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Summer Camp Roster Talk

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On 8/22/2020 at 8:30 PM, INbengalfan said:

The thing about the backup QBs is that they both looked good in the preseason last August.  We saw what happened to Finley in the three games he started, but we have no idea about Jake in games.  The unknown can be tantalizing, especially to fans.  But I do know that Finley was marginally successful in the ACC, so that trumps anything Jake every did at Central Connecticut State, or whatever directional school he played at.  

 

As for Allen, I got nothing.  Seems like a guy to stash in hiding in case COVID hits the others.

Oh i know.  Jake may amount to nothing.  But based on what we saw last season in Finley's extended time, i think as a coach you have to give Jake some serious consideration.  This is the time to give him some looks as the #2.

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9 hours ago, theJ said:

Oh i know.  Jake may amount to nothing.  But based on what we saw last season in Finley's extended time, i think as a coach you have to give Jake some serious consideration.  This is the time to give him some looks as the #2.

I would like to see that.  What you really want to see is how Dolegala plays with the #1's, right?  Would have been nice to see him get some snaps last year after Dalton returned to starting.  Guess Dolegala will remain a mystery for the time being.

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On 8/24/2020 at 8:36 PM, west tx bengal fan said:

I would like to see that.  What you really want to see is how Dolegala plays with the #1's, right?  Would have been nice to see him get some snaps last year after Dalton returned to starting.  Guess Dolegala will remain a mystery for the time being.

Guess that he got in with 2's today and didn't fare well per reviews of the practice.

Current roster depth order (my version; you can disagree) with updates and notes (as the Striped World Turns):

QB:  Burrow, Finley, Dolegala, Allen ... Dolegala in front of Allen but this could be shaky... Hobson says that Bengals will keep all four amongst the 53 (Roster) & 16 (PS)

RB:  Mixon, Bernard, TWilliams, Patrick, Perine ... according to Hobson, the #3 spot is up for grabs amongst Williams, Perine, and Patrick and they'll only keep 3 on the 53

TE:  Uzomah, Sample, Carter, Schreck, Franks, Wilcox ... Hobson didn't comment after TE2; I still think they keep 4 on the 53; Schreck has been making plays in practice, so I expect him to hold the edge at TE4 (if they keep 4 on 53)

WR: Green, Ross, Boyd, Higgins, Tate, Erickson, Thomas, Morgan, Irwin, Washington, Lodge ... Ross hurt again (shoulder) but thought not to be serious.. he is the modern Glass Joe... Hobson says they'll go 7; figure Thomas leads Morgan right now for WR7 spot... I have no idea which of last 3 has best shot at PS

OL:  JWilliams, Jordan, Hopkins, XSF, Hart, FJohnson, Price, Adeniji, Dugas, Knipfel, Mauigoa;  NFI: Redmond .... still no changes in the OL pecking order; Cordasco waived and Mauigoa signed; Redmond still on NPI... Hobson expects team to carry 9 including first 8 and Redmond

DT:  Reader, Atkins, Daniels, Akinmoladun, Dishon, McKenzie;  IR: Wren ... the McKenzie signing seems odd since he's played only OG in the NFL for two seasons after playing DT in college...since roster cutdown day is drawing near and Bengals have top waiver wire claim, I'm starting to think that they'll hope to grab DT4 (a bigger NT type) if one is available

DE:  Dunlap, Hubbard, Lawson, ABrown, Kareem, Futrell, Sterk, Bledsoe;  Just when I spoke about Kareem starting season, he started practicing (and looks decent).  I have no idea where Futrell, Sterk, and Bledsoe stack up in the PS competition.... Hobson expects 9 total DL

LB:  Pratt, Bynes, LWilson, ADavis-Gaither, Bailey, Evans, Calitro, Sheldon, Spears ... looking more and more like the first 6 go to 53. Hobson had Evans battling for a starting spot (which surprised me to hear.. sorta doubt it)

S:  Bell, Bates, SWilliams, BWilson, Henderson, MSmith ... Know little about Smith.. figure Henderson on PS to start and they keep 4 on 53

