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What's the big deal with Josh Allen?


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On 10/3/2017 at 11:05 PM, justo said:

He's awful, man.

I don't get what happened...he really wasn't this bad last year. Inaccurate? Sure. He had some "I try too hard" bad decisions, and while you still  don't like those, at least you can understand the impetus that results in them. But he wasn't "bad"...just a prospect with some flaws. This year, you see things like that and it's just baffling. And this year has been filled with moments like these. I still love him, but damn he's making it hard 

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22 hours ago, Forge said:

I don't get what happened...he really wasn't this bad last year. Inaccurate? Sure. He had some "I try too hard" bad decisions, and while you still  don't like those, at least you can understand the impetus that results in them. But he wasn't "bad"...just a prospect with some flaws. This year, you see things like that and it's just baffling. And this year has been filled with moments like these. These aren't flaws we are seeing at this point...just a bad player. 

I'd still take him as a project, but then we are talking project draft position. 

I still think Allen will be a top 10 pick. He has a huge arm that really impresses pro scouts and his character is solid with great intangibles. He is rated way higher than Mahomes who went pretty high in the draft and I will not be shocked in a QB starved league, if he goes top 5 with all his flaws.

People love to nitpick on QB's who are pre ranked as top 5 prospects, Darnold is also getting taken to task for some problems he has had, but do not think that he will not go top 2 or 3.

People have to remember, it takes time for a QB to reach maturity and understand all facets of the position and they usually get drafted as juniors and are not close to the ceiling they carry for a position that requires a lot of experience and adjustment at every level of play. Allen and Darnold have real shots to be solid franchise QB's and that alone will get them drafted quite high. Will they reach their ceiling as pro, nobody knows the answer to that, but as prospects, they are right up there.

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49 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

I still think Allen will be a top 10 pick. He has a huge arm that really impresses pro scouts and his character is solid with great intangibles. He is rated way higher than Mahomes who went pretty high in the draft and I will not be shocked in a QB starved league, if he goes top 5 with all his flaws.

People love to nitpick on QB's who are pre ranked as top 5 prospects, Darnold is also getting taken to task for some problems he has had, but do not think that he will not go top 2 or 3.

People have to remember, it takes time for a QB to reach maturity and understand all facets of the position and they usually get drafted as juniors and are not close to the ceiling they carry for a position that requires a lot of experience and adjustment at every level of play. Allen and Darnold have real shots to be solid franchise QB's and that alone will get them drafted quite high. Will they reach their ceiling as pro, nobody knows the answer to that, but as prospects, they are right up there.

Oh, I don't doubt that he'll get taken high. And to be clear, I've been one of the bigger supporters of Josh Allen here on the site. But this season has been a disaster, it's not really the same as the typical nitpicking. But I'm not seeing the progression that I expected I would from him. His decision making has still been a struggle, his accuracy has looked better at times, but still doesn't display any consistency. I liked him a lot more than I liked Mahomes last year, but I didn't have Mahomes as a first rounder either. This year I had Allen as a first rounder in the preseason, but I find it very difficult to justify that (for myself, if I were making the selection).  But I still think that there's a good shot that he goes in the first, I just hope that the team acknowledges he's a project and not a pro ready guy. He still has probably the highest ceiling in the draft. 

 

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2 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

I still think Allen will be a top 10 pick. He has a huge arm that really impresses pro scouts and his character is solid with great intangibles. He is rated way higher than Mahomes who went pretty high in the draft and I will not be shocked in a QB starved league, if he goes top 5 with all his flaws.

People love to nitpick on QB's who are pre ranked as top 5 prospects, Darnold is also getting taken to task for some problems he has had, but do not think that he will not go top 2 or 3.

People have to remember, it takes time for a QB to reach maturity and understand all facets of the position and they usually get drafted as juniors and are not close to the ceiling they carry for a position that requires a lot of experience and adjustment at every level of play. Allen and Darnold have real shots to be solid franchise QB's and that alone will get them drafted quite high. Will they reach their ceiling as pro, nobody knows the answer to that, but as prospects, they are right up there.

I would argue that the NFL isn't actually QB starved anymore. Teams are always looking for QB's, but most teams either have their guy or have someone that they think can be their guy. There are only actually a few teams without a QB. We're going to have some QB's retiring soon and that might starve the NFL a bit, but as it stands I think the NFL is as in good of shape at QB as it has ever been.

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15 hours ago, DraftHobbyist said:

I would argue that the NFL isn't actually QB starved anymore. Teams are always looking for QB's, but most teams either have their guy or have someone that they think can be their guy. There are only actually a few teams without a QB. We're going to have some QB's retiring soon and that might starve the NFL a bit, but as it stands I think the NFL is as in good of shape at QB as it has ever been.

Sorry, but I do not agree. Leaving out the obvious teams that will have to find replacement franchise QB's when their older starting QB retires soon, these teams sure appear desperate to me if they want to contend for a SB. The Jets, the Browns, Denver, San Fran, Miami, Buffalo and that's not including teams with rather below average QB's like Jacksonville, Cincy, and Arizona. I'm not at all sold on Dak, that he can carry a team far into the playoffs,. Will Luck ever be the same??? Can Bradford get them to the promised land??

