Your Personal Scouting Overlook

[CalhounLambeau]

On 10/8/2017 at 12:57 PM, NateDawg said:

Length of shins?  Length of legs in relation to overall height? 

This thread can’t be real life.

Body type is part of scouting and scouts noting players as having high-cut builds has been in scouting decades.

I'm sure it sounds strange to people who aren't familiar with it.

But it is important.

[Scout]

15 minutes ago, CalhounLambeau said:

Body type is part of scouting and scouts noting players as having high-cut builds has been in scouting decades.

I'm sure it sounds strange to people who aren't familiar with it.

But it is important.

Body type is the second line in every scouting report I've ever read. 

[BrownLeader]

Generally, I tend to overvalue toughness at all positions.

More specifically..

Derek Carr....I completely undervalued the importance of his knowledge of NFL schemes/concepts that he learned watching his brother.

Khalil Mack....I never really considered he'd be a full time DE at that size. I was scouting him as a hybrid or ILB.

 

[Scoundrel]

I can't scout QBs... so

[Iamcanadian]

On 10/7/2017 at 4:39 PM, DraftHobbyist said:

One thing I learned from experience was that deep passes for QB's are some of the least impressive throws. Unless they are on a line, deep passes really tell you almost nothing about a QB. The intermediate passes tell you the most, but I would even value short passes above deep passes because at least then you can look at ball placement. That was probably my biggest rookie mistake the first year I graded.

Another one I learned the hard way is that athleticism doesn't matter as much for RB's. Whether the RB can make the first guy miss or not is the most important. Patience, vision, power, open field moves, those things are important. But are you really upset if a RB gets caught after a 40 yard gain because it's not a TD? I mean, sure, if he can take it to the house that is a benefit so it's not meaningless, but that's not what makes a RB good or bad. Lateral quickness matters much more, too, and that doesn't always show up in the times.

When judging a RB, the first thing I look for is lateral quickness, how fast can he change direction without losing speed. I have found over the years that without this ability, a RB has little chance to succeed at the next level.

With QB's, I rely on pro scouts to tell me about their arm strength, just too hard to judge on film or TV. Once I know about their arm strength, I look for pocket presence, do they have jittery feet facing a pass rush and I look for toughness and whether they can sense a pass rush or do they hold the ball too long. Generally, I am not concerned about ball placement at all, many QB prospects play on teams that cannot give them a lot of time to set up and find their receivers, so how can they deliver a perfect ball. One of the main features I examine, is the success rate of their HC at producing pro QB's. I don't mind system QB's as long as that HC hasn't shown in the past that he uses his system to hide the QB's weaknesses, a la Leach at Washington St.

WR's - The first thing I look for is, are they hand catchers or do they use their body to help receive a pass. If they are body catchers, I write them off completely, because they cannot succeed at the next level. Of course you want to know their speed, but the Combine tells me that. Next I look for their quickness in and out of their breaks, if they have that type of quickness, then I feel confident that they can handle press coverage, something you see little of at the college level. After the catch running ability is just a bonus, but it is not necessary for pro success. The last thing which I really look for, is their ability to catch a ball over their shoulders and I usually have to rely on Senior bowl practices and the Combine to make that call.

[Hunter2_1]

QBs: Look at intelligence. Things like spotting a blitz and changing up, motioning to suss out the coverage, hard counts. Stuff that NFL pros do, that some college QBs sufficiently lack. Would rule a QB out that didn't display NFL-like intelligence.

I think things like shin length, bench press etc is laughable. 

[CalhounLambeau]

4 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

I think things like shin length is laughable. 

When you don't know anything about it or pay no attention to it I'm sure its easy to laugh. Players who carry the ball and make cuts who have high-cut builds get hurt at a much higher rate. Laugh all you want. 

[Hunter2_1]

13 minutes ago, CalhounLambeau said:

When you don't know anything about it or pay no attention to it I'm sure its easy to laugh. Players who carry the ball and make cuts who have high-cut builds get hurt at a much higher rate. Laugh all you want. 

I will laugh. Length of shins...Hahaha. 

No, we can't draft this absolute monster with the best production in his position, because he has lower quartile length shins. 