CB:  WJackson, Phillips, Alexander, Sims, Rose, TBrown, Mabin, McTyer; IR-return: Waynes ... Waynes' makes the 53 then goes to IR-return the next day; Phillips now at slot CB with Alexander looking for his dad in Florida (best wishes to him on that BTW.. terrible story there);  so Sims & Rose now battling for the other starting boundary CB spot and Brown on radar as CB6; did read somewhere that Mabin & McTyer pretty much lost in shuffle so far

STs:  K - Bullock, Vizcaino;  P - Huber;  LS - Harris, Godsil ... Vizcaino got waived, and I'm figuring that they told him to keep in shape as he'll be their guy if available and Huber or Bullock go down; not sure what to make out of Godsil but I'm guessing that he'll be willing to return every year until Harris hangs them up or he beats Harris out (but I doubt that's this year and I doubt they keep a LS in a PS spot... doesn't make sense to me)

If they go with a 25 man D (DL9, LB6, DB10), then the O would have to be 25 men as well (QB3, RB3, TE3, WR7, OL9).  Maybe they go with QB2 and TE4 while putting Dolegala and Allen on PS?  The other possibility would be to go light on OL with Redmond on NFI to start.

I did read Hobson's notes on the roster rules... can expand roster to 55 on game day by promoting 2 PS players; can designated 4 PS players as "protected" from other teams; can carry 16 on PS.  I'm guessing that PS will be stocked with one of everything to hedge against potential COVID losses requiring team to go with street FA on short notice.  We don't get to know a lot about how players on the bubble are doing because other teams are scouting for potential pick ups on waivers by reading practice reports (so Bengals staying extra mum on things).

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I wouldn't be shocked if they only went with 8 on the OL and carried a couple on the expanded practice squad.  Hart as the swing tackle, Price as backup C/G, and Adeniji as the backup G/T.

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2 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

I wouldn't be shocked if they only went with 8 on the OL and carried a couple on the expanded practice squad.  Hart as the swing tackle, Price as backup C/G, and Adeniji as the backup G/T.

Maybe, but if you want to expand the roster from 53 to 54 or 55, there have to be 9 OL included in that.  They don't want more teams playing TEs as OTs, hence the roster expansion.  So maybe they keep 8, but one of the added players has to be an olineman, if I am interpreting that correctly.  it could be set up where 9 have to be already on the roster to add the 54th or 55th guy.

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2 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

I wouldn't be shocked if they only went with 8 on the OL and carried a couple on the expanded practice squad.  Hart as the swing tackle, Price as backup C/G, and Adeniji as the backup G/T.

Hey Duke:

I guess the safe thought here is that we don’t know much after the first 35-40 players.  Additional notes:

* Hart as swing OT: I guess would hint that you like FJohnson to start at RT?  Prob I see with that based on current but limited feedback is that camp reports have Johnson way behind Hart in snaps, production, and, most importantly, coaching staff’s eyes.  As much as Hart has been a C-  OT here, I think he’s the starter with about 2 weeks til the opener.

* 8 OL: def possibility especially if Redmond stays on NFI; Dugas and maybe one other then to PS; thing about Bengals is that they don’t play hide-n-seek with the PUP/NFI option and will do crap like activating Redmond the week before cutdown... and nobody even knows what’s wrong with Redmond who has been working on the side reportedly with Conditioning coaches.  I don’t see them cutting Redmond tho... so if he’s activated and the other 8 are healthy, I expect them to go 9 on the 53.  One more note... looks like they think both Johnson and Adeniji can play everything other than C, so that’s super helpful on Sundays (with Price & Redmond able to play all the interior spots).

* TE:  remains a big mystery after Uzomah & Sample; little said about the other 4; I think it’s tough to think about going with 3 TEs tho if you’re going to play a lot of double TE sets and/or don’t have an OL who can take snaps as a TE; I expect Carter to be TE3 as he’s a big STs player

* RB3: another mystery but I think they like TWilliams

 

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9 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

Maybe, but if you want to expand the roster from 53 to 54 or 55, there have to be 9 OL included in that.  They don't want more teams playing TEs as OTs, hence the roster expansion.  So maybe they keep 8, but one of the added players has to be an olineman, if I am interpreting that correctly.  it could be set up where 9 have to be already on the roster to add the 54th or 55th guy.

