Multiple players opt out of 2020 season: RT Cannon, LB Hightower, five others

[GSUeagles14]

58 minutes ago, Xenos said:

The same reason I got paid to not go to work during a pandemic. Granted it was only for two weeks.

its great that you did, doesnt mean you should. "because i did" is not a real reason, if you feel it is should i point to the many people who did not get paid, or worse, were made jobless?

[Xenos]

1 hour ago, GSUeagles14 said:

its great that you did, doesnt mean you should. "because i did" is not a real reason, if you feel it is should i point to the many people who did not get paid, or worse, were made jobless?

Well that’s why certain places have bargaining agreements. And I disagree about “should”given what’s happening right now. The people who did not get paid or were made jobless should also be compensated fairly. 

[GSUeagles14]

1 hour ago, Xenos said:

Well that’s why certain places have bargaining agreements. And I disagree about “should”given what’s happening right now. The people who did not get paid or were made jobless should also be compensated fairly. 

could you point me in the right direction on where exactly it says players are entitled to free money if they choose not to play the season? I could be completely wrong, maybe it was negotiated that players are entitled to x amount if a force majeure or whatever legal language happens. 

 

 

[JAF-N72EX]

10 hours ago, scar988 said:

I could say something, but this forum says to not get into politics. I'll just leave this at the CBA that governs the players and owners had an addendum for the COVID situation we're in. That is why a player should be paid if he's not going to work.

And just to add to this, there is also moral reasoning and understanding for still paying employees during a time that nobody and their mother could have ever seen coming, and it's times like these that really bring out the best or worst of all business owners and shows their true colors.

I can't speak for everyone else's employer, but I'm a small business owner myself and I have 6 employees (not including my shared accountant and contractors). And when I was forced to shutdown the shop back in February, I immediately assured all of them that they would still get paid until I could figure out the next move and I did that for along time, even at the risk of losing the company altogether -- 1st Q fiscal year (which is the WORST TIME) with alot of uncertainty for the future. I took money out of my own pocket to pay all of my expenses (employees, office fees, lot rent, etc).  Even the 15 year old that I had JUST hired before this C9 crap to clean-up around the property all because he wants to go to college to be a technologist with nasa (or something like that, I don't know the official label) and his dad just broke his back in car wreck and his mother is a stay-at-home mom with no experience. 

The point is, as an owner, I understood that these were abnormal circumstances and my employees (along with their families) relied heavily on those pay checks and commission every week and it's not thier fault that this happened. So I didn't feel right by not paying them and taking an already stressful situation (C19) and making it much worse by piling on additional financial worry ontop of it. I eventually found a way to make it work for them so they can still work (remotely). But now, I don't even know how all of this will turn out for any of us in the end. 

Now I say all that to say this. The NFL may be a huge evil corporation who only cares about money and my piddly *** small business may not even be a speck on their large conglomerate radar but I gotta believe that even some these owners feel the same way as I do. And even if they don't, the players still have a union that is protecting them.  

[Soko]

5 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

And just to add to this, there is also moral reasoning and understanding for still paying employees during a time that nobody and their mother could have ever seen coming, and it's times like these that really bring out the best or worst of all business owners and shows their true colors.

I can't speak for everyone else's employer, but I'm a small business owner myself and I have 6 employees (not including my shared accountant and contractors). And when I was forced to shutdown the shop back in February, I immediately assured all of them that they would still get paid until I could figure out the next move and I did that for along time, even at the risk of losing the company altogether -- 1st Q fiscal year (which is the WORST TIME) with alot of uncertainty for the future. I took money out of my own pocket to pay all of my expenses (employees, office fees, lot rent, etc).  Even the 15 year old that I had JUST hired before this C9 crap to clean-up around the property all because he wants to go to college to be a technologist with nasa (or something like that, I don't know the official label) and his dad just broke his back in car wreck and his mother is a stay-at-home mom with no experience. 

The point is, as an owner, I understood that these were abnormal circumstances and my employees (along with their families) relied heavily on those pay checks and commission every week and it's not thier fault that this happened. So I didn't feel right by not paying them and taking an already stressful situation (C19) and making it much worse by piling on additional financial worry ontop of it. I eventually found a way to make it work for them so they can still work (remotely). But now, I don't even know how all of this will turn out for any of us in the end. 

Now I say all that to say this. The NFL may be a huge evil corporation who only cares about money and my piddly *** small business may not even be a speck on their large conglomerate radar but I gotta believe that even some these owners feel the same way as I do. And even if they don't, the players still have a union that is protecting them.  

Props to you for doing a good thing for your employees. If I worked for a small business or even a corporation, I’m not sure I would expect a salary if I wasn’t expected to work for months on end. I think it’s awesome when companies do decide to do that, especially small business owners such as yourself who may not be so easily able to do so, but I understand the other side of the coin fully. 