[CalhounLambeau]

45 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

I will laugh. Length of shins...Hahaha. 

No, we can't draft this absolute monster with the best production in his position, because he has lower quartile length shins. 

Nobody is saying that.

[Hunter2_1]

38 minutes ago, CalhounLambeau said:

Nobody is saying that.

OK. Sorry man, you know far more than me on scouting. Apologise for my outburst.

[Rich7sena]

I wanted to bring back this thread (because it's a great thread) to point out something relevant to both the Super Bowl and draft scouting. I think as a whole -- and with the advent of advanced athletic testing metrics -- we undervalue the bull rush as a fundamental move for NFL pass rushers. Last night we saw James Harrison really control the Eagles' left tackle with a bull rush, and countless NFL pass rushers use this move as a base for counters.

Edge benders will always be the premium picks, but in a draft like this one with so few pass rushers flashing elite flexibility, I think identifying the "next best thing" is an effective way to still getting value in the later rounds.

Tyquan Lewis is a guy I think the NFL will love but Draft Twitter will hate specifically because of his style of play. The Senior Bowl practices were really enlightening in showing how much the NFL values guys who can hold the point of attack and push the pocket. In the game Lewis was able to do both with consistency and flash. Further, players who have an effective bull rush and flex inside on passing downs like we saw with Brandon Graham in what ended up being a game deciding sack fumble against Tom Brady.

[jebrick]

When I look at EDGE rushers I put a lot of weight in explosiveness as measured at the combine.  That is Broad jump, Vertical jump.  When looking at the OLB in a 3-4, I will also add 3-cone drill.  While looking at tape can give some idea of the player, it is hard to gauge NFL success when the player is matches against  someone who will not be drafted.  Precombine I can only look at tape.

Tyquan Lewis is one of my favorites as well as “Ola” Adeniyi EDGE Toledo.

 

 

 

[reamer]

5 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

I wanted to bring back this thread (because it's a great thread) to point out something relevant to both the Super Bowl and draft scouting. I think as a whole -- and with the advent of advanced athletic testing metrics -- we undervalue the bull rush as a fundamental move for NFL pass rushers. Last night we saw James Harrison really control the Eagles' left tackle with a bull rush, and countless NFL pass rushers use this move as a base for counters.

Edge benders will always be the premium picks, but in a draft like this one with so few pass rushers flashing elite flexibility, I think identifying the "next best thing" is an effective way to still getting value in the later rounds.

Tyquan Lewis is a guy I think the NFL will love but Draft Twitter will hate specifically because of his style of play. The Senior Bowl practices were really enlightening in showing how much the NFL values guys who can hold the point of attack and push the pocket. In the game Lewis was able to do both with consistency and flash. Further, players who have an effective bull rush and flex inside on passing downs like we saw with Brandon Graham in what ended up being a game deciding sack fumble against Tom Brady.

 

This is a perfect description of why I've locked on to Lewis for the Patriots, actually. They desperately need someone who can push the pocket, and who can reduce inside to rush against guards, like a Brandon Graham.  Now I'm sad. I'll come back later when I can more objectively talk about the actual draft and scouting outlooks.  

[Teen Girl Squad]

More a general thing, but I think where I got in trouble, and some people still do, is that they grade in a nonsensical way, by which I mean that there are a lot of variables to consider and people try to rank each one and create a composite value as a draft grade. More and more I look to try and find the few key attributes and really down play the noise in the background. To use an example, with QBs I would overthink footwork, throwing motion etc.... and while those things are important, they are only really important in accuracy, the ability to throw the ball where you want it to go. Rodgers isn't using footwork to throw bombs on the run. In his prime Rivers was one of the best down the field (air yards) passers ever and he had a weird hitch. While it can be improved, those factors can be improved, they are ultimately just potential factors and I would scout the cause (mechanics, footwork) rather than the desired effect (pass accuracy).

I'm also not a huge "intangibles guy" mostly because I don't have real access to the players so unless there are clear reports/issues, I'm not going to guess on that.

[BleedTheClock]

I don't put much stock into player comparisons, but every time I try to come up with one, the first thing that pops into my head is "Same school, same position player." I have to really fight to avoid doing this and I don't know why my brain can't stop going right to a former same-school guy.