Hey INdy:  How is school thing going?

The nuances of the extra two roster guys on game day remains to be seen.  I suspect that the rule simply exists to allow teams to bring up 1-2 players without having to expose their last 1-2 roster bubble guys to waivers.  This happens when multiple injuries hit and force teams to make decisions on how to enter game day with adequate roster positional depth and balance.  In turn, this is usually a situation that strikes once the regular season starts, so I don’t expect many teams to use it early unless the team has multiple injured guys who they’re carrying with expectations to be available in 4-5 weeks or less (otherwise would use IR-Return designation).  And the Bengals, notoriously frugal, wont want to ante up the extra $30 k cap hit per player per week to use the roster extension rule unless it’s relatively dire.

i think we’re seeing some new front office moves (UFA this year, for instance), but I don’t expect that to be a global thing in the organization.

With Vizcaino’s cut to bring in some marginal roster depth, I think I see their angles better.  They are trying to fill out the roster so that they can run two full squads in both sides in scrimmages with players at their regular positions.  Some areas they prefer 3+ deep if the players are running a lot on each snap... you see that in the O skill areas and D back 7.  I suspect that they like Viz and told him to stay ready.  I suspect Godsil will get the same notice soon as well (not going to change LS as long as Harris healthy and functional; not going to pay a LS to be on PS unless they think he’s got use as a TE as well).

Read in Hobson’s and others’ reports yesterday that Dolegala stunk place up when Finley our sick.  Also read:

* Looking like Erickson & Thomas at WR6-7

* Starting OL looks to be same as when camp started 

* Sample playing much better this camp

* LB spots still a mystery; sounds like Pratt & Bynes will be primaries; Wilson & Evans will get consideration for snaps; ADG will be situational guy; Bailey and others still a mystery

* Apparently Alexander’s dad was located and his initial court date for alleged assault on dad’s berry-picking buddy is over (with him pleading not guilty).  So he’ll be back soon and will likely get a pass from league on this until case finally adjudicated.  So that helps on CB issues.... expect them to waive TBrown and bring him back following Mon when Waynes goes to IR-Return.

* I expect D to be 9 DL, 6 LB, 10 DB for total 25.

* O would then need to be 25 total with uncertainties at every area as to subtotal numbers.  They’ll figure out a way tho to protect cap, minimize waiver losses, and keep younger bubble guys on PS.  I think that points to 3 RB (which Hobson already forecasting) and maybe only 2 QB ... why else would Baghdad Hobs be busting on Dolegala’s performance when you don’t hear that about any other players?  If they went with only 5 in backfield and 7 WR, they’d have room for 4 TE and 9 OL.

* I always try to remember on roster decisions that Coach Simmons gets a big say on bubble decisions.  Gotta figure out who are the gunners on Punt coverage, who are the additional 3-4 big coverage guys on KO and P teams, and who are the 2-3 returners for KR and PR.  Morgan played at Pro Bowl level on teams the last 1/2 or so of 2019, so that’s going to be a big deal at cutdown time (and maybe a reason they cut Thomas and carry him on PS to start season).  Erickson is the steadiest hands PR guy, and that’s a big deal (think: retain possession first).  Also focus on fact that Phillips needs to conserve energy as the CB2 guy, so he can’t be taking too many snaps on STs.  Brandon Wilson is the quiet weapon as KR, STs gunner, KO coverage outside man, and occasional FS guy on D.  If Morgan doesn’t make team, who goes to gunner opposite Wilson?  Thomas has done that previously for the Rams. You might look at one of the backup CBs (Sims or Rose).  Finally, how do you replace the coverage skills of Fej?  Carter and Schreck are both players who took a lot of STs snaps, so this is one reason I see them going with 4 TEs.  They might be counting on SWilliams to take a lot of STs snaps, but that’s usually not a great plan for an older vet.  A good guess is that the rookie LBs and Kareem might be candidates for STs play if/when they’re active on game day.

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On 8/27/2020 at 11:20 AM, west tx bengal fan said:

Hey INdy:  How is school thing going?

