins vs Browns/Chubb debates will be interesting, especially when you add in the OSU connection for Cleveland fans.

[KingOfNewYork]

7 hours ago, scar988 said:

Adam Gase had 2 good years with Peyton and now everyone is realizing, Peyton wrote his own offense and Gase was his assistant OC.

Peyton didn't, he just had such a great mind about the offense he knew what to do, young players take time with that. Gase was running McDaniels offense and still does to this day. Look at Peyton's stats in Denver the year before Gase took over as OC then look at the season he had with Gase. 

[diamondbull424]

2 hours ago, buno67 said:

This is a useless point. Browns production compared to the Ravens production isnt because of talent or ability. Raven's RB also had the ability to run off Lamar Jackson. Jackson's abilities opened up a lot things for the RBs. Ravens QB play made the rushing game better. Also that offense was properly built for running the ball. Freddie had no idea what he was doing. some people think the Browns had a good rushing attack last year cause Chubb almost won the rushing title. Browns' had a horrible rushing attack that heavily relied on Chubb's ability to run the ball. 

It’s almost impossible to eliminate Lamar Jackson opening up holes out of the equation. Lamar’s impact is A PART of the scheme, even if I don’t include him as a runner. Trying to say “Lamar” makes the RBs better is like saying Kyle Shanahan’s ZBS makes his RBs better. It does, but those SF running backs will still be playing in Shanahan scheme. They will still be tasked with producing in a Shanahan scheme, just like the Browns RBs will have to produce in Stefanski’s scheme and the Ravens RBs will have to produce in a Roman scheme.

2 hours ago, buno67 said:

I disagree. After Chubb blew his knee out he never looked comfortable running the ball. Which isnt surprised. They say to mentality get over a major knee injury like that he has takes 12-24 months. You dont get comfortable until you fully trust your knee and body wont get hurt. Chubb is running for the Browns like he was running at Georgia before he blew knee out. Even still, Chubb was a beast each year he was healthy to play every game. Sony only looked like a beast his final year. Also the past 2 seasons, the Browns have no be a pure MBS system. Hell, I believe all 3 of Chubb's TDs in that first game match up with the Browns were different zone type plays. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOobYc_Wcnw

Watch the video, do you think he will struggle at zone concepts. He has been very good in his career so far, knowing when he should  bounce a run outside, plant his foot and get up field, and when to cut it back. Usually when a RB struggled in running zone, its when they are arent able to grasp that feel or bouncing out, planting down, or cutting back. 

The scheme for the Browns should make Chubb and Hunt even better. You say Chubb is the more talented back but in one aspect. As a pure runner, yeah, Chubb is better. If we are talking about overall talent, it might be Hunt. Hunt is one hell of a threat out of the backfield. Ravens dont have a back that can line up at WR like Hunt can. Hunt will be playing some WR this year, so the Browns can get both Hunt and Chubb on the field at the same time. I also believe Hunt is the better blocker as well. So Chubb and Hunt should compliment each other very well and the scheme should really do good things for the Browns and their RBs.

There was a clear difference between Chubb running behind Georgia’s MBS and their ZBS, it wasn’t a knee injury thing. He was running just as hard his final season at Georgia as he’s been running for the Browns, he’s the same physical specimen. Sure the first season back, you could tell a noticeable difference in his running style. But his senior season he was the same guy as he is now, which still isn’t quite the same level of back that he was/could have been prior to his injury... where he seemed to have a little more foot quickness and balance. But considering his injury, he’s still quite the stud. Anyways, let me get back on track before my man crush activates. Point of the matter is in college Georgia starting to implement a lot more inside zone concepts for that 2016 season vs the power man. I can’t recall exactly from the pre-draft time period but Chubb averaged something like 6.3 YPC running in man vs something like 5.1 YPC running behind zone (not sure how to find the exact numbers). Whereas Michel was something ridiculous like 8 YPC behind zone and like 5.3 YPC behind man. Don’t quote me on any of these exact numbers, I just recall it was in some sort of tweet, graphic, or YouTube video from that time period. Either way my point is simply that Chubb is more natural in a power scheme. Chubb runs similar to Jamal Lewis in that they have a lot of power and very good long speed, but they aren’t possessed of the hip flexibility, fluidity, and foot quickness that makes for an ideal zone scheme back. I didn’t say he couldn’t do it. He could do it in college. I’m saying I question if its the best use of his skill set and if it might not make him a less efficient runner. I don’t think the new scheme will have any adverse impact on Kareem Hunt, I think he’s got the kind of feet and flexibility to thrive in that system.

