Hall of Fame Coaches

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

On 8/15/2020 at 8:36 AM, RamblinMan99 said:

He told his entire locker room that he was glad that Big Ben got hurt after the game early in his career.    

lol Ngata broke his nose, let's not act like Harbaugh was cheering on a season-ending injury here.

On 8/15/2020 at 8:36 AM, RamblinMan99 said:

He thinks Lamar is ahead of the rest of the team, and he's expressed that multiple times.  Granted, he's a genius for drafting him, but no head coach should ever act like that.  

What does this even mean, and why would it be a negative thing to hold your MVP QB on a pedestal? You sound so salty at the fact that Harbaugh was able to completely transform the culture of this team within 1 year, and you're acting like that's some sort of a negative thing how he's embraced Lamar Jackson.

But hey, at least kudos for expressing your opinion.

[wackywabbit]

On 8/13/2020 at 6:43 PM, RamblinMan99 said:

John Harbaugh's a terrible human being, but a great football coach. 

The hell is this statement?

I've met Harbaugh in REAL life, (can't say much about the specifics because it's of a somewhat private/personal situation), but John Harbaugh went above and beyond to show class in that situation. I'd be a fan of his even if he wasn't the coach of the team I root for.

Following him for over a decade he's always been that for the team and as a public persona as much as anyone else exposed that long, but of course the REAL life interaction holds more weight for me than whatever headlines we all read. 

Edit: Looking over the rest of the thread, your case is just as stupid as I expected it to be. A phrase in a sentence that doesn't sound proper is the worst you got of him? Tomlin literally tried to trip a Ravens' player who was running on the field. Tomlin smirked on camera when he realized he did it on camera. Then he repeatedly lied about trying to do it.

^No hall of fame for this guy. He is clearly the devil. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by wackywabbit

[Ray Reed]

14 hours ago, Archimedes said:

Pederson ahead of Tomlin is a massive stretch. Saying he is “definitively” better is absurd. Tomlin basically has a slightly better version of the same resume that Payton and Carroll have, so I don’t know what kind of mental gymnastics you’re doing to put Carroll “definitively” ahead of Tomlin either.

No, it’s Tomlin who has a worse resume than Carroll. Less playoff wins, less seasons with a playoff win, less % of seasons making the playoffs in general, etc. No mental gymnastics needed there friend, but that’s a cool phrase to say so i’m sure you enjoyed typing it despite it being inaccurate, so cool.

I explained my reasoning about Payton.

I said “going into 2020”, which is where the Pederson ranking comes in. Tomlin has him on career accomplishments, yeah. But the past 3 seasons Pederson has - IMO - had a more impressive 3 season coaching run than any coach on the list sans Bill with what he’s had to work with health wise and what he’s accomplished (17/18/19).

This kind of push back on Tomlin not being top 5 is exactly why I commented in this thread in the first place. Everyone automatically puts him in there and almost gets offended when he’s not, but he doesn’t have a lock top 5 resume. He just doesn’t...like the other Chiefs poster said, we can agree to disagree.

[Silver]

As the other Raven fans have stated, no one is saying Tomlin is a bad coach, he just needs a little more juice in playoffs to be considered HOF or win a lot more. I am a Ravens fan and used to despise Harbaugh. Then we won a Super Bowl and all my complaints were proven wrong. Icing on the cake is his embrace of Lamar Jackson and the modern offense they Ravens employ. I though him to old school to change. Success with two different quarterbacks is a high watermark of a good coach, let us see where Tomlin is when Ben retires.

[August4th]

John postseason resume is getting kinda overrated. He has just one playoff win since 2012 and just lost in one  of the biggest upsets in the NFL postseason history.

[RamblinMan99]

On 8/15/2020 at 4:23 PM, RandyMossIsBoss said:

BB and Reid are locks.

 

Payton is pretty close. SB ring and lots of wins, and he’s an offensive mind who played a big role in Brees’s record shattering career. I’d call him a lock if not for bountygate.

Yet, Belichick to you is a lock.  