The nuances of the extra two roster guys on game day remains to be seen.  I suspect that the rule simply exists to allow teams to bring up 1-2 players without having to expose their last 1-2 roster bubble guys to waivers.  This happens when multiple injuries hit and force teams to make decisions on how to enter game day with adequate roster positional depth and balance.  In turn, this is usually a situation that strikes once the regular season starts, so I don’t expect many teams to use it early unless the team has multiple injured guys who they’re carrying with expectations to be available in 4-5 weeks or less (otherwise would use IR-Return designation).  And the Bengals, notoriously frugal, wont want to ante up the extra $30 k cap hit per player per week to use the roster extension rule unless it’s relatively dire.

i think we’re seeing some new front office moves (UFA this year, for instance), but I don’t expect that to be a global thing in the organization.

With Vizcaino’s cut to bring in some marginal roster depth, I think I see their angles better.  They are trying to fill out the roster so that they can run two full squads in both sides in scrimmages with players at their regular positions.  Some areas they prefer 3+ deep if the players are running a lot on each snap... you see that in the O skill areas and D back 7.  I suspect that they like Viz and told him to stay ready.  I suspect Godsil will get the same notice soon as well (not going to change LS as long as Harris healthy and functional; not going to pay a LS to be on PS unless they think he’s got use as a TE as well).

Read in Hobson’s and others’ reports yesterday that Dolegala stunk place up when Finley our sick.  Also read:

* Looking like Erickson & Thomas at WR6-7

* Starting OL looks to be same as when camp started 

* Sample playing much better this camp

* LB spots still a mystery; sounds like Pratt & Bynes will be primaries; Wilson & Evans will get consideration for snaps; ADG will be situational guy; Bailey and others still a mystery

* Apparently Alexander’s dad was located and his initial court date for alleged assault on dad’s berry-picking buddy is over (with him pleading not guilty).  So he’ll be back soon and will likely get a pass from league on this until case finally adjudicated.  So that helps on CB issues.... expect them to waive TBrown and bring him back following Mon when Waynes goes to IR-Return.

* I expect D to be 9 DL, 6 LB, 10 DB for total 25.

* O would then need to be 25 total with uncertainties at every area as to subtotal numbers.  They’ll figure out a way tho to protect cap, minimize waiver losses, and keep younger bubble guys on PS.  I think that points to 3 RB (which Hobson already forecasting) and maybe only 2 QB ... why else would Baghdad Hobs be busting on Dolegala’s performance when you don’t hear that about any other players?  If they went with only 5 in backfield and 7 WR, they’d have room for 4 TE and 9 OL.

* I always try to remember on roster decisions that Coach Simmons gets a big say on bubble decisions.  Gotta figure out who are the gunners on Punt coverage, who are the additional 3-4 big coverage guys on KO and P teams, and who are the 2-3 returners for KR and PR.  Morgan played at Pro Bowl level on teams the last 1/2 or so of 2019, so that’s going to be a big deal at cutdown time (and maybe a reason they cut Thomas and carry him on PS to start season).  Erickson is the steadiest hands PR guy, and that’s a big deal (think: retain possession first).  Also focus on fact that Phillips needs to conserve energy as the CB2 guy, so he can’t be taking too many snaps on STs.  Brandon Wilson is the quiet weapon as KR, STs gunner, KO coverage outside man, and occasional FS guy on D.  If Morgan doesn’t make team, who goes to gunner opposite Wilson?  Thomas has done that previously for the Rams. You might look at one of the backup CBs (Sims or Rose).  Finally, how do you replace the coverage skills of Fej?  Carter and Schreck are both players who took a lot of STs snaps, so this is one reason I see them going with 4 TEs.  They might be counting on SWilliams to take a lot of STs snaps, but that’s usually not a great plan for an older vet.  A good guess is that the rookie LBs and Kareem might be candidates for STs play if/when they’re active on game day.

Hey WTBF,

School is running ok given the environment, but things are three times harder than a "normal" year.

You got me thinking about the roster, and here's what I came up with on a 7 mile run:

QB  Burrow and Finley on the 53, maybe Dolegada, and Allen on the PS for sure.  If they can slide Jake there, maybe 

RB  If you are right abut 3, then it's Mixon, Bernard and Williams, with Perine and the XFL guy on the PS.  But I think one of those two makes it, but more on that la.

