What current QBs are in your Hall of Very Good

[thebestever6]

On 8/17/2020 at 2:14 PM, Jeezla said:

Cam, Ryan, and Stafford. Eventually Watson. I think Rivers somehow sneaks in the HoF for basically being the Frank Gore of QB's, but he should be Hall of Very Good.

Does Eli make it

[thebestever6]

Wilson on this list y'all done lost your mind!!!! First ballot HOF

I think Warner is the bar you got to get to to make the hall as a qb now a days Wilson certainly has done that.

Stafford I don't see making it he has been overshadowed by Rodgers his whole career. Also Matt is a better qb than Cutler but with a team who always had high expectations ala the bears especially in 2010 we don't even know how Stafford performs under that pressure so do I feel bad not really.

I feel bad for Matt Ryan was close to a SB with Tony G. Was also so close with Kyle Shannahan and than that lead vanished. Unfortunately, I think Matt is in the hall of very good I'd love to see him with Shanny longer ala McDaniels and Brady they had chemistry.

Denver realistically ruined Cams Career during that SB year and week one the following year. He's literally never been the same since then and I think coming off that MVP season he had something cooking to lead him to the hall a lot has happened since.

I personally don't see Watson getting close having BB as your coach and GM is a recipe for disaster or one and dones.

I'm intrigued to see the next era of QBs for instance Lamar Jackson is an unconventional QB he had an MVP second year. He may never get the bulk stats so assuming he wins a superbowl or two how do you grade him getting in?

That team was battling KC last year in the regular season who were eventually Superbowl champs. 

[Archimedes]

32 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Wilson on this list y'all done lost your mind!!!! First ballot HOF

I think Warner is the bar you got to get to to make the hall as a qb now a days Wilson certainly has done that.

Stafford I don't see making it he has been overshadowed by Rodgers his whole career. Also Matt is a better qb than Cutler but with a team who always had high expectations ala the bears especially in 2010 we don't even know how Stafford performs under that pressure so do I feel bad not really.

I feel bad for Matt Ryan was close to a SB with Tony G. Was also so close with Kyle Shannahan and than that lead vanished. Unfortunately, I think Matt is in the hall of very good I'd love to see him with Shanny longer ala McDaniels and Brady they had chemistry.

Denver realistically ruined Cams Career during that SB year and week one the following year. He's literally never been the same since then and I think coming off that MVP season he had something cooking to lead him to the hall a lot has happened since.

I personally don't see Watson getting close having BB as your coach and GM is a recipe for disaster or one and dones.

I'm intrigued to see the next era of QBs for instance Lamar Jackson is an unconventional QB he had an MVP second year. He may never get the bulk stats so assuming he wins a superbowl or two how do you grade him getting in?

That team was battling KC last year in the regular season who were eventually Superbowl champs. 

Uhhh, Warner has 2 MVPs, 2 AP 1st team selections, a SB MVP, and led 2 different franchises to SB appearances, both of which were dumpster fires before he came...

There’s no way Wilson has cleared the bar Warner set.

[thebestever6]

10 minutes ago, Archimedes said:

Uhhh, Warner has 2 MVPs, 2 AP 1st team selections, a SB MVP, and led 2 different franchises to SB appearances, both of which were dumpster fires before he came...

There’s no way Wilson has cleared the bar Warner set.

And they were dumpster fires when he left ?

Wilson has been to two Superbowls .

Seattle was pedestrian two 7-9 seasons before he got there. His record is phenomenal. 

I'm sorry you don't remember Charlie WhiteHurst starting games for the Seahawks.

Wonder how they would of been with Matt Flynn.

 

Wilson has surpassed him in record, winning percentage, td to int ratios, Tds I'm not even factoring in running statistics.

Edited August 26, 2020 by thebestever6

[Archimedes]

59 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

And they were dumpster fires when he left ?

That particular incarnation of the Rams never returned to the SB after Warner left, nor did those Cardinals. The Rams were fairly mediocre after he left but not a complete dumpster fire. The Cardinals were.

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

Wilson has been to two Superbowls .

And Warner went to 3. With two different franchises. 

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

Seattle was pedestrian two 7-9 seasons before he got there. His record is phenomenal. 

I'm sorry you don't remember Charlie WhiteHurst starting games for the Seahawks.

Wonder how they would of been with Matt Flynn.

And I’m sorry you don’t remember the Rams being the butt of national jokes in the 90s. Stubblefield with the infamous “same old Rams” quote. The 90s Rams and 2000s Cardinals were in much sorrier shape than the Seahawks before Russ took over.

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

Wilson has surpassed him in record, winning percentage, td to int ratios, Tds I'm not even factoring in running statistics

None of that stuff you brought up for Wilson compare to Warner’s accomplishments. Seriously, you’re comparing winning percentage and TD/INT ratios to MVPs??? And when you adjust their numbers relative to the eras, Warner’s are very favorable to Russ’s. Now, Wilson can certainly surpass Warner eventually... But he hasn’t done that yet.