You make absolutely no sense whatsoever here.  

[RamblinMan99]

17 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

The hell is this statement?

I've met Harbaugh in REAL life, (can't say much about the specifics because it's of a somewhat private/personal situation), but John Harbaugh went above and beyond to show class in that situation. I'd be a fan of his even if he wasn't the coach of the team I root for.

Following him for over a decade he's always been that for the team and as a public persona as much as anyone else exposed that long, but of course the REAL life interaction holds more weight for me than whatever headlines we all read. 

Edit: Looking over the rest of the thread, your case is just as stupid as I expected it to be. A phrase in a sentence that doesn't sound proper is the worst you got of him? Tomlin literally tried to trip a Ravens' player who was running on the field. Tomlin smirked on camera when he realized he did it on camera. Then he repeatedly lied about trying to do it.

^No hall of fame for this guy. He is clearly the devil. 

I'm not trying to throw Tomlin's multiple mistakes under the rug.  

He's by far the most overrated head coach in the league.  Harbaugh is definitely a much better coach, and I acknowledge that without waver.  

I'm not one of the Pittsburgh die hards that will defend every member of the team at all costs.  Tomlin does some incredibly stupid things.  And, he inherited a great football team, so half of the work was already done for him.  

But, my original comment was more about Harbaugh the person, not Harbaugh the coach. And, he's definitely a cutthroat person at his core.  No doubt about it. He didn't handle the Joe Flacco situation well at all, and he was almost fired from Baltimore 5 years ago for various reasons.  There are very good reasons why Tomlin's very reluctant to shake hands with him after a game. His brother Jim Harbaugh isn't much different, except for being more outspoken about it.  

Hey, their best years were when he was coaching the team (and still is).  No doubt about that whatsoever.  

But in the end, Harbaugh belongs in Baltimore. 

[Ray Reed]

1 hour ago, August4th said:

John postseason resume is getting kinda overrated. He has just one playoff win since 2012 and just lost in one  of the biggest upsets in the NFL postseason history.

Which, to be fair, was a 30-17 win in Pittsburgh against Tomlin.

I agree with the overall point though, John started his playoff career 10-5 with 7 of those games being road playoff wins - i’m not sure where that stands all time but i know those 7 are the most in NFL history for a QB (Flacco), so it has to be at least close for a HC.

Recently however he’s dropped 2 straight to fall to 10-7...if there’s another one-and-done whenever the next trip is I think it would be perfectly reasonable to start discussing perhaps Harbaugh falling out of the top 5 as a guy who is on a “cold streak” in the playoffs...he would be 0 for his last 3 at that point.

[Archimedes]

5 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

No, it’s Tomlin who has a worse resume than Carroll. Less playoff wins, less seasons with a playoff win, less % of seasons making the playoffs in general, etc. No mental gymnastics needed there friend, but that’s a cool phrase to say so i’m sure you enjoyed typing it despite it being inaccurate, so cool.

I explained my reasoning about Payton.

I said “going into 2020”, which is where the Pederson ranking comes in. Tomlin has him on career accomplishments, yeah. But the past 3 seasons Pederson has - IMO - had a more impressive 3 season coaching run than any coach on the list sans Bill with what he’s had to work with health wise and what he’s accomplished (17/18/19).

This kind of push back on Tomlin not being top 5 is exactly why I commented in this thread in the first place. Everyone automatically puts him in there and almost gets offended when he’s not, but he doesn’t have a lock top 5 resume. He just doesn’t...like the other Chiefs poster said, we can agree to disagree.

Tomlin absolutely doesn’t have a worse resume than Carroll. Tomlin has been coaching one less season than Carroll and has the same number of regular season wins, the same number of SB appearances and wins. He’s got a comfortably better RS win % .642 to .596, and he’s got one more CCCG appearance. I’ll take those numbers over Pete’s playoff appearance edge 10/14 to 8/13, and slightly more playoff wins, 11 to 8. You can not like my choice of words “mental gymnastics”, but I don’t what else to call it as the advantages Tomlin has on his resume clearly trump the advantages Pete has on his.

