PJ Hall traded to Vikings

[Turnobili]

1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Praise Mike Mayock. Reggie had one A+ draft and the rest make me sick. Embarrassing to look at our draft history. 

yep. its part of why the crash and burn after 2016 was inevitable. that was a year with a lot of 1 possession wins, where the defensive strategy was to stink all game and hope mack forces a turnover to seal it.

doesnt explain offensive decline (a lot to do with OL issues, drafting kolton and moving Penn out of the spot, etc), but we needed an improved D after that year. never happened

[Frankie2Gunz]

Hall is a bum who never had the work ethic to succeed.  He was a project player from day 1 and just never panned out.

I do agree we are terribly thin at DT so I wouldn't be opposed to kicking the tires on Timmy Jernigan.  He's 27 and has had some productive seasons before he blew out his back.  If he can regain his old form he would be a steal on a one year contract and if not cut bait with not much lost.  Can't hurt....

[jimkelly02]

1 hour ago, agarcia34 said:

Hard to pin Hall on Reggie. Gruden was here for that pick. Reggie didn’t make the Hall pick. It’s easy to point the finger at him, but the finger needs to be pointed at Gruden for that pick. Cause I can’t imagine Gruden would let Reggie have any say knowing that he was gonna be gone. 

Yeah cuz Reggie never reached in the second round.

the hall pick has reggies finger prints all over it.  It wasn’t a far gone conclusion Reggie was going to be let go at that point, he was still firmly in charge.

if it had been some 6’0 QB Johnny Manzel type QB then I’d believe it was on Gruden but I doubt he was pounding the table for some 6’0 small school DT.  Not Grudens MO.

Reggie reached as always in the second round and reached every harder trying to prove to everyone how smart he was when he hit on what he thought would be his next Aaron Donald lite.  Too bad for us it turned out to be like every other Reggie pick: a bust.

[jimkelly02]

Now that Halls no longer a Raider...... I guess Mayock went full Silvio Dante on PJ Hall (aka Vito).

( +\- 1:30 in the video link)

some will remember the story and get the joke while others may not.

while we don’t know what if another team will put a waiver claim in on Hall..... we always knew what team he really played for (joke).  Maybe he’d be better suited in San Fran.

[Darbsk]

31 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Hall is a bum who never had the work ethic to succeed.  He was a project player from day 1 and just never panned out.

I do agree we are terribly thin at DT so I wouldn't be opposed to kicking the tires on Timmy Jernigan.  He's 27 and has had some productive seasons before he blew out his back.  If he can regain his old form he would be a steal on a one year contract and if not cut bait with not much lost.  Can't hurt....

I'm pretty surprised at this to be honest, I thought Hall showed real flashes of potential and could definitely penetrate and played well in patches but if he was given targets to meet like body mass or cardio and he didn't reach those then a professional organisation does this. A huge shame and a wasted opportunity for sure.

I totally agree on Jernigan, always liked his game and it translates exactly to what we need (or did translate when he was healthy), I've mentioned him before but I'd definitely bring him in for a look and also a larger NT type who could be cover for Hankins, we're desperately thin at run stopping DT now.

[agarcia34]

Again Reggie is an easy target to blame cause of his history but, once Gruden was hired. Everyone knew he was gone they stripped him of basically everything. To just blame Reggie is taking the easy way out on this

[jimkelly02]

4 hours ago, agarcia34 said:

LMFAO had people tell me on here that he was a lock to make the team.  Good riddance. Terrible pick sub par play. Great move by the Raiders. He was dead weight 

I’d say congrats you were right and I was wrong.... but since you already patted yourself on the back so heavily ill just say I was wrong.

Hall played pretty good last year in run defense, that’s why I and others believed he’d be on the team and continue to develop this year.  Plus, with Hurst and Collins being far better pass rushers then run stuffers there was a legit spot on this team for Hall to shine.  Everyone who believed this acknowledged that his coming into camp in top shape and improving his conditioning and motor would determine if he even had the chance to hit the field.   Obviously we believed in a guy who didn’t dedicate himself to being a professional... once again. 
 

I never loved the pick, in fact I hated it pretty strongly.  But after you accept the sunk cost of Hall’s draft selection there was still some promise he could at least turn out to be the run stuffing 3Tech (while Hurst was the pass rusher).   I can only guess Hal’s release happened as a result of coming into camp out of shape.  Why else would our FO put of messages pre-draft that he’s on the hot seat yet bring in no competition for his roster spot (Don’t tell me Daniel Ross is competition the guys a JAG), make comments as camp opened putting heat on Hall, Key, Hurst to step it up and be key contributors, and then cut Hall the moment he enters the building.  Only plausible explanation is he came in out of shape again and Mayock cut him (and rightfully so).

So now who do we sign to replace him?  We can’t seriously go into the season with Daniel Ross!

Hall played 551 defensive snaps last year.... that’s 53% of the snaps. For comparison sakes Hurst played 522.  We got a major hole to fill and there’s absolutely no way Daniel Ross is the answer. 
 

The only answer I can come up with is to play Collins as the 3Tech starter at DT alongside Hankins, bring in Hurst for Hankins on passing downs, and try to find someone to sign that can take some snaps at both DT spots.  However, Collins is not a great run stuffer.... in fact he’s slightly less than average. Not to mention having to play the run will wear him down versus the pass.

This is a major blow.....albeit the right choice bY Mayock and unless we sign one of the previously listed available FAs we’re going to be in trouble.