TE  Sample, Uzomah, Carter are locks.  Not sure about Schreck, but if they go four, he's the guy.  And he might be cut on cut down day and brought back the next day.  More on th, XSF at later.

WR 7 to start, and maybe an 8th.  Green, Boyd, Ross, Higgins, Tate as locks.  Erickson will be PR, so there's 6.  Morgan vs Thomas for the 7th spot

OL  Jonah, Jordan, Hopkins, Johnson, Hart, Price, Adeniji, XFS as locks, with Redmond probably the 9th.

 

DL  4 tackles (Atkins, reader, Daniels, Brown) and 4 DEs (Hubbard, Lawson, Dunlap and Kareem) on the initial roster.  if they want nine, the ninth may be added after we move guys to IR after final cuts to keep them eligible for Recall.

LB  6 to start   Bynes, Pratt, Wilson, ADG, Bailey and either Callitro or Evans.  Evans if they want another cover guy, Callitro for teams.  They could also add a seventh once Waynes moves.

DB  11 to start, with Waynes being moved to IR after the final cut for Recall purposes.  Jackson, Waynes, Alexander, Phillips, Sims, Rose and one of the others at CB.  Bell, Bates, Williams and Wilson at safety.  

3 three usual suspects on STs (Huber, Bullock, Harris)

 

There's still one spot open on offense, so it's the third QB vs. a forth RB vs. a fourth TE for that spot.  Talent wise, it should be Dolegada or a fourth RB.  But special teams may dictate it is Schreck for STs.

After Waynes is moved to IR, it's the ninth DL vs. Seventh LB vs. a 7th CB vs Henderson as the fifth safety.  For the record, I think Henderson goes to the PS relatively easily.  They 7th CB will have done nothing to show enough to warrant it, and a 9th DL hasn't either at this point.  So it could be a 7th LB, or maybe they can now take an eith WR, a 4th RB or a fourth TE.  So in essence, they could take two of those three options.  Morgan offers ST play at gunner, and Perine can cover kicks, so i give those two the edge.  But I wouldn't be shocked if Schreck gets the nod over one of them, or a third QB does instead.

 

 

 

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I feel like i'm 20 steps behind normal at this time of the season.  I can't even think of who half those back half roster guys are.  

But i'll trust your evaluation @west tx bengal fan

I also heard about Dolegala's unimpressive performance.  That probably seals him as QB#3.

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Getting close to cutdown date with some final projections out there from a few sources.  First, let's look at the new roster and Practice Squad allowances:

* Rosters are still 53 men

  • Game day active max is 48; if you activate 48, you must carry at least 8 OL
  • Game day active min is 44
  • Teams may expand roster to 54 or 55 on game day by elevating PS player(s) without PS player(s)' contract status changing.  This does NOT cost the team any extra money; however, any given player can only be utilized in this manner twice per season without that usage being in two consecutive weeks (otherwise player will need to have contract changed and clear waivers when reverting back to PS afterwards).

* Practice Squad maximum is 16 men (up from the planned number of 12 due to COVID-19 allowance)

  • Players with 0-2 prior accrued NFL seasons will earn $8400 per week
  • Players with 3+ prior accrued NFL seasons will earn $12,000 per week
  • Due to COVID-19, teams' PS allowance number of players with unlimited prior accrued NFL seasons is 6 (up from planned number of 2)
  • Due to COVID-19, each team may designated up to 4 PS players per week who are protected from being signed by other teams

Instead of throwing out all of the names, I'll just note where I expect there to be a few discussion:

QB: Taylor very recently calling Finley "a good #2 QB," so there's that.  Questions then become:  Whether they carry 3 on roster or 2?  Whether the remainder not kept on roster will stay on PS?  We're basically talking about Allen & Dolegala here.  My suspicion is that Taylor will keep both of these guys on the PS (with Allen being one of 6 allowable PS players having 3+ accrued seasons and likely being quarantined through the season for game day activation in case the QB room is stricken with COVID).