The biggest difference I think is the scale, obviously, and that most players aren’t using the league to carve out a living week-to-week. The payout is pretty substantial if you aren’t recouping it (which I’m sure the league is in some way). 

[scar988]

8 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

And just to add to this, there is also moral reasoning and understanding for still paying employees during a time that nobody and their mother could have ever seen coming, and it's times like these that really bring out the best or worst of all business owners and shows their true colors.

I can't speak for everyone else's employer, but I'm a small business owner myself and I have 6 employees (not including my shared accountant and contractors). And when I was forced to shutdown the shop back in February, I immediately assured all of them that they would still get paid until I could figure out the next move and I did that for along time, even at the risk of losing the company altogether -- 1st Q fiscal year (which is the WORST TIME) with alot of uncertainty for the future. I took money out of my own pocket to pay all of my expenses (employees, office fees, lot rent, etc).  Even the 15 year old that I had JUST hired before this C9 crap to clean-up around the property all because he wants to go to college to be a technologist with nasa (or something like that, I don't know the official label) and his dad just broke his back in car wreck and his mother is a stay-at-home mom with no experience. 

The point is, as an owner, I understood that these were abnormal circumstances and my employees (along with their families) relied heavily on those pay checks and commission every week and it's not thier fault that this happened. So I didn't feel right by not paying them and taking an already stressful situation (C19) and making it much worse by piling on additional financial worry ontop of it. I eventually found a way to make it work for them so they can still work (remotely). But now, I don't even know how all of this will turn out for any of us in the end. 

Now I say all that to say this. The NFL may be a huge evil corporation who only cares about money and my piddly *** small business may not even be a speck on their large conglomerate radar but I gotta believe that even some these owners feel the same way as I do. And even if they don't, the players still have a union that is protecting them.  

I'm just gonna say I agree before I get into political speak. (And I honestly do agree)

Edited August 7, 2020 by scar988

[GSUeagles14]

9 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

And just to add to this, there is also moral reasoning and understanding for still paying employees during a time that nobody and their mother could have ever seen coming, and it's times like these that really bring out the best or worst of all business owners and shows their true colors.

I can't speak for everyone else's employer, but I'm a small business owner myself and I have 6 employees (not including my shared accountant and contractors). And when I was forced to shutdown the shop back in February, I immediately assured all of them that they would still get paid until I could figure out the next move and I did that for along time, even at the risk of losing the company altogether -- 1st Q fiscal year (which is the WORST TIME) with alot of uncertainty for the future. I took money out of my own pocket to pay all of my expenses (employees, office fees, lot rent, etc).  Even the 15 year old that I had JUST hired before this C9 crap to clean-up around the property all because he wants to go to college to be a technologist with nasa (or something like that, I don't know the official label) and his dad just broke his back in car wreck and his mother is a stay-at-home mom with no experience. 

The point is, as an owner, I understood that these were abnormal circumstances and my employees (along with their families) relied heavily on those pay checks and commission every week and it's not thier fault that this happened. So I didn't feel right by not paying them and taking an already stressful situation (C19) and making it much worse by piling on additional financial worry ontop of it. I eventually found a way to make it work for them so they can still work (remotely). But now, I don't even know how all of this will turn out for any of us in the end. 

Now I say all that to say this. The NFL may be a huge evil corporation who only cares about money and my piddly *** small business may not even be a speck on their large conglomerate radar but I gotta believe that even some these owners feel the same way as I do. And even if they don't, the players still have a union that is protecting them.  

that awesome that you did a good thing, but businesses shouldnt be expected to pay for no work, nor does it make them bad or evil if they dont. and without getting too deep into it, for most people there was an avenue to collect most or all (or even more) of your lost income. obviously that doesnt apply to nfl players. 

 

As i asked @Xenos, why should players get paid for not playing? Im still unclear on this.

[Xenos]

27 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

that awesome that you did a good thing, but businesses shouldnt be expected to pay for no work, nor does it make them bad or evil if they dont. and without getting too deep into it, for most people there was an avenue to collect most or all (or even more) of your lost income. obviously that doesnt apply to nfl players. 

 

As i asked @Xenos, why should players get paid for not playing? Im still unclear on this.

@JAF-N72EX already provided a great breakdown of why players should be paid. And they’re not even being “paid” that substantial of a salary for opting out. With something like the NBA, I can understand not being paid since they actually did everything in their power to ensure their players’ safety and well-being.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Xenos

[GSUeagles14]

1 hour ago, Xenos said:

@JAF-N72EX already provided a great breakdown of why players should be paid. And they’re not even being “paid” that substantial of a salary for opting out. With something like the NBA, I can understand not being paid since they actually did everything in their power to ensure their players’ safety and well-being.

well no, he didnt. he did something for nice for a few employees... i wont go further than that because it was absolutely a nice thing to do. 