You can always argue that they have a starter, but the real question is, can that starter make them a contender for the SB and using that criteria, there is still an awful lot of teams who would like a true franchise QB.

To be honest, I will not be shocked if QB's go 1,2,3 in this year's draft and maybe 1 or 2 more in the 6 to 12 range. This year's crop, if they all declare, looks pretty impressive to me.

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6 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

Sorry, but I do not agree. Leaving out the obvious teams that will have to find replacement franchise QB's when their older starting QB retires soon, these teams sure appear desperate to me if they want to contend for a SB. The Jets, the Browns, Denver, San Fran, Miami, Buffalo and that's not including teams with rather below average QB's like Jacksonville, Cincy, and Arizona. I'm not at all sold on Dak, that he can carry a team far into the playoffs,. Will Luck ever be the same??? Can Bradford get them to the promised land??

You can always argue that they have a starter, but the real question is, can that starter make them a contender for the SB and using that criteria, there is still an awful lot of teams who would like a true franchise QB.

To be honest, I will not be shocked if QB's go 1,2,3 in this year's draft and maybe 1 or 2 more in the 6 to 12 range. This year's crop, if they all declare, looks pretty impressive to me.

I'd agree with you about the Jets. They have Hackenburg and Petty, but overall, they likely need someone. I'd say the Browns have their guy in Kizer, who was the #52 Overall pick. They could Draft someone, but they certainly don't have to. Denver is another team that could Draft someone, but Siemian is actually playing quite well (84.6 passer rating last year and a 89 this year). San Fran needs a guy as Beathard went #104 Overall and Hoyer isn't that great. I think Miami has their guy in Ryan Tannehill. I'm not sure what's up with Buffalo. They have a pretty good QB in Tyrod Taylor who I think could be the guy, but the Bills seem not to trust him. They do have Peterman behind him, though, so I think they are good enough at QB, I just don't know if they feel that way. And sure, there are teams like Arizona who have their guy now but could need a guy for the future, but I mentioned that. For now, Indy still has to look at Luck as their guy. Bradford is good enough when he's healthy. Dak may not be elite long-term, but he's good enough.  Jacksonville had their guy, but time is up for Bortles, so that's a new team that needs a QB. I think Cincy still has to be set with Dalton.

I mean, sure, if we say there are basically only 4 elite QB's in the NFL and every team that doesn't have an elite QB needs another QB, then obviously there aren't enough QB's to go around.  But I think if we have a more reasonable standard where every team that took a young guy fairly highly has a guy to depend on for the future and every team that has an average QB or better is set, then there are actually only a few teams that actually need a guy. I think out of all the teams you mentioned, we could reasonably say only about 4 of them really has to have a guy. More could Draft a QB, but could wait as well. Maybe something like 12.5% of the league definitely needs a QB highly this year, and 25% of the league either needs a guy this year or needs a guy for the future. That's not really the league being starved for QB's IMO. We're basically in a golden age for QB's IMO. This class is going to add probably 3-4 QB's, next class will add probably 4-5 QB's. In a few years, I think we'll see basically every team in the NFL will either have a guy they can depend on or will have a young guy they just took relatively highly. Manning already retired, and we'll see Brees, Brady, and Palmer retiring soon, so that will open up some new needs, but New England might already feel like they have a Brady replacement in Garoppolo, so maybe Brady doesn't even open up a new QB need.

Teams are also proving that if they just have a good running game with a good defense, they can make a run at the Super Bowl, so there is also more than one way to build a roster. That's how San Fran was building their roster under Harbaugh, that's how Dallas built their roster, that's how even Seattle built their roster, although Wilson is good and they can't afford their defense and Wilson, so they got rid of some of their Defense and are becoming a more QB-centered team.

Oh, and I'd be pretty surprised if QB's go #1-#3 Overall. I looked, and the last time QB's went 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Overall was back in 1999. It doesn't happen often. I don't know how many times that has happened, but likely not many. A lot has to line up. You have to have the talent, which some of the talent will likely go back, some will fall through the draft process, they have to be healthy for the most part, and there have to be 3 teams either in position or able to get in position to make it happen. If you're the 3rd team, do you want the 3rd QB or the 1st non-QB and then get your QB next year? I think most of the time the team will opt for the best non-QB in that situation.

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On 10/6/2017 at 9:20 AM, Iamcanadian said:

I still think Allen will be a top 10 pick. He has a huge arm that really impresses pro scouts and his character is solid with great intangibles. He is rated way higher than Mahomes who went pretty high in the draft and I will not be shocked in a QB starved league, if he goes top 5 with all his flaws.

People love to nitpick on QB's who are pre ranked as top 5 prospects, Darnold is also getting taken to task for some problems he has had, but do not think that he will not go top 2 or 3.

People have to remember, it takes time for a QB to reach maturity and understand all facets of the position and they usually get drafted as juniors and are not close to the ceiling they carry for a position that requires a lot of experience and adjustment at every level of play. Allen and Darnold have real shots to be solid franchise QB's and that alone will get them drafted quite high. Will they reach their ceiling as pro, nobody knows the answer to that, but as prospects, they are right up there.

I can't envision any scenario in which Josh Allen goes in the top 10.  I mean, I guess if Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold both return, and a team gets QB thirsty.  But that'd take a LOT to go right.  He's got too many issues right now that keeps him from being a top 10 pick.

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