NFLN Top 100 Players of 2020

[Everybodyluvstheniners]

George KITTLE  baby

[VanS]

17 hours ago, ET80 said:

...he literally thinks he was wrong only once. With Cortland Sutton.

I'm just a huge fan of Courtland Sutton so missing on him pisses me off.  Especially when I liked him a lot the first time I saw his highlights but then overthought his evaluation over time.

It was a good lesson for me cause it taught me to trust my initial reaction to a prospect from now on rather than waffling back and forth the more tape I watch.

Same thing with Darius Leonard which is why I also mentioned him.  Typically the players I miss on that bother me the most are the ones I liked at one point but convinced myself to not like later on. 

[VanS]

22 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

It’s his favorite example. And in case you weren’t already questioning it’s legitimacy, he throws in the “and it only took a couple preseason snaps” to really hammer it home. I for one appreciate that commitment.

I rate players based on the eye test so I can tell pretty quickly when I've missed on a player.   I didn't even need to see Courtland catch a ball.  I could tell just from how he moved on the field that first preseason game he would be a baller. 

[VanS]

22 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

So let’s clarify: you’re saying the end of Josh’s career is when we can determine whether or not the defense led the 2019 Bills to the playoffs? That we can’t look at a single season and assign any value until (which you have done) the end of everyone’s careers...?

EDIT: So when asked for evidence of your claim, you say the future will prove you right. If only the future will prove you right, that’s essentially saying you have nothing to contribute right now other than crystal ball tellings...

We won't need to wait very long.  I have a suspicion 2020 will be a pretty good year for Josh Allen.  I only said over a career because that is the largest and thus most accurate sample size possible.  However, every year adds to the case.  

22 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Question for you: you inaccurately tried to portray Allen as a QB that did a good job giving the defense rest and converting third downs, thus allowed the defense to be the elite unit that it is. Wouldn’t it make sense that an elite defensive unit allows the QB to play better? So wouldn’t that help Allen out, knowing he didn’t have to take unnecessary risks? Didn’t have to score tons of points every game? Didn’t have to win the game on his own? 

Yes the defense helped him out.  I took that into account.  I just thought the personnel around him on offense was piss poor.  I don't think much of Devin Singletary.  He's one of the worst starters at his position in the league.  Same with John Brown and Cole Beasley.  How many teams have a worse set of starting WRs?  You can disagree but this is my opinion.  I thought the Bills had BY FAR the worst skill position and o-line talent of any playoff team last year.  What Josh Allen was able to do with such a weak supporting cast was impressive. 

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by VanS

[Soko]

2 hours ago, VanS said:

I rate players based on the eye test so I can tell pretty quickly when I've missed on a player.   I didn't even need to see Courtland catch a ball.  I could tell just from how he moved on the field that first preseason game he would be a baller. 

1 hour ago, VanS said:

We won't need to wait very long.  I have a suspicion 2020 will be a pretty good year for Josh Allen.  I only said over a career because that is the largest and thus most accurate sample size possible.  However, every year adds to the case.  

Let’s re-phrase: so you’re saying we can’t assign credit to the contributors for the Bills playoff run of the 2019-2020 season (which you have done) until the end of the 2020-2021 season? And since your response to asking for evidence of your opinion is “we’ll see next year”, you’re essentially proving that there’s nothing you can use for your argument as of today other than future predictions? Gotcha.

Quote

Yes the defense helped him out.  I took that into account.  I just thought the personnel around him on offense was piss poor.  I don't think much of Devin Singletary.  He's one of the worst starters at his position in the league.  Same with John Brown and Cole Beasley.  How many teams have a worse set of starting WRs?  You can disagree but this is my opinion.  I thought the Bills had BY FAR the worst skill position and o-line talent of any playoff team last year.  What Josh Allen was able to do with such a weak supporting cast was impressive. 

The Patriots ended the year with worse offensive skill positions (Michel, Edelman, Harry, Dorsett, Meyers, Olszweski). The Jets and Phins very debatably. Last year’s Cardinals. Raiders had pretty comparable receivers. And since you hypocritically cut out thing you didn’t want to answer, allow me to post them again: 

How is Devin Singletary poor? In what ways do you think Daboll is poor, specifically? How do you PROVE that one player is performing better than another player would in a similar situation (you know, with reason - not just the eye test/“that’s my opinion” weak answer)? 

