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"New" Chicago Defense


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1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

He's a guy that hasn't done very well at 2-gapping and has played 16 games only once. His only real success has come in one gap systems, like what Flores ran last year. He was able to own a gap but was doing it more as a DE in MIA. 

 

So as a 2-gap NT I'm not counting on much from him. 

 

If we are 1 gapping more then I would be far more comfortable with Jenkins being the primary depth. But we need meat in the middle to keep Smith and DT free to roam. Jenkins never seemed to play up to his size to me. 

So we play less two gap fronts.  Or Nichols sees more time playing at NT.  And where does it say Jenkins struggles playing a zero two-gap NT position?  Whose opinion is that?

Let's be clear on two things. 1) No one on our roster can adequately replace Eddie Goldman, and 2) We work around that with the talent we have.

Given our shift into more of a Hybrid 3-4 and Nickel 4-3 schemes we may have it covered better than we think.

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13 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

Yup.  Can someone refresh my memory; when did the Bears go to 3/4 and was it before or after Floyd?

After. Floyd was drafted in 2016 and they switched over to a 3-4 in 2015 when they hired they hired Fangio who implemented the system.

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14 minutes ago, soulman said:

So we play less two gap fronts.  Or Nichols sees more time playing at NT.  And where does it say Jenkins struggles playing a zero two-gap NT position?  Whose opinion is that?

Let's be clear on two things. 1) No one on our roster can adequately replace Eddie Goldman, and 2) We work around that with the talent we have.

Given our shift into more of a Hybrid 3-4 and Nickel 4-3 schemes we may have it covered better than we think.

The trouble with is (and what I think @Sugashane is getting and correct me if wrong ) that if you start leaning more towards a one-gap system then you are essentially making this a 4 front look which doesn't fit with the idea of sticking with a 3-4 hybrid and your essentially making a major change just to build around a single player's strength instead of sticking with the original plan and adapting to it by finding a better fit. 

Not having Goldman is huge. I think we all agree. But to change the direction of the entire defense just to fit a single player this late in the process would cause chaos and end up with devastating results, IMO.

You also have to factor in this as well. Our depth at ILB is already pretty weak. So If we went with a more original 4 front just to compensate for Jenkins then that means less snaps where Mack and Quinn can help control the edges on short passing to RB's (flares, screens, etc--the same thing that ate us up last year).  This would be putting ALOT of pressure on Trevathan and Roquan. So what happens if either them get injured? Health wise, Smith I ain't worried about. But Trevathan....I expect ~10 games at this point.  

 

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3 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

The trouble with is (and what I think @Sugashane is getting and correct me if wrong ) that if you start leaning more towards a one-gap system then you are essentially making this a 4 front look which doesn't fit with the idea of sticking with a 3-4 hybrid and your essentially making a major change just to build around a single player's strength instead of sticking with the original plan and adapting to it by finding a better fit. 

Not having Goldman is huge. I think we all agree. But to change the direction of the entire defense just to fit a single player this late in the process would cause chaos and end up with devastating results, IMO.

You also have to factor in this as well. Our depth at ILB is already pretty weak. So If we went with a more original 4 front just to compensate for Jenkins then that means less snaps where Mack and Quinn can help control the edges on short passing to RB's (flares, screens, etc--the same thing that ate us up last year).  This would be putting ALOT of pressure on Trevathan and Roquan. So what happens if either them get injured? Health wise, Smith I ain't worried about. But Trevathan....I expect ~10 games at this point.  

 

Exactly. Pagano did this last year too when he put EJax more in the box and had HHCD roam and play deep more. He's already compensated for a lesser player by putting one of his best guys in a weaker position basically full time. I hope  he doesn't make the same mistake this year. 

 

4 hours ago, soulman said:

So we play less two gap fronts.  Or Nichols sees more time playing at NT.  And where does it say Jenkins struggles playing a zero two-gap NT position?  Whose opinion is that?

Let's be clear on two things. 1) No one on our roster can adequately replace Eddie Goldman, and 2) We work around that with the talent we have.

Given our shift into more of a Hybrid 3-4 and Nickel 4-3 schemes we may have it covered better than we think.

So we try to make Smith and DT responsible more for shutting down a gap each too? Neither is well known for being able to fight off blocks, that's why they fit as 3-4 ILBs in this system so well, because of the athleticism to go sideline to sideline to make plays and how well they benefit deok having 2-gapping DL in front of them trying to keep them clean. 

Jenkins was not very good when asked to that exact role his first time in Chicago, that's why. Where is the evidence he has played well in that role? He was almost purely a DE in MIA and this is the first time he has made over $1mil in a year iirc. Clearly he isn't in much demand around the league. 

That's not saying he cant be decent depth, but while no one can replace Goldman we have to find a way to keep our ILBs relatively clean. I'm not sure there's any scenario where he is more than a rotational piece and Nichols may not fare much better in that role. I have more confidence in Nichols than Jenkins though. 

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Guys, I'm not gonna sit here and try to predict what Pagano may or may not do or how often we line up in what front.  I posted long ago following the Quinn signing that we could easily see more 4-3 fronts if only because we already were seeing more of them with Goldman being subbed for on some passing downs.  Adding Quinn who is far more a hand in the dirt DE was an indication of that.

I get the keep the blockers off Smith and DT thing and I'll trust Pagano to worry about how to adjust for that.  Nichols is nearly as big as Goldman and it looks like he's the one getting first team reps.  Whether or not they plan to play him as a zero gap NT or not no one really knows.  We might assume he will at times but from the trends we're seeing probably less so than we were 2-3 years ago.

Do you guys recall when we had Traylor and Washington as DTs protecting Urlacher?  That was under Jauron.  Then along comes Lovie and our DL gets smaller and lighter and we begin attacking gaps forcing OLs to stop our penetration.  Urlacher and Briggs weren't being protected by two 350lb DTs and we had top 5 defenses in 2005-2006 without that kind of protection for them.

No one is gonna fully replace what Goldman could do so we work around it with others whom we scheme in ways that will work.  Even without Eddie Goldman we can still have a top 5 defense if we scheme well and players do their job.  Beyond this I'm not gonna worry about it unless it becomes something to worry about.

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On 8/25/2020 at 11:26 PM, JAF-N72EX said:

After. Floyd was drafted in 2016 and they switched over to a 3-4 in 2015 when they hired they hired Fangio who implemented the system.

And even with Vic Fangio his was more of a Hybrid 3-4 where one DL often plays as a 3 tech DT.  For us that would typically be Hicks but Nichols has also shown he can work that gap as well.  IMHO much of our success replacing Goldman is gonna be on Nichols shoulders.

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On 9/2/2020 at 2:27 PM, Damikeeeee said:

Does Eddie Goldman go against the cap since he decided to quit on the team. Sorry to hear about that asthma. Bum. 

You can GTFO with that "quit on the team" crap, but to answer your question, no, he does not count against the cap. His contract tolls to next year and runs an additional year past its original end year.

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