Is Geno Atkins a Hall of Famer?

[TecmoSuperJoe]

18 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Warren Sapp had 13 years under his belt and was widely regarded as the best DT in the game for multiple seasons and played for a defense that led the team to a SB win. The same as Ngata. Atkins don't quite have that resume just yet. 

Right, but it shouldn't be Atkins' fault that the Bengals never got their act together. Sadly, that will be used against him like it has for a lot of other Bengals players. I think Anthony Munoz is their only HOF player, which is pretty absurd. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by TecmoSuperJoe

[JAF-N72EX]

2 minutes ago, HoboRocket said:

I don't know. I guess I have different opinions from a lot of people here. Geno Atkins is a game-wrecker. Teams have been trying to find an interior pass rusher in his mold for a long time, and really the only other guy like him who has had sustainable success is Aaron Donald.

Ndamukong Suh arguably peaked as a rookie. He was really hot coming into the league, and a lot of that since then has been reputation. For the Rams and at least part of his career with the Dolphins, he was JAG with a big name. Like, yeah, he had that incredible 2014 season.

Geno Atkins, meanwhile, has been as steady as they come while playing as a sawed-off DT in a division with a lot of really good IOL during his career. I mean, this guy was getting double-digit sacks yearly facing off against guys like Marshall Yanda, David DeCastro, Kevin Zeitler, Joel Bitonio, and Maurkice Pouncey multiple times a year. DTs just don't get his numbers.

Think of it this way. While Suh has undoubtedly been getting more attention as someone who took the league by storm as a rookie, had a big personality with plenty of drama both on the field and in the locker room, Atkins has nearly 20 more sacks than him in the same length of time, but has kind of flown under some people's radar because he's a model citizen playing on a mostly irrelevant team.

He has multiple First-team All-Pros, so it's not like he hasn't had an awesome peak. And the argument could be made that if Aaron Donald hadn't been drawing all the glory at that position during his DPOY campaigns, Atkins might have more notoriety. I mean, his numbers and play were 1st-team All-Pro caliber from 2016-2018 but Donald garnered those votes during that same time frame for being even more freakish.

Teams have drafted guys like Ed Oliver, Quinnen Williams, and Solomon Thomas in recent years trying to get guys in the Aaron Donald/Geno Atkins mold. He impacted the game and kind of changed the way that teams looked at DTs before AD was even in the league.

In my mind he definitely has a case for the Hall.

I disagree with your opinion on Suh and I won't derail this thread any further on that. But good post nonetheless. The argument about Atkins opposing division OL's is a good point. I'll concede to that.

But, has he ever been considered the best DT/NT in football in any given year? Has he ever had success in the playoffs? Has he ever been part of a #1 defense? 

Those were rhetorical questions, obviously, but these are the type of questions that are going to be brought up by voters whenever the time comes. 

I also recognize that he has played in an era with alot of other good players at his position like Suh, Cox, Donald, etc. But that still doesn't take away from the fact he hasn't ever been the best at his position in a single season. Top-3 at times, sure, but not the best. This is the whole "is Philip Rivers a HoFer" argument all over again.  

Again, he's close and his career isn't over and he still has chance. But right now he's sits in the hall of very good. 

[JAF-N72EX]

16 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Right, but it shouldn't be Atkins' fault that the Bengals never got their act together. Sadly, that will be used against him like it has for a lot of other Bengals players. I think Anthony Munoz is their only HOF player, which is pretty absurd. 

It's not the Bengals fault that he has never been regarded as the best at his position. 

[Thelonebillsfan]

Atkins was regarded as the best DT in the game for a few years and is a key person that led to the revolutionizing of the position with the modern pass rushing hybrid DT.

But he's fallen off slightly since then and his teams have been... really bad, so he needs probably 2 more all-pros and to be a contributor, not necessarily a star, on a winning team for one playoff run. I think he probably should be, but right now no they probably don't put him in.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Thelonebillsfan

[HoboRocket]

Meh, Atkins was the best DT in 2012 for sure. He was on-par with Donald and ahead of Cox in 2015. 

[Thelonebillsfan]

2 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

It's not the Bengals fault that he has never been regarded as the best at his position. 

There are years where he absolutely was regarded as the best among people "in the know". 2012 he was absolutely regarded as the best, and I'd argue 13 as well. In fact you can probably go to the old site and see the takes about it at the time.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Thelonebillsfan

[HoboRocket]

1 minute ago, Thelonebillsfan said:

Atkins was regarded as the best DT in the game for a few years and is a key person that led to the revolutionizing of the position with the modern pass rushing hybrid DT.

But he's fallen off slightly since then and his teams have been... really bad, so he needs probably 2 more all-pros and to be a contributor, not necessarily a star, on a winning team for one playoff run. I think he probably should be, but right now no they probably don't put him in.

Yeah, I remember him being called the best DT in the NFL. He was the NFL's top dog at 3-tech right before Aaron Donald's peak.