[Humble_Beast]

5 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

Again Reggie is an easy target to blame cause of his history but, once Gruden was hired. Everyone knew he was gone they stripped him of basically everything. To just blame Reggie is taking the easy way out on this

Yeah that first Gruden draft was a waste, Atleast we drafted a good LT but we wasted so many assets that year 

[drfrey13]

57 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

yep. its part of why the crash and burn after 2016 was inevitable. that was a year with a lot of 1 possession wins, where the defensive strategy was to stink all game and hope mack forces a turnover to seal it.

doesnt explain offensive decline (a lot to do with OL issues, drafting kolton and moving Penn out of the spot, etc), but we needed an improved D after that year. never happened

I had a real problem with the perception that we were a great team that year.  We were a clutch team or maybe just lucky.  We would be down by 3-4 with 4-5 minutes left and Carr would march us down the field and score with 2-3 minutes left.  I would yell at the TV every week.  It is great to get the score but Carr and Del Rio had no ability to control the clock.  Then we would put it on the D to close it out every week.  The #1 reason we won as many games as we did was a +16 in TO ratio.  If we were at 0 we would have won half the games that year if not less.  Our team was responsible for the great TO ratio but those numbers fluctuate a lot year to year.  I think Carr's entire career that is the 2nd season he has had a positive TO and the other was 2015 and we were +1.  2017 there was a 30 TO swing and we were -14.

As far as Hall was concerned he had talent and flashed but did not have the work ethic when away from the team.  Sad to see someone throwaway natural talent.  Hopefully this will be a wake-up call and he finds the motivation to be a professional.  I always had hope that he cold bulk up and be a Brandon Williams type.  He had the physical traits but not the desire apparently.  I do not like telling players they have to be a certain size unless they play a position that doe not allow a change of position with the size change.  If he put on 15 pounds and play the nose then why not.  Someone like a QB putting on weight can limit their ability to function and has very limited ability to change positions.

[agarcia34]

plot twist

Got a 7th round pick back if hes on the roster for 6 games

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by agarcia34

[jimkelly02]

14 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I had a real problem with the perception that we were a great team that year.  We were a clutch team or maybe just lucky.  We would be down by 3-4 with 4-5 minutes left and Carr would march us down the field and score with 2-3 minutes left.  I would yell at the TV every week.  It is great to get the score but Carr and Del Rio had no ability to control the clock.  Then we would put it on the D to close it out every week.  The #1 reason we won as many games as we did was a +16 in TO ratio.  If we were at 0 we would have won half the games that year if not less.  Our team was responsible for the great TO ratio but those numbers fluctuate a lot year to year.  I think Carr's entire career that is the 2nd season he has had a positive TO and the other was 2015 and we were +1.  2017 there was a 30 TO swing and we were -14.

As far as Hall was concerned he had talent and flashed but did not have the work ethic when away from the team.  Sad to see someone throwaway natural talent.  Hopefully this will be a wake-up call and he finds the motivation to be a professional.  I always had hope that he cold bulk up and be a Brandon Williams type.  He had the physical traits but not the desire apparently.  I do not like telling players they have to be a certain size unless they play a position that doe not allow a change of position with the size change.  If he put on 15 pounds and play the nose then why not.  Someone like a QB putting on weight can limit their ability to function and has very limited ability to change positions.

But I think there’s a huge difference in coming into camp out of shape with 15/20 /+ pounds of additional fat (for the second year in a row) and coming in bulked up, having added lean muscle.

at some point Mayock has to realize the guy just isn’t giving his all and being professional.  He was warned and obviously just didn’t care... and has to go at that point.

 

[jimkelly02]

19 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

plot twist

Got a 7th round pick back

 

🙏🙏🙏👏👏👏👏  that changes everything! 

 (Jk)

seriously it is nice that at least we got Something back for him.  That means we have Chicago’s 7th (Eddie Pinero K trade), Minnesota’s 7th, and all our picks minus the 5th which goes to Buffalo for Zay Jones.

 

maybe we can use one of the 2 additional 7th to trade for a DT or another hole we have.... if the chance presents itself.

 

turns out the pick is conditional.  No details what the condition is.  Sometimes it’s the player makes the week 1 roster.... other times like with Pinero they have to make the team and be active for 5 games (or any amount really it changes with every deal)

Edited August 3, 2020 by jimkelly02

[Dessie]

58 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

I'm pretty surprised at this to be honest, I thought Hall showed real flashes of potential and could definitely penetrate and played well in patches but if he was given targets to meet like body mass or cardio and he didn't reach those then a professional organisation does this. A huge shame and a wasted opportunity for sure.

I totally agree on Jernigan, always liked his game and it translates exactly to what we need (or did translate when he was healthy), I've mentioned him before but I'd definitely bring him in for a look and also a larger NT type who could be cover for Hankins, we're desperately thin at run stopping DT now.

Yeah agreed about Hall, thought he flashed potential but the coaches obviously wanted more out of him or as you say he has come back out of shape. I seem to remember Mayock earlier in the year saying that Marinelli would get after him.

Getting a pick for him is at least some reward but ultimately he’s been a bad pick. 

[Turnobili]

hall graded as fairly solid on PFF, fwiw. with collins/hall at the 3 tec, and jelly at the nose, it's not like we had much depth. i know daniel ross is techincally on the roster, but was hall really so far out of it that he couldn't crack the 80?

[NCOUGHMAN]

Hall from what ive seen (on ig) is a party guy. Not really a good match for Vegas I guess the work ethic questions were legit especially how he returned