2 hours ago, buno67 said:

I kinda disagree. We gotta see what Dobbins can do in the league first. He should be good but he has to prove it first. Where was this productive depth when Ingram went down and wasnt healthy because of his calf issue??  Browns lose Hunt and Chubb to injury they are screwed. If Ravens lose Ingram and Dobbins, I believe they are screwed. Gus and Hill are not special

The first part is a fair point. I do typically err on the side of the proven talent. This is part of the reason why I went back and forth with this decision but ultimately decided to go with Baltimore. In terms of the productive depth when Ingram went down, the very next game Gus rushed for 130 yds on 21 carries against the Steelers top 10 defense in what was a must win game for them, where they knew we needed to rush for enough yards to break the team rushing record... they knew what we were going to do and with Gus as the main guy we were still able to do it. In his past two seasons Gus Edwards has started 7 games; the last 6 games of 2018 and week 17 last season, in those games he’s averaged 95.6 YPG on 5.31 YPC. There is more than enough evidence to suggest that he could carry the load in the event of injury to both Dobbins and Ingram. There’s a stark difference between your 3rd best RB who can put up those numbers with and without Lamar Jackson in the lineup and the 3rd string back of a team that put up less than 100 yds rushing on something like 3.8 YPC. Now a new system could help, but as it stands there’s a firm difference in reliability.

2 hours ago, buno67 said:

Im sorry, Dobbins doesnt get to step into the league as an automatic stud. If he was seen as that immediate impact runner, he wouldnt have been a 2nd round pick. I love Dobbins as a buckeye fan but I dont see him being this immediate impact runner right away. You basically said Dobbins is going to be a top5/top3 RB because that is what Chubb is. At tOSU, they only ran zone, so how do we know he can be great in the man schemes??? Also again, cant call him a superior RB receiving threat when he really wasnt that tOSU. The damage he did in the passing game was in the screen game. He isnt going to pick up these amazing skills just because he was drafted. He is unproven as a receiving threat and he is not that great of a blocker. His pass blocking was his greatest weakness in college. 

You cant go 1 for 2. Saying Dobbins and Gus together equal Chubb because you cant. when you start having RBs who only do certain things, you start giving up tells and tendencies that defenses can pick up on 

Sorry, Chub is viewed as a top tier back, no one on the ravens is considered that. Dobbin could be but he has to prove it first.

That is true, it probably isn’t fair of me to assume Dobbins will be an impact player from the jump, but its the RB position. It’s not as if we’re talking about a position that historically takes a longer time to register an impact such as CB or IDL or something. If a RB isn’t a stud by year two, he’s probably never going to be that guy. So while I find your point very fair here and its why I cant fault the people taking the Browns RBs over the Ravens here, I also don’t think its very unreasonable to project RB talent. The way I see it Dobbins will likely be sort of a 2a/2b situation with Gus Edwards so I find their combined impact to be relevant when comparing these backfields.

What’s more I didn’t say he’s going to be a top 3-5 RB this season, otherwise I would easily take our backfield over the Browns because if Chubb and Dobbins cancel each other out and Ingram and Hunt cancel each other out, you’re left with Gus and Hill and a pro bowl FB in Patrick Ricard. That said, do I think JKD is a top 5 RB within the next two seasons? Absolutely. Similar to how once Chubb finally started to be trusted in the backfield he took off his rookie season and hasn’t looked back, I project similar with Dobbins... only in a deeper backfield. So his version of “taking off” might be only 650-750 YFS but it’ll be setting him up for huge success the following season as “the guy”.

In terms of OSU, they ran both zone and man blocking concepts during his tenure there. Dobbins was effective in gap plays and the outside zone plays. So as a fan of the team, I’m not sure where you got the notion that they didn’t run man blocking concepts there and that they ONLY run zone. In 2019 an exclusive blocking scheme that doesn’t have any variations would be nearly asinine.

RB receiving ability isn’t just about looking at the stat sheet, but also about projecting traits. Just like prior to the Ravens, Rutgers didn’t really utilize Ray Rice as a receiving option, but then he became a huge receiving option with the Ravens because of his fluidity in the open field. Dobbins is someone you want to get into space against a LB and let him work, he’s going to be given plenty of outlet opportunities in the Ravens scheme because of the traits he brings to the table. It’ll keep Lamar from having to do as much damage in space and protect him a bit more by virtue of getting a guy who can pick up a similar amount of yards but who plays a position that is built for that type of damage.

Lastly, Chubb is indeed a top shelf back. Currently the Ravens don’t have someone on that level, but my argument doesn’t rely on any of them having to be that. The number of RBs in that top 10-50 range, along with a pro bowl FB added to the backfield is my argument for the Ravens backfield being the one to bank on being the most productive again in 2020 as in 2019.