EDIT: Hear that @ET80? Admits to being wrong on Leonard/Sutton, but actually really liked them a lot and overthought it. But that’s two on the ledger.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Yin-Yang

[ET80]

3 hours ago, VanS said:

I'm just a huge fan of Courtland Sutton so missing on him pisses me off.  Especially when I liked him a lot the first time I saw his highlights but then overthought his evaluation over time.

It was a good lesson for me cause it taught me to trust my initial reaction to a prospect from now on rather than waffling back and forth the more tape I watch.

Same thing with Darius Leonard which is why I also mentioned him.  Typically the players I miss on that bother me the most are the ones I liked at one point but convinced myself to not like later on. 

 

On 8/4/2020 at 5:40 PM, ET80 said:

The mental gymnastics here is astounding. 

 

[ET80]

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

Let’s re-phrase: so you’re saying we can’t assign credit to the contributors for the Bills playoff run of the 2019-2020 season (which you have done) until the end of the 2020-2021 season? And since your response to asking for evidence of your opinion is “we’ll see next year”, you’re essentially proving that there’s nothing you can use for your argument as of today other than future predictions? Gotcha.

The Patriots ended the year with worse offensive skill positions (Michel, Edelman, Harry, Dorsett, Meyers, Olszweski). The Jets and Phins very debatably. Last year’s Cardinals. Raiders had pretty comparable receivers. And since you hypocritically cut out thing you didn’t want to answer, allow me to post them again: 

How is Devin Singletary poor? In what ways do you think Daboll is poor, specifically? How do you PROVE that one player is performing better than another player would in a similar situation (you know, with reason - not just the eye test/“that’s my opinion” weak answer)? 

[ET80]

7 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

EDIT: Hear that @ET80? Admits to being wrong on Leonard/Sutton, but actually really liked them a lot and overthought it. But that’s two on the ledger.

Remember that time he said Antonio Callaway was a good person and a future superstar at WR? 

Or how about that time he said that Alvin Kamara was better than Christian McCaffrey at - and I quote - everything?

I'm sure he wasn't wrong on those... 😅

[Soko]

4 hours ago, ET80 said:

Remember that time he said Antonio Callaway was a good person and a future superstar at WR? 

Or how about that time he said that Alvin Kamara was better than Christian McCaffrey at - and I quote - everything?

I'm sure he wasn't wrong on those... 😅

I’d be willing to bet he still believes the latter 

[ET80]

10 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

I’d be willing to bet he still believes the latter 

He absolutely does, and will probably do a mental 180 Axel to convince us that Kamara was working as a bigger centerpiece of the Saints offense...

[VanS]

12 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Let’s re-phrase: so you’re saying we can’t assign credit to the contributors for the Bills playoff run of the 2019-2020 season (which you have done) until the end of the 2020-2021 season? And since your response to asking for evidence of your opinion is “we’ll see next year”, you’re essentially proving that there’s nothing you can use for your argument as of today other than future predictions? Gotcha.

The Patriots ended the year with worse offensive skill positions (Michel, Edelman, Harry, Dorsett, Meyers, Olszweski). The Jets and Phins very debatably. Last year’s Cardinals. Raiders had pretty comparable receivers. And since you hypocritically cut out thing you didn’t want to answer, allow me to post them again: 

How is Devin Singletary poor? In what ways do you think Daboll is poor, specifically? How do you PROVE that one player is performing better than another player would in a similar situation (you know, with reason - not just the eye test/“that’s my opinion” weak answer)? 

EDIT: Hear that @ET80? Admits to being wrong on Leonard/Sutton, but actually really liked them a lot and overthought it. But that’s two on the ledger.

1.  No.  You can assign credit now for the past season.  I know I have.  I believe its Josh Allen.  All I'm saying with regard to the increasing time scale in terms of sample size is it'll confirm to me whether my assesment was right or wrong.  If Josh Allen becomes the dominant player I suspect he will become over the next couple of years as the talent around him improves then I will take that as confirmation that my assesment of him carrying that team on his back in 2019 was correct.  If he doesn't improve and remains a mediocre player production wise despite the increase in talent around him then I will be wrong in my assesment that he was carrying that franchise on his back and you would be right that he was just an average QB being carried by a supporting cast that I misevaluated.