 

because itd be nice is not a real reason. heck you said "certain places have bargaining agreements", i made the mistake of assuming you meant the nfl. Is that not what you meant? IS there an actual reason players should be paid other than to be nice?

[Xenos]

36 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

well no, he didnt. he did something for nice for a few employees... i wont go further than that because it was absolutely a nice thing to do. 

 

because itd be nice is not a real reason. heck you said "certain places have bargaining agreements", i made the mistake of assuming you meant the nfl. Is that not what you meant? IS there an actual reason players should be paid other than to be nice?

I don't know where you got the idea that it's just about being nice. It's just common sense from an economic and financial standpoint as well given that we're in the middle of a pandemic. Safety should be the priority if you want long term economic success. When you do what is right for your employees, it tends to pay off in the end. When it's the opposite view, where it's profits over safety, then that usually comes back in the worst ways.

Additionally, as I already mentioned before, the NBA is currently an example of an organization that is doing it right and protecting its players with the bubble. They are doing everything in their power to ensure that their players are safe. Therefore, if a player did not opt out in that sport, it would make sense that they would not get paid. Cannot say the same thing about the NFL. And the least a multi-billion corporation like the NFL could do is pay their players, even if it's relatively a small amount, to keep them safe.

At the end of the day, your argument is people should not be paid if they do not work.

My position is that there is a legitimate safety reason for people not working, and that they should not be punished for it.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Xenos

[GSUeagles14]

6 minutes ago, Xenos said:

I don't know where you got the idea that it's just about being nice. It's just common sense from an economic and financial standpoint as well given that we're in the middle of a pandemic. Safety should be the priority if you want long term economic success. When you do what is right for your employees, it tends to pay off in the end. When it's the opposite view, where it's profits over safety, then that usually comes back in the worst ways.

Additionally, as I already mentioned before, the NBA is currently an example of an organization that is doing it right and protecting its players with the bubble. They are doing everything in their power to ensure that their players are safe. Therefore, if a player did not opt out in that sport, it would make sense that they would not get paid. Cannot say the same thing about the NFL. And the least a multi-billion corporation like the NFL could do is pay their players, even if it's relatively a small amount, to keep them safe.

At the end of the day, your argument is people should not be paid if they do not work.

My position is that there is a legitimate safety reason for people not working, and that they should not be punished for it.

yes, my position is you should not be paid for not working. Groundbreaking. 

 

What the nfl makes is irrelevant. what the nba is doing is irrelevant. If players dont get paid, how does that make them unsafe? Should all business have to pay people who choose not to work? If not, who gets to decide who has to pay and who doesnt?

 

Theres so many examples of why this just isnt smart. Since safety is your main prioirity, what do you do for homeless people when asked for money/food( and im not sure where you live... id love to take you on a tour of atlanta if you dont have this problem). Surely youre getting them a hotel for at least a few days? i mean, its so much safer for everyone and obviously a majority of homeless people dont actually aspire to be homeless. 

[Joe_is_the_best]

I think there’s a difference between making businesses pay people who wont work & a business deciding to offer paid leave to their employees. Just saying.

[Xenos]

24 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

yes, my position is you should not be paid for not working. Groundbreaking. 

 

What the nfl makes is irrelevant. what the nba is doing is irrelevant. If players dont get paid, how does that make them unsafe? Should all business have to pay people who choose not to work? If not, who gets to decide who has to pay and who doesnt?

 

Theres so many examples of why this just isnt smart. Since safety is your main prioirity, what do you do for homeless people when asked for money/food( and im not sure where you live... id love to take you on a tour of atlanta if you dont have this problem). Surely youre getting them a hotel for at least a few days? i mean, its so much safer for everyone and obviously a majority of homeless people dont actually aspire to be homeless. 

At this point, let's stop it here since it's going off topic.

[GSUeagles14]

18 minutes ago, Joe_is_the_best said:

I think there’s a difference between making businesses pay people who wont work & a business deciding to offer paid leave to their employees. Just saying.

sure, my issue is when people are saying the nfl or any other company should pay for people not working.

 

the same logic for that being said could be applied to a multitude of other things. its starting to get too far away from the thread but my point is the nfl isnt wrong, bad or evil for not paying and players arent getting screwed over.

[Xenos]

25 minutes ago, Joe_is_the_best said:

I think there’s a difference between making businesses pay people who wont work & a business deciding to offer paid leave to their employees. Just saying.

It's all context right? If there's a legitimate reason like a health crisis where players can cause a pandemic to get worse and bring harm to their family and friends (not only to themselves), then I strongly believe that the NFL should offer paid leave to its employees. It's not like $150K is that much in the grand scheme of the NFL anyways.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Xenos