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RandyMossIsBoss

NFLN Top 100 Players of 2020

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12 hours ago, Archimedes said:

I 100% don’t care what they did in college. Like, at all.

 

Lamar didn’t lead “subpar talent to incredible heights”. He led a team with a top 5 defense, 5 other pro-bowlers on offense with one being an all-pro, and a SB winning coach to a 14-2 record and one and done in the playoffs. He had a great individual RS and won a deserving MVP while playing on a loaded team, and then flamed out in the playoffs. What season were you watching last year?

You don't care about what they did in college because it doesn't favor your guy.  If Mahomes had Texas Tech in the playoff discussion while Lamar never improved Louisville that much you would definitely use it.

Lamar Jackson made those other guys on the Ravens better just like he took a mediocre Louisville program in college and made them look like they were juggernauts. 

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6 hours ago, Nightime said:

Lamar had a better college record because his defense didn’t give up 44 points a game. Both led their college offenses to 42ppg+, but Lamar never had a defense that allowed more than 27ppg. Even in college, Lamar had the better defense 

I don't think you understand my point there.  I'm not comparing the raw results of Lamar and Mahomes college careers.  But rather the relative results.  It doesn't matter how many points Louisville's defense gave up in relation to Texas Tech.  Why?  Because Texas Tech had a history of bad defenses and great offenses.  If Mahomes was as transformative as Lamar, he would have averaged 60ppg with Texas Tech.  He would have elevated them to heights we haven't seen before. 

Before Lamar, Louisville was not an offensive juggernaut.  He made them that with his talent.  Just as he's done in the NFL.  My argument here is to show Lamar's ability to totally transform those around him while Mahomes only slightly elevates those around him.

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14 minutes ago, VanS said:

I don't think you understand my point there.  I'm not comparing the raw results of Lamar and Mahomes college careers.  But rather the relative results.  It doesn't matter how many points Louisville's defense gave up in relation to Texas Tech.  Why?  Because Texas Tech had a history of bad defenses and great offenses.  If Mahomes was as transformative as Lamar, he would have averaged 60ppg with Texas Tech.  He would have elevated them to heights we haven't seen before. 

Before Lamar, Louisville was not an offensive juggernaut.  He made them that with his talent.  Just as he's done in the NFL.  My argument here is to show Lamar's ability to totally transform those around him while Mahomes only slightly elevates those around him.

The bolded is definitely over exaggerating.  

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1 hour ago, wackywabbit said:

Eh... levels and ratings are and will be more transient than that. Mahomes level is the level Mahomes plays at. Lamar was the best player in football over the span regular season, and it was a historically great season. It's highly doubtful Mahomes would have been if he didn't get hurt week 7. Only a few offenses have ever average over 3 points per drive like Ravens did with Lamar. Brady is the only QB who did it twice. Mahomes did it in 18. I think Mahomes can do it again, but I would bet heavily against it being anything close to an every year thing. Long winded way of saying, Lamar was playing at a level that is comparable to best seasons for the best QBs ever, so he played at Mahomes level last year.

Ravens averaged 3.09 points per drive. KC had 3.25. That’s a quite a notable difference. So not really. Lamar played at a exceptionally high level last year but it wasn’t quite Mahomes level. Even with Lamars combined rushing and passing it still doesnt hold up to Mahomes.

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31 minutes ago, VanS said:

I don't think you understand my point there.  I'm not comparing the raw results of Lamar and Mahomes college careers.  But rather the relative results.  It doesn't matter how many points Louisville's defense gave up in relation to Texas Tech.  Why?  Because Texas Tech had a history of bad defenses and great offenses.  If Mahomes was as transformative as Lamar, he would have averaged 60ppg with Texas Tech.  He would have elevated them to heights we haven't seen before. 

Before Lamar, Louisville was not an offensive juggernaut.  He made them that with his talent.  Just as he's done in the NFL.  My argument here is to show Lamar's ability to totally transform those around him while Mahomes only slightly elevates those around him.

Before Mahomes, Tech never allowed over 39 points a game in a season. He dealt with the least talented and worst coached Tech defenses in school history.

Louisville actually does have a history of good offenses. They had a top 5 offense in 2006.

 

Both Mahomes and Jackson faced LSU in bowl games. In 2015, Mahomes posted 28/50, 370 yards, 4TD and 1 INT in a 27-56 loss to 9-3 LSU. Jackson was 10/27, 137 yards, 0 TD/INT in a 9-29 loss to 8-4 LSU, during his Heisman campaign. 

This doesn’t even mention Mahomes record 819 yard game vs. Oklahoma, a game he played with a sprained throwing shoulder and broken wrist. He was hurting
 

Its no surprise that once surrounded by solid receivers and a legitimate defense, Mahomes won a Super Bowl. 