You’re not getting pushback because you had Tomlin out of the top 5. You had him out of the top 6. And you stated he’s definitively out of the top 6. If we’re talking pure resume, Tomlin is top 4, along with Harbaugh, Reid, and Belichick. Payton and Carroll are close enough that I wouldn’t have minded you having either over him, but you used a completely inaccurate adjective “definitively”.

Pederson isn’t on Tomlin’s level and doesn’t deserve the benefit of being assumed so yet either. He’s in the same boat as Shanahan, McVay, and McCarthy, where he needs to do more work to throw himself into that rarified air (with McCarthy needing the least amount of work).
 

This feels like nothing more than irrational divisional rival hate than legitimate reasons.

[Ray Reed]

11 minutes ago, Archimedes said:

Tomlin absolutely doesn’t have a worse resume than Carroll. Tomlin has been coaching one less season than Carroll and has the same number of regular season wins, the same number of SB appearances and wins. He’s got a comfortably better RS win % .642 to .596, and he’s got one more CCCG appearance. I’ll take those numbers over Pete’s playoff appearance edge 10/14 to 8/13, and slightly more playoff wins, 11 to 8. You can not like my choice of words “mental gymnastics”, but I don’t what else to call it as the advantages Tomlin has on his resume clearly trump the advantages Pete has on his.

You’re not getting pushback because you had Tomlin out of the top 5. You had him out of the top 6. And you stated he’s definitively out of the top 6. If we’re talking pure resume, Tomlin is top 4, along with Harbaugh, Reid, and Belichick. Payton and Carroll are close enough that I wouldn’t have minded you having either over him, but you used a completely inaccurate adjective “definitively”.

Pederson isn’t on Tomlin’s level and doesn’t deserve the benefit of being assumed so yet either. He’s in the same boat as Shanahan, McVay, and McCarthy, where he needs to do more work to throw himself into that rarified air (with McCarthy needing the least amount of work).
 

This feels like nothing more than irrational divisional rival hate than legitimate reasons.

If you think this discussion has been “irrational hate”, i’m not sure how you react to actual irrational arguments, to be honest.

We clearly value different things. You prefer Tomlin’s better regular season win % and 1 more CCG appearance. I prefer the coach who has gone to the playoffs more often, and has won more games in those playoff scenarios.

Nothing i’m saying is irrational at all. Lay off the hyperbole just because we have a different opinion. “Irrational hate” isn’t ranking a division rival’s coach the 7th best in the league heading into 2020. But, again, i’m honestly really over this conversation lol. Respond back if you’d like but you’re not changing my allegedly irrational mind, and i’m not changing yours.

Maybe start a new argument with the Steelers fan above who called Tomlin the most overrated coach in the NFL - that seems a much more demonstrable take on the guy than I have, tbh.

[Archimedes]

1 hour ago, Ray Reed said:

If you think this discussion has been “irrational hate”, i’m not sure how you react to actual irrational arguments, to be honest.

We clearly value different things. You prefer Tomlin’s better regular season win % and 1 more CCG appearance. I prefer the coach who has gone to the playoffs more often, and has won more games in those playoff scenarios.

Nothing i’m saying is irrational at all. Lay off the hyperbole just because we have a different opinion. “Irrational hate” isn’t ranking a division rival’s coach the 7th best in the league heading into 2020. But, again, i’m honestly really over this conversation lol. Respond back if you’d like but you’re not changing my allegedly irrational mind, and i’m not changing yours.

Maybe start a new argument with the Steelers fan above who called Tomlin the most overrated coach in the NFL - that seems a much more demonstrable take on the guy than I have, tbh.

“We clearly value different things”. Lol. Payoff appearances vs CCG appearances. Ok, I’ll keep that in mind. Beyond that, every advantage Carroll has on his resume over Tomlin is minuscule. Tomlin has just as many advantages and they’re also minuscule, save one. RS win%. That the only area of their resumes where this is significant separation. 
 