[roysmyboy31]

NFC East

 

QB: Cowboys (Honestly, Dak and Wentz are super close with each having their own unique strengths and weaknesses.  Feel like Dak has the edge in overall consistency with Wentz having more upside/raw ability)
RB: Cowboys (Zeke combined with a very versatile COP back like Tony Pollard gives them the edge over NYG)
WR: Cowboys (Cooper/Gallup/Lamb)
TE: Eagles (Ertz/Goedert)
OT: Eagles (Lane Johnson edges out La'El Collins and while Tyron Smith is still the best overall LT, he is getting older and has injury concerns.  Combination of Dillard and Peters on the left side is solid.  Eagles get a slight edge here)
OG: Giants (Like the overall balance of Zeitler and Hernandez and I think Will Hernandez will only get better)
OC: Eagles (Kelce)

DE/EDGE:  Washington (Allen/Young/Ioannidis/Kerrigan/Sweat)
DT: Eagles (Cox/Hargrave/Jackson/Ridgeway)
LB: Cowboys ( Smith/LVE/Lee)
CB: Eagles  (Slay is the best overall CB in the division and have good depth behind him)
S:  Eagles

K: Cowboys (just because I am banking on Zuerlein bouncing back from a down year.  Zuerlein has been one of the best kickers in the game for a long time)
P: Washington (Way)
RET: No idea, not much in this division.

 

 

Eagles: 6
Cowboys: 5
Washington: 2
Giants : 1

[candyman93]

19 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

To be fair you guys could also be given the advantage at punter in terms of positional group. Though I went with Koch mainly because he’s one of the best holders in the game as well as his consistency, but at this stage in their careers Gillan and Huber both have legit arguments in dethroning Koch.

That said, I stand by the Ravens having the superior RB group. Having played football, I find the idea that “FB” is divided into a separate group is sort of disingenuous. So I included FB into my RB grouping and that ended up being a factor in my decision.

To be fair, outside the safety battle between the Ravens and the Steelers, as well as the punters in the division, there was no tighter a battle than the RB breakdown IMO. But here’s why I decided to go with the Ravens:

1) Depth. Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt are both studs, but the depth behind them isn’t nearly as deep. Conversely, the Ravens have probably the deepest RB field of purely talented options. They’re 4 productive/talented RBs deep.

2) Scheme. The new zone blocking scheme; At Georgia, Chubb was much less effective when running from their ZBS than their MBS. He didn’t seem nearly as comfortable in his rushing style, he was good but it was Sony Michel’s productivity out of the ZBS that sometimes made people presume him to be the superior RB prospect to Chubb when in reality he was not the same quality of back. Hunt definitely has the rushing style to thrive well in this new running system, but Chubb is the more talented back and maximizing his talents, I find to be the more important component. Conversely the Ravens are bringing back the same system as last season. Ricard being the best blocking FB in the game plays a big part in allowing our RBs to be as productive as they are.

3) Production. The Browns RBs were 358 carries, 1743 yds, 4.87 YPC, 726 rec yds, 13 TDs, 17 AV points; The Ravens RBs were 393 carries, 1954 yds, 4.97 YPC, 409 rec yds, 20 TDs, 23 AV points. Browns: 1, Ravens: 4.

4) Talent push. The Browns have the more proven high end talents in Kareem Hunt and Nick Chubb. If we were just comparing the 2019 backfields I would be inclined to give them the advantage even considering the Ravens backs having had superior production as the Ravens backs benefit from Lamar Jackson and Hunt didn’t play for a full season. That said Hunt is a back that I would have similarly ranked as Mark Ingram as a talent overall. Hill as our 4th RB is better than any 3rd RB in the Browns rotation.

So what it comes down to is Chubb vs JKD/Gus. Which leads me to why I truly have the Ravens above the Browns; JK Dobbins. I was about as high as anyone on Nick Chubb coming out, I had him as a 4 1/2 star prospect that I felt was a surefire PB level talent that was just below the surefire All Pro level talent. His average hands and ZBS vision flaws were my only flaws in his game that I felt could hold him back from the AP level.

All that said about Nick Chubb, I have JK Dobbins on a similar level of talent as a surefire PB level talent at the RB position. He’s not the imposing and violent runner that Chubb is, however Dobbins is the superior athlete, has the superior move set, better versatility between ZBS/MBS vision, and more fluidity in the open field to make defenders miss as well as succeed as a superior RB receiving threat. So considering the fact that I view Chubb and JKD to be similarly talented, the only thing having me go Chubb would be that he’s more proven. However when I consider Gus Edwards into the equation as a power back that can average similar YPC as Chubb and has proven in 2018 that he could be “the guy” in the backfield as well... and I’m not seeing an advantage in talent for the Browns. At best it would be a push in talent.

5) Overall. With the talent largely being a push IMO that is where the production, scheme, and depth ultimately pushes the Ravens unit above the Browns, its better insulated from a drop in productivity due to injury or suspension concerns. Throw in a situation such as COVID-19 where depth becomes even more pertinent and the best backfield IMO becomes clear. Ingram, JK Dobbins, Gus the bus, Hill, Ricard > Chubb, Hunt, Johnson, Stanton, Janovich.

As an Ohio State fan, I could argue JK was the product of a monster offensive line and an aerial assault that took pressure off of him. Justin Fields is possibly the best QB in OSU history. Dwayne Haskins was a monster as well.

Edited August 1, 2020 by candyman93