2. Disagree on the Patriots.  Michel and Edelman are better than any Bills skill position player from last year.  And they have the added benefit of a far superior offensive coordinator in Josh McDaniels.  The O.C. also makes a huge difference.  Its why I included him in all my evaluations of the talent level around Allen.  The other teams didn't make the playoffs.  I said the Bills had BY FAR the worst skill position talent of any playoff team.  If you bring non-playoff teams into the equation then they are near the bottom of the league but I do agree there might be some teams worse than them.  Disagree on the Raiders though.  I would take Josh Jacobs and Darren Waller over any skill position player on the Bills.  Disagree about the Dolphins as well.  Devante Parker was better than any WR on the Bills.  And before he got hurt Preston Williams showed he had star potential.  I'll give you the Jets.  They are as bad or even worse than the Bills.  Its why I haven't given up on Sam Darnold and believe he still has the potential to be a Pro Bowl caliber QB.

3. I watch Devin Singletary play and am not impressed.  He doesn't have a single trait I consider above average.  He's the definition of average to below average at everything.  Its really that simple.  I watch players and evaluate them based on their skill set.  With regard to Daboll I see very little in the way of creativity to get his players easy completitions.  The best offensive coordinators make the game easier for their QB with gimme completions due to scheme.  Bills have very few in the way of gimme completions.  Most of their completions come from their players having to out talent the opposition.  Hence the lack of success by the Bills offense last year when looking at objective measures.

3.  LOL @ how much you keep catching feelings about what I post.  Once again Sutton and Leonard are the first names that come to mind because I did like them initially.  If you want a guy who I never liked but has been better than I anticipated then look at Calvin Ridley.  He's no star but has been pretty good for the Falcons and I thought he would totally bust.  Then we have Michael Thomas.  He came out before I started posting on here and I thought the best WR from the 2016 was Sterling Shepard and Michael Thomas was an average player at best.  He's been way better despite the fact that I disagree with folks who think he's in the conversation dor best WR in the league.  I thought in 2014 DeVante Parker was the best WR with AJ Green potential.  He's more or less been a bust till this year.  And so on.  WR has been one of my weaker positions BTW which is why these names also come to mind quickly if you are wondering.  I would need to go back through the draft classes if you want even more misses from other position groups. 

[Soko]

7 minutes ago, ET80 said:

He absolutely does, and will probably do a mental 180 Axel to convince us that Kamara was working as a bigger centerpiece of the Saints offense...

No, the supporting cast thing only applies when it’s convenient. 

I’m going to guess it’s just something you have to see via the eye test, how much more talented Kamara is, and by end of their careers it’ll be evident.

[VanS]

4 hours ago, ET80 said:

Remember that time he said Antonio Callaway was a good person and a future superstar at WR? 

Or how about that time he said that Alvin Kamara was better than Christian McCaffrey at - and I quote - everything?

I'm sure he wasn't wrong on those... 😅

1. Having a depedancy issue with regard to weed doesn't make you a bad person.  And before the suspensions he had a pretty good rookie season.  I still stand by my assesment of Callaway's talent.  I just wish he could defeat his addiction to weed.

2. Kamara is better than McCaffrey at everything.  An injury plagued 3rd season doesn't change anything.  We'll see how much longer McCaffrey can last given the fact he has way more miles on him than Kamara does both in college and the pros.  I like Kamara's potential for a longer than normal career as a RB given how little mileage he has on him at 25 years of age.  FTR, I also had McCaffrey rated as a superstar back from the 2017 draft.  Kamara, Conner, Mixon, and McCaffrey were the RBs I pegged as Pro-Bowl/ All-Pro caliber talents.  So in the end McCaffrey's success is pretty much what I expected.  

[ET80]

3 minutes ago, VanS said:

Having a depedancy issue with regard to weed doesn't make you a bad person

Running credit card scams, on the other hand...

3 minutes ago, VanS said:

Kamara is better than McCaffrey at everything

 

On 8/4/2020 at 5:40 PM, ET80 said:

The mental gymnastics here is astounding. 

 

[VanS]

11 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

No, the supporting cast thing only applies when it’s convenient. 

I’m going to guess it’s just something you have to see via the eye test, how much more talented Kamara is, and by end of their careers it’ll be evident.

Kamara's first 2 years combined were better than McCaffrey first 2 years combined.   Hence the fact he had 2 Pro Bowl and 1 All-Pro selection compared to zero for McCaffrey.  This past year McCaffrey was clearly better.  I wouldn't deny that.  But its obvious injuries had Kamara looking like a shell of himself.  Compare the level of explosiveness Kamara had in the opener against the Texans (when he had a monster game) to the end of the year and you could tell the ankle and leg injuries had him looking like a shell of his former self.

Fully healthy I will take Alvin Kamara over any other RB in the league not named Saquon Barkley.