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1 hour ago, VanS said:

Never said the offense carried them.  I said Josh Allen was the most important reason for their success because I doubt there are 5 other QBs who could have done as much as he did with that offense given the lack of talent Buffalo had on that side of the ball.

I'm saying Josh Allen did the most with the least.  And if he didn't do what he did with that terrible supporting cast then the Bills go 6-10 instead of 10-6.  

Yeah, proven wrong, considering the massive discrepancy in how the defense outperformed the offense. The pathetic attempt at transferring credit to Allen by saying he gave the defense rest (less than league average) was noted.

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37 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Ravens averaged 3.09 points per drive. KC had 3.25. That’s a quite a notable difference. So not really. Lamar played at a exceptionally high level last year but it wasn’t quite Mahomes level. Even with Lamars combined rushing and passing it still doesnt hold up to Mahomes.

Ok. I could deep dive and probably pull up numbers that say the 19 Ravens played a stronger defensive slate and/or spent more drives resting, but that isn't the point I want to make. Mahomes 18 may have been better than Jackson's 19. There were certainly different kinds of seasons. Apart from that...

3.25 or 3.09. I don't think EITHER Mahomes or Lamar will be close to regularly putting up offenses like that. Your statement that Lamar didn't play at Mahomes level last year doesn't make sense because Mahomes didn't play at your mythical Mahomes level.

The perception of Mahomes now is where Aaron Rodgers was in 2011. That was the one time Rodgers broke the 3 PPD barrier and he was coming off a great SB run. It makes no sense in hindsight to call that Rodgers level, does it?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

Ravens averaged 3.09 points per drive. KC had 3.25. That’s a quite a notable difference. So not really. Lamar played at a exceptionally high level last year but it wasn’t quite Mahomes level. Even with Lamars combined rushing and passing it still doesnt hold up to Mahomes.

Now factor in coaching and supporting cast. 

EDIT: Also factor in that Lamar rested for 5 4th quarters and sat out week 17. Lamar missed 2.25 games worth of stats because he was so dominant. Meanwhile Mahomes was only benched for Henne once in 2018. 

Edited by AngusMcFife

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1 hour ago, samsel23 said:

The bolded is definitely over exaggerating.  

KC's offense was 4th best in the league in 2017, and that was before they added Sammy Watkins in 2018 with Mahomes. 

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16 hours ago, Archimedes said:

You want to talk about what the Chiefs did when Mahomes was out? Can I bring up the last game of the season what the Ravens when Lamar sat? I’m sure you’ll have some reason for why that doesn’t count either. See, I’m not insecure enough to try to downplay how good the Chiefs supporting cast and coach are to boost Mahomes. We have a great coach and team around him. Lamar has the same thing in Baltimore.

Robert Griffin, week 17 vs Pitt:

11/21
81 net passing yards
0/1 TD/INT

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1 hour ago, wackywabbit said:

Ok. I could deep dive and probably pull up numbers that say the 19 Ravens played a stronger defensive slate and/or spent more drives resting, but that isn't the point I want to make. Mahomes 18 may have been better than Jackson's 19. There were certainly different kinds of seasons. Apart from that...

3.25 or 3.09. I don't think EITHER Mahomes or Lamar will be close to regularly putting up offenses like that. Your statement that Lamar didn't play at Mahomes level last year doesn't make sense because Mahomes didn't play at your mythical Mahomes level.

The perception of Mahomes now is where Aaron Rodgers was in 2011. That was the one time Rodgers broke the 3 PPD barrier and he was coming off a great SB run. It makes no sense in hindsight to call that Rodgers level, does it?

KC averaged 2.89 points per drive with Mahomes last year, even with the injury. It was the time with Moore that dropped it to a 2.70. So not quite 3+, but damn close. Mahomes might be closer to that season to season than you think.

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The idea that Lamar has benefitted from great offensive coaching is hilarious to me. 

In Harbaugh's entire Ravens career as HC prior to 2019, how many top-8 offenses has he coached (using DVOA)? 

0. Zero. Never had an offense in the top quarter of the league in 11 years of coaching. 

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3 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

KC averaged 2.89 points per drive with Mahomes last year, even with the injury. It was the time with Moore that dropped it to a 2.70. So not quite 3+, but damn close. Mahomes might be closer to that season to season than you think.

Lamar rested for 5 fourth quarters and took off the week 17 game. 

So Lamar missed 2.25 games, and Mahomes missed 2.5 games in 2019. Not a big difference. 

I'd rather have the guy who misses time because he's blowing the other team out than the guy with the balky knee. 

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