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Ravens to release/trade Earl Thomas

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6 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

I definitely feel more justified with my takes on the Safety position before the draft too-

FEB 7th: "Honestly I think Safety is an under the radar (not small) need. Levine is a FA, Carr is a FA, Earl is in his 30s, Deshon has IR'd two seasons in a row now and hasn't cemented himself, and Clark is in a contract year".

 

March 4th: "No one should be shocked if we go with a Safety early. Especially if we acquire a top end EDGE in FA/by trade. 

Earl Thomas is on the wrong side of 30, as is Levine who's also a UFA. Jefferson is gone. Elliot hasn't lasted half a season yet. And Clark is essentially a LB on pure passing downs. Carr can play Safety, but he's far from elite and his lack of physicality leaves us vulnerable.

We need more than a couple bodies added to the position group, and a starter level talent needs to be among them. With all the great work we've put into forging the best secondary in the league, I don't see EDC taking his foot off the gas".

 

Ultimately I was wrong, and EDC didn't prioritize the position all that much. We used a 7th on Geno Stone, did the obvious and extended Cark, retained Levine for STs and that was it. Now we find the team in a less than ideal spot with the position. Going forward it will need some significant investment. We can't stop in our pursuit of a near flawless DB core.

I would still have picked Antoine Winfield jr.

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Wow, was not expecting this when I went to sleep last night. 

There must have been something to JLCs leadership council report, or the team had done well to obscure all the other events that led to the Chuck Clark incident and ET's response being the final straw. 

But either way, I trust Harbaugh and EDC if they believe that this is the right path to take, even if it does leave a big hole in the secondary for this season

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Posted (edited)

In times of great doubt, lean on hyperbolic hype- it's the only way.

 

Edited by DreamKid
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Am I missing something here.  Why did they do this?  Just to save money?  Sure the fight/argument thing but that always happens.  Because Elliott at safety is not Earl Thomas who is arguably a Hall of Famer.  I thought Clark was kind of weak last year, now they are crazy weak at safety without Thomas.  Geno Stone has upside but is more a box safety and not a safety with great range like Thomas.

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5 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Because Elliott at safety is not Earl Thomas who is arguably a Hall of Famer.

Nah, DeShon is way better already.

5 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I thought Clark was kind of weak last year, now they are crazy weak at safety without Thomas.

That's why we extended Chuck Clark, to show the roster that even if you have a down year- we still believe in you.

6 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Geno Stone has upside but is more a box safety and not a safety with great range like Thomas.

Geno Stone is Luke Kuechly. Ask @PFF_Mike on twitter, he'll fill you in.

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Just now, DreamKid said:

Nah, DeShon is way better already.

That's why we extended Chuck Clark, to show the roster that even if you have a down year- we still believe in you.

Geno Stone is Luke Kuechly. Ask @PFF_Mike on twitter, he'll fill you in.

That guy is obviously high when he said that one or just wants worthless twitter attention.  Either people that love it 'Raven's fans or Iowa fans' or people that hate that comparison, 'everyone else' .

 

Geno is an average safety prospect with good toughness, Earl Thomas is an all time safety and one of the best to play the position over the past ten years.  Clearly they save money which is great but to lose a leader on the D and replace him with very unproven players is not the best idea.  But since there could easily not even be a season I guess who cares.  

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20 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Am I missing something here.  Why did they do this?  Just to save money?  Sure the fight/argument thing but that always happens.  Because Elliott at safety is not Earl Thomas who is arguably a Hall of Famer.  I thought Clark was kind of weak last year, now they are crazy weak at safety without Thomas.  Geno Stone has upside but is more a box safety and not a safety with great range like Thomas.

A few things to point out here.