[thebestever6]

52 minutes ago, Archimedes said:

That particular incarnation of the Rams never returned to the SB after Warner left, nor did those Cardinals. The Rams were fairly mediocre after he left but not a complete dumpster fire. The Cardinals were.

And Warner went to 3. With two different franchises. 

And I’m sorry you don’t remember the Rams being the butt of national jokes in the 90s. Stubblefield with the infamous “same old Rams” quote. The 90s Rams and 2000s Cardinals were in much sorrier shape than the Seahawks before Russ took over.

None of that stuff you brought up for Wilson compare to Warner’s accomplishments. Seriously, you’re comparing winning percentage and TD/INT ratios to MVPs??? And when you adjust their numbers relative to the eras, Warner’s are very favorable to Russ’s. Now, Wilson can certainly surpass Warner eventually... But he hasn’t done that yet.

Warner had 5 elite seasons and the rest sucked. Why can't we name those stats?

And Fitzgerald, Boldin, Holt, and Bruce were cream of the crop at Wrs during the time spent. Has Wilson ever had two top 15 wrs at the same time?

 

lso I think Wilson has played ina crazier qb era than Warner he essentially is the mvp of his team every year he's Z pack to that offense in the words of Dan Orlosky covers up flaws fixes alot  

MVPs of the league can go to QBs leading star wars offenses that's never been Wilsons mo yet he still has more tds, yards, win loss, td to int ratio. 

Guy has only thrown a max of 11 picks in the season .

[thebestever6]

Nothing will ever surpass Kurt Warner's peaks in those two or three deep playoff runs he also played great in those playoffs. He kinda Is a hall of fame rich Nick Foles. But Warner had a lot of Valleys .  

Wilson never had those so yes I believe he has surpassed him.

[Archimedes]

14 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Warner had 5 elite seasons and the rest sucked. Why can't we name those stats?

Because of severe injuries to his hand and a concussion, not because he couldn’t play.

 

16 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

And Fitzgerald, Boldin, Holt, and Bruce were cream of the crop at Wrs during the time spent. Has Wilson ever had two top 15 wrs at the same time?

No, he just had a historically dominant defense and wasn’t asked to carry a heavy offensive load earlier on when he went to his SBs. He’s also had one of the best coaches in the league his whole career. 

 

22 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

lso I think Wilson has played ina crazier qb era than Warner he essentially is the mvp of his team every year he's Z pack to that offense in the words of Dan Orlosky covers up flaws fixes alot  

Its debatable who played in a “crazier qb era”. And I never said Wilson wasn’t good. I said he hasn’t surpassed Warner.

25 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

MVPs of the league can go to QBs leading star wars offenses that's never been Wilsons mo yet he still has more tds, yards, win loss, td to int ratio. 

You can’t compare their numbers directly because they played in two completely different eras.
 

Warner led the league in passer rating twice, Russ once.

Warner led the league in passing TDS twice, Russ once.

Warner led the league in passing yards once, Russ never.

Warner led the league in ANY/A three times, Russ never.

And please tell me you’re not trying to play up win/loss percentage over MVPs!!!! You might as well be hyping up Alex Smith for his amazing win/loss record in the 2010s. C’mon now. Regardless, Warner also has a SB MVP, something Russ also doesn’t have.

[Mr Bad Example]

15 hours ago, Archimedes said:

Uhhh, Warner has 2 MVPs, 2 AP 1st team selections, a SB MVP, and led 2 different franchises to SB appearances, both of which were dumpster fires before he came...

There’s no way Wilson has cleared the bar Warner set.

I disagree that "there's no way Wilson has cleared the bar Warner set" but I feel like there is a lot of misunderstanding of Warner's career because it looks so odd - the  usual path of "sit/struggle as a rookie, be good your 2nd year, then dominate for a 5 yr stretch before tailing off over a 14 yr career" simply doesn't apply to Warner - nonentity as a rookie, supernova from  years 2-4, struggled/mediocre in years 5-9, MVP caliber again in years 10-12....no one else's career looks like that, but it's still 6 yrs of high-level performance, and my bar to clear is "5 yrs as a top 3-5 player at your position" 

[Archimedes]

2 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

I disagree that "there's no way Wilson has cleared the bar Warner set" but I feel like there is a lot of misunderstanding of Warner's career because it looks so odd - the  usual path of "sit/struggle as a rookie, be good your 2nd year, then dominate for a 5 yr stretch before tailing off over a 14 yr career" simply doesn't apply to Warner - nonentity as a rookie, supernova from  years 2-4, struggled/mediocre in years 5-9, MVP caliber again in years 10-12....no one else's career looks like that, but it's still 6 yrs of high-level performance, and my bar to clear is "5 yrs as a top 3-5 player at your position" 

Look, I’m certainly not downplaying how good Russ has been. I don’t think he’s quite cleared the bar for the HOF just yet, but he’s certainly on the right pace. I’d like to see him maintain his current level of play for a couple more years before I’d be completely solid on his induction.