[JAF-N72EX]

5 minutes ago, Thelonebillsfan said:

There are years where he absolutely was regarded as the best among people "in the know". 2012 he was absolutely regarded as the best, and I'd argue 13 as well.

I don't know who these "in the know" people are that you're talking about. But I disagree. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

24 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

It's not the Bengals fault that he has never been regarded as the best at his position. 

Yet he's had two first team All Pros, which means yes he has been regarded as the best at his position. 

[JAF-N72EX]

42 minutes ago, Thelonebillsfan said:

There are years where he absolutely was regarded as the best among people "in the know". 2012 he was absolutely regarded as the best, and I'd argue 13 as well.

Edit: Quoted the wrong person. 

@TecmoSuperJoe

I'm not going any further into this. I've said my piece. If you want to ignore what other players at his position have done then by all means.  

Edited July 29, 2020 by JustAnotherFan

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherFan said:

I'm not going any further into this. I've said my piece. If you want to ignore what other players at his position have done then by all means.  

What? I'm pointing out that he's been recognized as the best at his position since he acquired two first team all-pros. He also made PFF's All Pro team in 2012. You initially claimed that he hadn't been recognized as the best ever at his position, which just isn't true. Pointing that Atkins has been recognized in that manner isn't demeaning other players at his position. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by TecmoSuperJoe

[JAF-N72EX]

9 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

What? I'm pointing out that he's been recognized as the best at his position since he acquired two first team all-pros. He also made PFF's All Pro team in 2012. You initially claimed that he hadn't been recognized as the best ever at his position, which just isn't true. Pointing that Atkins has been recognized in that manner isn't demeaning other players at his position. 

So you believe Atkins season was better than Watt's in 2012 and 2013? If so, get the hell out of here with that noise.  

Let me be even more clear. The All-pro selection for the defensive lines have changed over the years. They used to actually atleast acknowledge the difference between a player who plays as a DE and DT/NT in 4-3 defense vs another who plays DE/NT in 3-4 and they would separate them for obvious reasons. The blindside defense used to be the most important part of any defense.

But all of that changed as the game has evolved when on teams started to use more hybrids fronts and moving DL players around in different positions, and so the easiest way for them to vote equally was to compile ALL defensive fronts into one bubble, regardless of them playing in a 3-4 or 4-3 defense.  And I hope I don't need to tell you how much different those two positions are. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

16 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

So you believe Atkins season was better than Watt's in 2012 and 2013? If so, get the hell out of here with that noise.  

Let me be even more clear. The All-pro selection for the defensive lines have changed over the years. They used to actually atleast acknowledge the difference between a player who plays as a DE and DT/NT in 4-3 defense vs another who plays DE/NT in 3-4 and they would separate them for obvious reasons. The blindside defense used to be the most important part of any defense.

But all of that changed as the game has evolved when on teams started to use more hybrids fronts and moving DL players around in different positions, and so the easiest way for them to vote equally was to compile ALL defensive fronts into one bubble, regardless of them playing in a 3-4 or 4-3 defense.  And I hope I don't need to tell you how much different those two positions are. 

Huh? Oh so you're not done talking like you said you were. K.

I said he's been recognized as arguably the best by a consensus. Watt and Atkins made first team All Pro in 2012, and Atkins was PFF's highest graded defensive tackle as in the quality he showcased on the inside. Watt is moved around more, which PFF takes into account. Up to that point he had their highest grade ever for a DT. Even if you wanted to dismiss the AP All Pro team as fluff from media people, PFF does metric grade on ever snap, compare/contrast, and peer review. They aren't just blowing smoke. Both players made their squad that year, and means Atkins was recognized as arguably the best in the league even if he wasn't for you. That's what these accolades mean, fair or not. If it's all phantom noise, that's irrelevant. He has the recognition. Even so, there are HOF players that never even made first team all pro like Warren Moon and Troy Aikman, yet they're in. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by TecmoSuperJoe

[JAF-N72EX]

Just now, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Huh? Oh so you're not done talking like you said you were. K.

I said he's been recognized as arguably the best by a consensus. Watt and Atkins made first team All Pro in 2012, and Atkins was PFF's highest graded INTERIOR lineman as in the quality he showcased on the inside. Even if you wanted to dismiss the AP All Pro team as fluff from media people, PFF does metric grade. They aren't just blowing smoke. Both players made their squad that year, and means Atkins was recognized as arguably the best even if he wasn't for you. That's what these accolades mean. Even so, there are HOF players that never even made first team all pro like Warren Moon and Troy Aikman, yet they're in. 

No, I'm calling you on your BS, that's why I'm not done talking. 

PFF is a joke and I have talked extensively about WHY on this site, many of times, but people like you still fall for their shill, so the PFF BS IS blowing smoke. 

[JAF-N72EX]

Believe what you want though. Like I said.