I’m engaging in hyperbole? You didn’t just only say he was 7th best, you stated he was definitively 7th best. You should check your irony meter.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Archimedes

[Ray Reed]

14 minutes ago, Archimedes said:

“We clearly value different things”. Lol. Payoff appearances vs CCG appearances. Ok, I’ll keep that in mind. Beyond that, every advantage Carroll has on his resume over Tomlin is minuscule. Tomlin has just as many advantages and they’re also minuscule, save one. RS win%. That the only area of their resume’s where this is significant separation. 
 

I’m engaging in hyperbole? You didn’t just only say he was 7th best, you stated he was definitively 7th best. You should check your irony meter.

Pete Carroll’s seahawks have won at least 1 playoff game in 70% of the seasons he’s coached there.

Mike Tomlin’s steelers have accomplished that 30% of the seasons he’s coached there. 

Its not a minuscule advantage. At all. 

Keep brushing it under the rug like that’s not a stat that would matter/be indicative in evaluating the effectiveness of a coach over their careers.  

Maybe when Andy retires Mike will go to KC and we can have this argument again. Until then, we’ve both said our piece - again, go argue with the Steelers fan who said he’s the most overrated coach in the league or something and stop pestering me about the word definitively and your preferential coaching stats...i’m done here bucko ✊🏼

[Soggust]

7 minutes ago, Archimedes said:

“We clearly value different things”. Lol. Payoff appearances vs CCG appearances. Ok, I’ll keep that in mind. Beyond that, every advantage Carroll has on his resume over Tomlin is minuscule. Tomlin has just as many advantages and they’re also minuscule, save one. RS win%. That the only area of their resume’s where this is significant separation. 
 

I’m engaging in hyperbole? You didn’t just only say he was 7th best, you stated he was definitively 7th best. You should check your irony meter.

Furthermore, he stated that those rankings were going into 2020, and acknowledged Tomlin had a better career resume (no doubt there). But remember, this thread is about HOF resumes (so not sure why we are referring to upcoming season rankings), but I didn't realize this until he mentioned having Pederson above him. 

If someone doesn't think Tomlin is a HOF caliber coach, I disagree but fine.
If someone doesn't think Tomlin is a top 5 coach going into 2020, I disagree but fine.
If someone doesn't think Tomlin has a top 5 resume among active coaches for the HOF and also feels the need to question folks automatically putting him in there because they personally rank his resume 6th and have him 7th overall going into 2020 (based on highly debatable criteria), I disagree and think it's an odd hair to feel the need to split. 

[Archimedes]

18 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Pete Carroll’s seahawks have won at least 1 playoff game in 70% of the seasons he’s coached there.

Mike Tomlin’s steelers have accomplished that 30% of the seasons he’s coached there. 

Its not a minuscule advantage. At all. 

See, you get mad when I use terms like “mental gymnastics”, but then you hit me with super cherry-picked stuff like this. Cool, I can do it too.

Tomlin has more double digit winning seasons than Carroll while coaching fewer seasons. Big edge back to Tomlin.

Keep brushing it under the rug like that’s not a stat that would matter/be indicative in evaluating the effectiveness of a coach over their careers.  

18 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Keep brushing it under the rug like that’s not a stat that would matter/be indicative in evaluating the effectiveness of a coach over their careers.  

Maybe when Andy retires Mike will go to KC and we can have this argument again. Until then, we’ve both said our piece - again, go argue with the Steelers fan who said he’s the most overrated coach in the league or something and stop pestering me about the word definitively and your preferential coaching stats...i’m done here bucko ✊🏼

Congratulations lil buddy, you found a super cherry-picked stat to downplay a HOF caliber coach’s resume. You win I guess?

And I would love it if Tomlin succeeded Reid as the next Chiefs coach. I recognize a great coach when I see one.

[RandyMossIsBoss]

9 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said:

Yet, Belichick to you is a lock.  

You make absolutely no sense whatsoever here.  

BB has 6 rings to Payton's 1... What's not to get? Think of it as a scale, and you've got things like bountygate or spygate on one end for each of them.