  1. This is the result of A LOT of internal/team issues that have been kept under wraps and finally boiled over. Basically Thomas has had a rift with teammates/the team since last year (the specifics have been reported on elsewhere) and this fight was just the culmination of all of that.
  2. Earl Thomas, in our scheme, is replaceable. There's nothing he did from a role standpoint that can't be replicated by another person. We don't need a "true" FS because we don't play that type of scheme. Thomas and Clark were basically "hybrid" safeties, and that's the scheme we run. It can be replicated by either Deshon Elliott or Geno Stone, or even Jimmy Smith or Brandon Carr. Can they do it at the level of Earl Thomas? Probably not, but we can replace him. This isn't a situation like in Seattle where Earl Thomas played a deep 3rd role and you need a guy with that kind of range to replace him.
  3. Chuck Clark was a solid starting SS last year, and not only that but he solidified our communication issues we were having since the departure of CJ Mosley.
  4. The hype around Geno Stone is just us trying to cope with the loss of the best FS in the NFL lol

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i think we'll be fine but i don't trust deshon eliott or geno. for every late round safety like chuck clark theres a lot more omar browns who was supposed to be baby ed reed in practice/preseason. id like to bring brandon carr back i think he took some snaps at safety when he was here. anyone but tony jefferson who the leadershop council is vouching for. i still think it's a joke that matt judon the penalty machine and anthony levine who barely gets any snaps on defense are the ravens leaders.

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Is Matt Judon actually on the leadership council? Is it even public knowledge who is?

Remember that stupid "The Council" thing that consisted of Jefferson, Judon, Peanut, and Levine last year isn't the actual leadership council.

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Tyus Bowser worked out with Earl Thomas during the offseason. I wonder if he noticed any weird/troubling things and filled in the rest of the team about it?

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1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

 

 

Well this actually makes me feel for Thomas here. Though it still doesn’t defend the missing meetings and everything.

Oh well. Too much he said, she said. All that matters is he’s no longer on the team and hopefully the team has processes in place to further improve the lineup.

Clowney would get me hyped. I think he’d be a great fit within our defensive system. It would IMO lead him to getting more sacks. His run stopping ability would also be quite fierce. I mean with Clowney, Campbell, Williams, and Wolfe... we’d be almost impossible to run on.

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4 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Though it still doesn’t defend the missing meetings and everything.

Seems like he started in a good place(If the information in that is accurate), but it didn't take long for personal and professional issues to become the norm in his life. 

6 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Clowney would get me hyped. I think he’d be a great fit within our defensive system. It would IMO lead him to getting more sacks. His run stopping ability would also be quite fierce. I mean with Clowney, Campbell, Williams, and Wolfe... we’d be almost impossible to run on.

Clowney can rush as an OLB, End, or from the defensive interior. Commands doubles. Super versatile chess piece, and as you said a great fit. Opens up so many combinations for us.

Would be sick if we brought him in. 

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5 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Am I missing something here.  Why did they do this?  Just to save money?  Sure the fight/argument thing but that always happens.  Because Elliott at safety is not Earl Thomas who is arguably a Hall of Famer.  I thought Clark was kind of weak last year, now they are crazy weak at safety without Thomas.  Geno Stone has upside but is more a box safety and not a safety with great range like Thomas.

1. As more stories come it, it just seems like a divide in personalities and roster chemistry and Earl crossed a line. Great player, got better during the season. People like to bring up the Nick Chubb run and the Derrick Henry stiff arm, but there are plenty of game clips on twitter that shows Earl Thomas doing Earl Thomas things, taking away two passing options on a single play and then finally making the tackle on a third wide receiver, Earl Thomas covering over the top taking away targets downfield and then turn to cover another receiver. Great impact, which will be very difficult to replicate.

2. Clark played great. Its not just a fan base talking up the next guy. When Clark came in after Tony Jefferson went out with injury, he got the green dot and our defense changed for the better. He his a great communicator, great open field tackler, versatile. Just not a known commodity yet due to his draft status as a 6th round pick. He will have to show he can be a trusted starter, but as already mentioned, the FO trusted him enough to give him a new contract after just a few starts.

3. Geno Stone had great tape and some analytics loved him. His physical limitations are obvious and he is unproven, so it is a wait and see. I think most Ravens fans agree with this.

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I also wonder what the process was like. DMB mentioned the team decided to send him home, maybe to make sure he didn't get injured so he could be traded.

I don't know about cap implications, but it still surprised me that it was not possible to get a trade in place and get some compensation for Thomas.

While the stories about missing meetings, cheating on his GF being lucky Pierre in a threesome with a woman and his brother is weird, and the punch thrown in TC is a bad look and a bad sell, his play last year was good to great and he showed improvement while getting to know the system. Any team with some cap room should be interested in ET to man that single high centerfielder role for a very small compensation.

We rolled the dice, and I am surprised other teams didn't do the same for a player with his ability.

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