RB:  The popular guess here is that Perine gets the RB3 spot with the team keeping only 3 on the 53.  I profess that I don't have a clue on this one.  We've read that Patrick has been solid and is a huge physical specimen.  TWilliams definitely has a skill set similar to Bernard's, so maybe they try to stash him on the PS in 2020 and allow him to take Bernard's spot if he is injured? 

TE:  Again, we're hearing that they will go light with only 3 leaving Schreck, Wilcox, and Franks to fight for (most likely) two PS spots.

WR:  Have to guess they'll go 7 here with the bottom 2 going to Thomas and Erickson.  That puts Morgan (if not picked up by another team, which I think is quite likely... for his STs skills) on the PS with maybe one other (Washington or Lodge).

OL:  Almost assuredly will be 9 with Redmond activated yesterday and probably knocking Dugas onto the PS.  Expect them to keep 2-3 total on PS... after Dugas they have Knipfel (who has been injured in camp) and Mauigoa (who was just signed).

DT:  After the top 3, you probably have DE/DT Andrew Brown backing up.  Some feel that Akinmoladun will ease his way onto the 53, and we know little about Dishon or recently signed McKenizie (either who could get a PS spot).

DE:  Kareem has apparently done quite well in his limited camp time and becomes the obvious DE5 (counting Brown as DE4).  Some have Bledsoe as a DE6.. I'm not sure about that nor about the status of rookies Sterk or Futrell.

LB:  The first 5 are set with the three rookie picks and the two expected vets.  I'd expect them to keep 6 and expect Evans will be on the roster.  I'd also expect them to keep 2 on the PS with the CFA Spears being one and Calitro & Sheldon sparring for the other.

S:  I think they'll keep the four vets on the 53 and Henderson on the PS.

CB:  The top 6 coming into camp (including Waynes) will make the 53.  Waynes will quickly go to IR-return, and it looks like TBrown will be brought back to the 53.  That leaves either Mabin or McTyer on the PS.

STs:  Same old 3.  I would be shocked to see them keep Godsil on the PS, but he's probably being told that when Clark retires that he has his spot.

Doing a quick review of the above with projections listed as Position R/PS, we have:  QB 2/2, RB 3/2, TE 3/2, WR 7/2, OL 9/2, DL 9/2, LB 6/2, CB 6/1 (1 IR-return), S 4/1, and STs 3/0.  That sub-totals overall to:  O 24/10, D 25/6 (1 IR-return), STs 3/0... and totals to 52/16 (1 IR-return).

So there is room for one more player.. maybe one more at QB, RB, TE, or DL?  We need to remember that we have the #1 spot on the waiver wire claim.

Additionally, what areas could we benefit most from a late addition?  Certainly, we are light on the backup big DT and might be attracted to an OL who is better than Redmond at OL9.  And we'd certainly consider grabbing any player who upgrades the bottom of the 53-man roster which we can define as the projected last players on the roster at their positional areas:   QB: Finley/Dolegala; RB: Perine/TWilliams; TE: Carter/Schreck; WR: Thomas/Morgan; OL: Redmond; DT: Akimmoladun; DE: ABrown; LB: Evans; S: SWilliams; CB: TBrown.

Finally, is there any chance of trading any of our current players?  These are guys who might be targets for a trade:  WR/KR Erickson.. will be a UFA in 2021; OL Redmond ... on a one-year deal and never seems to be healthy and/or ready to play.  Overall, though, I don't see a trade coming.

Edited by west tx bengal fan

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1 hour ago, Beck Bristow said:

They could maybe add along the  d line after cuts, but that's always so hard to predict. 

That's where I see DL9 coming from at this point.  Definitely if a OL they like gets axed, but teams don't do that without serious off-field concerns.  Possibly a LB from a team with too many.  

 

Don't see them claiming a WR, QB, RB, specialist on ST, or safety under realistic conditions of who suddenly becomes available.

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43 minutes ago, Beck Bristow said:

Or maybe trade Calitro for a DT.

Nostradamus, you are trying to disguise as, me thinks (in best Yoda voice)

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3 hours ago, Beck Bristow said:

Or maybe trade Calitro for a DT.

Seems like a win for both teams 

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