As for Warner, injuries played a much bigger factor in his run in STL ending then people tend to acknowledge. He never got a fair shake in NY, but it’s hard to blame the Giants because they had a blue chip prospect waiting in Eli, and that turned out to be the right decision for them. His run in Arizona would’ve looked even more impressive than it ended up being, but not for the fact that it took the organization bizarrely too long to realize that Leinart sucked.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

Wilson has played at a good to great level more consistently, but Warner from 1999 to 2001 was playing at a super level that no one in the league was matching at the time in an era where offense still wasn't completely dunking on defenses. Wilson may never throw for 40 TDs or passing for 300+ yards a game, but has played well enough in his own way to earn a spot in Canton himself. 

As it relates to this thread, in my book, both are above the "Hall of Very Good" scale. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by TecmoSuperJoe

[Chargers]

Unless Russell Wilson has a plummeting career or never wins another playoff game then I could see him not being a HOF. Outside of that he has been a top 5 QB since 2015 and has missed the playoffs once. He is also easily one spectacular players to watch live as well as loved by the canton voters. 

[SkippyX]

I think Rivers having a good statistical season (top 10 level) and winning a playoff game or two where he plays well is enough to push him over.

 

Warner is a no doubt HoF player and Wilson is on his way but still needs a bit of accrual paperwork.

• Wilson is 86-41-1 with a 100+ rating
• He is 9-6 in the playoffs with a 96+ rating and a SB ring.

Hall of Good talk on Wilson is weak in my opinion.

• Wilson has 9 playoff games with a 100+ rating out of 15 games.
  • Rodgers has 8 in 17
  • Peyton Manning had 6 in 27 games.
  • Brady has 16 in 41 games
  • Rivers has 4 in 11

Wilson skates in even if he has 6 additional mediocre years to get to seasons played and raw stats that the voting buffoons crave.

There are only 3 players in NFL history to qualify with a TD to INT ratio better than 3 to 1.

• Rodgers
• Wilson
• Brady

* Mahomes will soon be 4 and Jackson could get there if he continues like 2019

Wilson is also a 3993 yard, 19 TD, 5.5 per carry runner so far.

[SkippyX]

Warner is the best QB to ever play for 2 different NFL franchises (Arizona and St Louis/LA)

• He took two terribly awful franchise to the Super Bowl a total of 3 times.
• Both teams were terrible before him and returned to awful soon after he left.

Hes a 102.8 rated playoff passer. That's #1 all-time

• He only has 4  100+ games in 13 but that's because he has 5 more in the 90s.
• This includes his MVP game at 99.7
• Oh yeah, 3 of those 4 at 100+ are also at 140+ rating

He was league MVP twice.

He is 13th all-time in passer rating and only Young and Manning above him started their career with him or before him.

• Brady was a year later
• The rest are modern players

He retired as #2 in passing yards per game behind only Manning.

• He is currently 9th on that list

 

I guess the counterpoint is that he has 600 less regular season passing yards than Aikman and 800 less than Young so no Hall for him? 🤣

Edited August 30, 2020 by SkippyX

[TecmoSuperJoe]

10 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Warner is the best QB to ever play for 2 different NFL franchises (Arizona and St Louis/LA)

• He took two terribly awful franchise to the Super Bowl a total of 3 times.
• Both teams were terrible before him and returned to awful soon after he left.

Hes a 102.8 rated playoff passer. That's #1 all-time

• He only has 4  100+ games in 13 but that's because he has 5 more in the 90s.
• This includes his MVP game at 99.7
• Oh yeah, 3 of those 4 at 100+ are also at 140+ rating

He was league MVP twice.

He is 13th all-time in passer rating and only Young and Manning above him started their career with him or before him.

• Brady was a year later
• The rest are modern players

He retired as #2 in passing yards per game behind only Manning.

• He is currently 9th on that list

 

I guess the counterpoint is that he has 600 less regular season passing yards than Aikman and 800 less than Young so no Hall for him? 🤣

The huge counterpoint is that he had a big dip in quality play for about a 6 year stretch. At one point he was competing with Matt Leinart for a starting job, which he lost out to initially, and then got back. I can't think of any other HOF quarterbacks that went as far as being a dominant force that Warner was for 3 years, to being unremarkable for 5 years, and then playing good the last 3 years of their career. He's a shooting star type player, but the HOF has let other guys like Terrell Davis and Jimmy Johnson in the HOF so the shackles aren't what they used to be. I wouldn't be surprised if Sterling Sharpe got in sooner rather than later. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by TecmoSuperJoe