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RandyMossIsBoss

NFLN Top 100 Players of 2020

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4 minutes ago, VanS said:

What happened to them outside Buffalo is irrelevant.  Those teams have different o-lines, run schemes, and surrounding players.  To many variables to draw any one to one correlation.  I already made this point but I guess I need to make it again so you understand.  The only way to truly tell how much of a difference Allen makes in the run is for him to miss games and to see what happens to the Bills run game with another QB taking snaps.  The difference we see in the run game without Allen as the QB but everything else staying the same (i.e. o-line, playclling, and RBs) will tell us how much impact he makes.  Allen didn't miss significant time last year so we don't have this reference point.  This is the final time I will be making this point.  Don't expect me to keep repeating myself as you like saying the same thing over and over again.

If you’re saying we can’t tell, then how’re you going to say Allen helped Singletary? You can’t have it both ways. Based on the evidence we have, which you may or may not agree is enough but it’s all there is, Allen hasn’t done jack to help the run.

Keep throwing out whatever you don’t like, though. So much for “using all the information”.

4 minutes ago, VanS said:

I don't have the time or interest to get into some long debate with you about the Patriots running scheme over the last 20 years.  I'm simply making the point about New England that everyone knows.  The fact that the Patriots have a way of getting the best out of players during their stay with New England compared to when they play for other teams.  Its not just RBs but every position more or less.  Are there years the Patriots run scheme is weak?  Sure.  Just like they struggle some years on defense.  Or the pass game.  Or along the offensive line.  And so on.  But through the last 20 years they have been the most dominant organization in the NFL because they have been able to get more out of players while they play for New England than we see from those players when they are elsewhere.  I give Belichick and his system credit for that.

Lol. I don’t watch every game every year but I watch all of NE. Bill deserves credit for, generally, getting what’s good out of players but the fact that you’re trying to use the Pats’ “running scheme” as a base is hilarious. Won’t even ask you to elaborate because you absolutely can’t and will just shake it off as “idc to explain”. 

How can you be informative without proof? 

4 minutes ago, VanS said:

McCoy, Ivory, and Gore were all aging RBs.  I brought up Moss cause he's young and a high draft pick like Singletary.  He will be a far better comparison point in trying to determine just how good Singletary is.  I actually like Moss as a talent.  He was in my top 5 RBs for the 2020 draft.  So for my own evaluation purposes he will provide a good comparison point to Singletary.  If he outperforms Singletary next year and becomes the lead back then I will use that as confirmation that Singletary was the mediocre RB I thought he was.  If he outperfoms Moss then he will be better than I thought.  If both split the carries and neither is much better than the other then I'm either wrong about how good Moss is or how bad Singletary is.

In order for that experiment to work, there has to be a constant. You’re pretending Moss is the constant, which he isn’t. It’s possible both he and Singletary are good players, it’s possible they’re both going to be trash, and all other combos. But using Moss as a measure against Singletary assumes that Moss is a constant, which he isn’t. 

4 minutes ago, VanS said:

Once again what McCoy and Gore did outside Buffalo is irrelevant.  To many variables to consider when guys go to different teams.  Just look at Kansas City.  They are one of the most explosive offenses in NFL history.  Obviously McCoy will see more success playing there than in Buffalo whose offense lacks talent across the board.   Gore played for Miami last year and is a year older.  Its possible he might have finally fallen off that cliff last year.  Only so long a guy can play RB in the NFL.

“I use all information available”

”What they did outside Buffalo is irrelevant” 

Lol.

4 minutes ago, VanS said:

First of all, your point about Randy Moss makes no sense.  Everyone knows WR is a dependant position.  Nobody puts stock in a WR struggling with poor QB play (as was the case for Randy in Oakland when he was still in his prime) against him.  WRs are judged more on their pure talent and impact on the game when they have an adequate QB who can get them the ball.  There's a reason no WR has ever won league MVP.  They are simply not as valuable to a team's success as a QB or RB because of the dependant nature of the position.

Lol. Pick any veteran QB or RB in their final years then. Focusing on the position is totally missing the point, but I’m not going down that route because I don’t want to stray too far off the topic of Josh Allen being a passenger on the Bills playoff train.

4 minutes ago, VanS said:

With regard to Allen and the Bills, why do you think I brought up the 2001 Patriots?  At that time most thought Brady was just a game manager being carried by his defense who made clutch plays every now and then.  Nobody thought he was an elite QB on the same level as say Peyton Manning.  Just because the gap between the Bills defense and offense is massive now in comparison to the gap between Belichick and Brady now doesn't mean that was always the case for Brady and Belichick.  Early in the Patriots dynasty there was a similar gap in terms of Brady and Belichick.  Brady was not always viewed as elite.  It took years before he was even in the conversation for best QB in the NFL let alone the GOAT.

Brady’s rise to stardom doesn’t mean he was the driving force in 2001. It was the defense, Brady was an insanely clutch game manager. 

4 minutes ago, VanS said:

Actually I use every piece of information available.  Even stats.  I just don't put as much weight on it as I do the eye test.  You place a large amount if weight on stats.  I place very little.  Most of what I focus on when evaluating players comes from simply watching them.

Your eye test: Josh Allen did a good job converting firsts and giving the defense rest. 

Stats: Bills were a bottom 10 offense in TOP, 3D%, first downs. points, points per drive, etc. 

Seems to be a disconnect there. 

