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Ravens Training Camp 2020

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Yeah, I know a few here weren’t happy with his selection, but he’s got the potential to end up as the best RB in franchise history based off what I saw on tape. If he can remain durable, I see no reason why he won’t easily replace the value left in Hurst’s wake.

Still remember exactly where I was when I watched his first game at Ohio State vs Indiana. Knew the guy was going to be special as a freshman. Huge fan.

Edited by M.10.E

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7 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Yeah, I know a few here weren’t happy with his selection, but he’s got the potential to end up as the best RB in franchise history based off what I saw on tape. If he can remain durable, I see no reason why he won’t easily replace the value left in Hurst’s wake.

I was one of them, but it has most to do with positional value and need rather than the player. The player is good, but we had greater needs and I think a better oline for instance  would bring more value.

I have had a lot of talks with fellow danes, and the discussion is about how we apparently have very different opinions about positional values compared to americans. One suggestion is, that danes don't follow football or are very exposed to it during our school years, so that glamourous position is not exactly something we find important. 

I don't olines are as popular in other countries as they are in Denmark. Yanda has been a well known name for many years even among casual fans for example

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58 minutes ago, Danand said:

I was one of them, but it has most to do with positional value and need rather than the player. The player is good, but we had greater needs and I think a better oline for instance  would bring more value.

I have had a lot of talks with fellow danes, and the discussion is about how we apparently have very different opinions about positional values compared to americans. One suggestion is, that danes don't follow football or are very exposed to it during our school years, so that glamourous position is not exactly something we find important. 

I don't olines are as popular in other countries as they are in Denmark. Yanda has been a well known name for many years even among casual fans for example

IMO once you get out of the first round, I don't really care about positional value (K/P aside) in the draft. If you think someone is good value/player, take em.

The international aspect of positional value could be because analytics have only been big the last decade which might coincide with international growth overseas.

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1 hour ago, M.10.E said:

IMO once you get out of the first round, I don't really care about positional value (K/P aside) in the draft. If you think someone is good value/player, take em.

The international aspect of positional value could be because analytics have only been big the last decade which might coincide with international growth overseas.

Football has been big in Denmark since 2000, most games on tv in any country outside of the US, so analytics might have some influence on recent opinions, but not in a historic perspective.

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By the looks of it we’re gonna get 10 sacks on Burrow this season lmao good goodness

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3 hours ago, Danand said:

I was one of them, but it has most to do with positional value and need rather than the player. The player is good, but we had greater needs and I think a better oline for instance  would bring more value.

I have had a lot of talks with fellow danes, and the discussion is about how we apparently have very different opinions about positional values compared to americans. One suggestion is, that danes don't follow football or are very exposed to it during our school years, so that glamourous position is not exactly something we find important. 

I don't olines are as popular in other countries as they are in Denmark. Yanda has been a well known name for many years even among casual fans for example

True. IOL is responsible for a noticeably greater WAR than for a RB. But from rounds 2-3, not a single IOL went drafted until we took Tyre Phillips at the last pick of the 3rd. Which means had we gone IOL in the mid 2nd, it would’ve logically been Tyre Phillips. This was a down year for the position... as even Phillips is an OT that would be concerting inside.

Whats more I think RB while devalued sees its best value point in recent seasons early to mid 2nd round. You can still find backs with elite potential in the round. Let’s look at the elite backs in the NFL today and where they were drafted:

My Top 10 Backs
Saquon- 1st
CMC- 1st
Ezekiel Elliot- 1st
Derrick Henry- 2nd
Nick Chubb- 2nd
Dalvin Cook- 2nd
Alvin Kamara- 3rd
Joe Mixon- 2nd
Josh Jacobs- 1st
Aaron Jones - 5th
1st- 4x, 2nd- 4x, 3rd- 1x, 5th- 1x

RBs Drafted 2015-2019 (5 years)
1st- 9
2nd- 10
3rd- 16
4th- 22
5th- 18

Now others can make their own list of top 10 backs but I believe my rankings to not be too far out of the norm. It’s partly based off of stats and partly based off of the eye test over the last two seasons. What’s more I acknowledge that other backs like Gurley, Ingram, Hunt, and Bell have been in the top 10 at various points of their careers. That all acknowledged let’s analyze the above top 10 backs and their hit percentages within my most recent top 10 based off the rounds they were drafted.

1st round: 44%
2nd round: 40%
3rd round: 6.3%
4th round: 0%
5th round: 5.5%

So considering the value spent on a 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick and then considering the hit rate for a back to land within the top 10 talents at the position, I think it makes plenty of sense to spend a 2nd round selection on JK Dobbins and his 1st round type talent vs gambling any type of pick later than that considering the incredibly low likelihood of finding an impact talent at that point.

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IMO Boykin showed more in last pre-season than I ever saw from Moore, but I fully understand the sentiment

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3 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Miles Boykin is the next Chris Moore until proven otherwise to me.

Boykin in his rookie year (on a team that threw 440 times) ~doubled the number of catches and ~quadrupled the number of yards vs. Moore in his rookie year (on a team that threw 679 times). Boykin's yardage total in 2019 would be the second highest of Moore's career and his TDs would tie Moore's career high. Additionally, Boykin's Yds/Rec (15.2) and Yds/Target (9.0) significantly exceeds Moore's career highs (13.8 Y/R in 2017 and 7.8 Y/Tgt in 2018)

Boykin is a very strong blocker whereas Moore has been more of a ST contributor.

It's really not a great comparison TBH. 

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The argument for Chris Moore was always that he excelled in TC/practice and made the most of opportunities given to him throughout the season. Was super efficient, especially in 2018(over 90% true catch rate and 111.4 QBR when targeted). Was a 4th Round Investment, and had good tape against college CBs who went on to find success in pros(WJIII,Apple). Thus he should've been rewarded with playing time over the older castaways we kept bringing in, or at least given more in game reps to continue his development and truly see what he's capable of. 

That never happened though. Early on he was buried behind Vets, then in 2019 and forward he's been paced by younger players as well. For whatever reason the Coaches have just never seen fit to expand his role. He's talented on STs, has a great nose for the ball, and has enough ability and chemistry with our QB room to be a deeper option we can lean on should injuries really hit the position. That seems to be his fit. With more talented and youthful options on the roster, no one is complaining either.

Boykin on the other hand just had a meteoric rise. He went straight from flashing in Camp to flashing in Practice to Presumed Upside Starter. Then he would go on to have a 40.8% Snap Share during the 2019 season. I'm not really seeing the Chris Moore comparison either. 

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On the subject of Boykin. He's carried over his weird after catch traits from college to the pros. -6 total after catch yards for Boykin. He's a long strider who's game is built on hauling in deep balls that fall within his massive catch radius. So no one is really expecting him to snag a slant pass and take it to the house. For being such a gifted athlete though, I do find the weird deceleration and balance issues that pop up after the catch for him somewhat disturbing. It's almost like it's a mental issue more so than physical. Negative Six yards after the catch isn't acceptable and if he's going to take the next step for us, that's a key area to address. 

Also for all the talk of Boykin showing out in practice, I found this concentration drop(time stamp embedded below) that occurred the second the TC Live started following the WRs pretty deflating. Apparently he's been catching 500 balls off the JUGS machine a day too. Yet our first glimpse of him is that of a repeat mistake we saw in 2019 games. Obviously that doesn't totally mar the (by all accounts) great day of practice he had, but it does sober you up as a fan. 

 

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