4 minutes ago, VanS said:

Every piece of information matters.  That doesn't mean they all get equal weight.  I believe that if you watch a player's tape closely enough you get way more information about how good they are than you would looking at stats.  The stats become superfluous in that case.  Stats are only useful if you never watch a player.  Similar to how a box score after watching the game is superfluous but if you never watch the game is informative.  

Stats seem pretty relevant if they 100% contradict what you see. 

For instance, if I said the Bills were led by an elite playmaker that did a great job converting downs, but they were in fact bad at converting downs - well my eye test must be wrong then. 

4 minutes ago, VanS said:

If you wanna celebrate one hit wonders go right ahead.  I don't care for it.  I try to identify and focus on players who are actually great.  And greatness shows itself over a sustained period of time.  One good year in a career is meaningless. 

“Greatness shows itself over a sustained period of time”

”I knew that guy was great after watching a handful of preseason snaps” 

We are laughing.

4 minutes ago, VanS said:

You can jump from season to season proclaiming players to be suddenly great or bad if you like. 

False, again showing you aren’t understanding.

A player can have a great year or play great in a single season, but not be a great player. That’s the discrepancy. Again, see Peyton Hillis. He undoubtedly had a great year in 2010, but was not a great player.

4 minutes ago, VanS said:

I try to keep my views on players consistent.  Its why I didn't change my tune on Baker Mayfield even after he had a stellar rookie season in 2018.  I continued to say that he was not worthy of being a first round pick.  A year later in 2019 he has a bad year and my take on him doesn't sound so radical.  Time will ultimately tell us how good or bad Mayfield is.  I just don't think there is much value in jumping to conclusions every year on a player.  I have a central theory which I use to evaluate players.  And I stick to those evaluations until a sufficient body of work presents itself that causes me to change my views.  One single season isn't sufficient to me when it comes to changing my view on how good or bad a player is. 

Let’s stay on topic and wrap it up, I don’t want to delve into 7 discussions about the Patriots, Baker Mayfield, and wide receivers.

I think it’s safe to say that - while opinions on their own aren’t necessarily worthless - an opinion that has zero backing doesn’t hold water. So if you’re trying to inform us as you say, do you have anything of substance to bring to the table that says Josh Allen was the leading force of that playoff run? Predictions, eye tests, that stuff is all nice but really anybody can have those and be just as right unless they have something to back it up with. Can’t be informative without any information, you know. So is there anything you can bring to enlighten someone such as myself regarding LAST YEAR’s playoff run of the Bills? Preferably something that isn’t directly contradicted by facts, like some silly comment on their drive efficiency.

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2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

If you’re saying we can’t tell, then how’re you going to say Allen helped Singletary? You can’t have it both ways. Based on the evidence we have, which you may or may not agree is enough but it’s all there is, Allen hasn’t done jack to help the run.

Keep throwing out whatever you don’t like, though. So much for “using all the information”.

Lol. I don’t watch every game every year but I watch all of NE. Bill deserves credit for, generally, getting what’s good out of players but the fact that you’re trying to use the Pats’ “running scheme” as a base is hilarious. Won’t even ask you to elaborate because you absolutely can’t and will just shake it off as “idc to explain”. 

How can you be informative without proof? 

In order for that experiment to work, there has to be a constant. You’re pretending Moss is the constant, which he isn’t. It’s possible both he and Singletary are good players, it’s possible they’re both going to be trash, and all other combos. But using Moss as a measure against Singletary assumes that Moss is a constant, which he isn’t. 

“I use all information available”

”What they did outside Buffalo is irrelevant” 

Lol.

Lol. Pick any veteran QB or RB in their final years then. Focusing on the position is totally missing the point, but I’m not going down that route because I don’t want to stray too far off the topic of Josh Allen being a passenger on the Bills playoff train.

Brady’s rise to stardom doesn’t mean he was the driving force in 2001. It was the defense, Brady was an insanely clutch game manager. 

Your eye test: Josh Allen did a good job converting firsts and giving the defense rest. 

Stats: Bills were a bottom 10 offense in TOP, 3D%, first downs. points, points per drive, etc. 

Seems to be a disconnect there. 

Stats seem pretty relevant if they 100% contradict what you see. 

For instance, if I said the Bills were led by an elite playmaker that did a great job converting downs, but they were in fact bad at converting downs - well my eye test must be wrong then. 

“Greatness shows itself over a sustained period of time”

”I knew that guy was great after watching a handful of preseason snaps” 

We are laughing.

False, again showing you aren’t understanding.

A player can have a great year or play great in a single season, but not be a great player. That’s the discrepancy. Again, see Peyton Hillis. He undoubtedly had a great year in 2010, but was not a great player.

Let’s stay on topic and wrap it up, I don’t want to delve into 7 discussions about the Patriots, Baker Mayfield, and wide receivers.

I think it’s safe to say that - while opinions on their own aren’t necessarily worthless - an opinion that has zero backing doesn’t hold water. So if you’re trying to inform us as you say, do you have anything of substance to bring to the table that says Josh Allen was the leading force of that playoff run? Predictions, eye tests, that stuff is all nice but really anybody can have those and be just as right unless they have something to back it up with. Can’t be informative without any information, you know. So is there anything you can bring to enlighten someone such as myself regarding LAST YEAR’s playoff run of the Bills? Preferably something that isn’t directly contradicted by facts, like some silly comment on their drive efficiency.

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