LuckIsGOAT Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Which D is better? Tampa 2: DL - Dwight Freeny, Booger McFarland, Warren Sapp, Julius Peppers LB - Lance Briggs, Brian Urlacher, Derrick Brooks DB - Ronde Barber, Bob Sanders, John Lynch, Charles Tillman Wade Phillips: DL - Bruce Smith, Ted Washington, Aaron Donald LB - Von Miller, Donnie Edwards, Karl Mecklenburg, Demarcus Ware DB - Terrance Newman, Steve Atwater, Dennis Smith, Aqib Talib Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbuff Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Bruce Smith and Aaron Donald on the same D Line is enough to put the Phillips side over the top. That is just lethal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Bruce Smith, Aaron Donald, with Von Miller also hunting the QB... OUCH! Ware is the 5th pass rusher and he is a 146 career sack guy who had 25 sacks in 41 games as a 32-34 year old in the Phillips D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Hard to find a better D unit outside of Buddy Ryan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckIsGOAT Posted August 30, 2020 Author Share Posted August 30, 2020 DBs 5 hours ago, SkippyX said: Bruce Smith, Aaron Donald, with Von Miller also hunting the QB... OUCH! Ware is the 5th pass rusher and he is a 146 career sack guy who had 25 sacks in 41 games as a 32-34 year old in the Phillips D. Ware played for Phillips in his prime when Phillips was HC of the Cowboys. To play Devils advocate for Tampa 2 is their a bigger difference in pass rushers: Smith/Miller/Ware/Donald vs Sapp/Freeny/Peppers Or at corner Barber/Tillman vs Talib/Newman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 10 hours ago, LuckIsGOAT said: DBs Ware played for Phillips in his prime when Phillips was HC of the Cowboys. To play Devils advocate for Tampa 2 is their a bigger difference in pass rushers: Smith/Miller/Ware/Donald vs Sapp/Freeny/Peppers Or at corner Barber/Tillman vs Talib/Newman. Newman was a baller CB even into his later 30s. Dudes slept on because he didn’t have the INT numbers IIRC. Never truly elite besides a season or 2! But he was solid af. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 11 hours ago, LuckIsGOAT said: DBs Ware played for Phillips in his prime when Phillips was HC of the Cowboys. To play Devils advocate for Tampa 2 is their a bigger difference in pass rushers: Smith/Miller/Ware/Donald vs Sapp/Freeny/Peppers Those Tampa 2 guys averaged 0.55 sacks per game played The Phillips guys averaged 0.66 (and there are 4 of them instead of 3) Another way to say that is the Phillips guys got 20% more sacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckIsGOAT Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 12 hours ago, SkippyX said: Those Tampa 2 guys averaged 0.55 sacks per game played The Phillips guys averaged 0.66 (and there are 4 of them instead of 3) Another way to say that is the Phillips guys got 20% more sacks. But is that a greater difference than at CB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 On 8/27/2020 at 9:13 PM, bigbadbuff said: Bruce Smith and Aaron Donald on the same D Line is enough to put the Phillips side over the top. That is just lethal And they left JJ Watt at home... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 On 8/31/2020 at 4:00 PM, ET80 said: And they left JJ Watt at home... I forgot Phillips was here for JJ's first 3 years. Its hard to see anything but BOB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) On 8/31/2020 at 2:47 AM, LuckIsGOAT said: But is that a greater difference than at CB? All 4 guys were very good corners so there is not much advantage there. Newman was in the pro bowl 2x in 4 years with Phillips Talib was in the pro bowl 4 times in 5 years with Phillips (missed it with the Rams in 2018) Ronde 5 times in 16 years Peanut 2 times in 12 years BTW, this is all pointless... Wade Phillips was the Philadelphia Eagles DC from 1986-1988 Add Reggie White to that D-Line. Reggie had 50 sacks in 44 games with Phillips as DC. He had 21 sacks in 12 games in 1987 alone You can decide what to do with a rookie Eric Allen in 1988 who went on to 6 Pro Bowls and had 54 interceptions. Jerome Brown could be in the mix as well. He even coached Seth Joyner at LB for 3 years who later went to 3 pro bowls and was the 1991 DPOY. We can skip all three of them but WOW, Phillips has coached some damn good football players. FYI Those 4 along with Clyde Simmons, Byron Evans, Andre Waters, Wes Hopkins, Mike Golic, and Mike Pitts went on to be the probably the most dominant D in that 1991 season. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2014/historical-dvoa-estimates The only pieces that were not there with Phillips were Ben Smith, Jessie Small, Otis Smith, and William Thomas. You can watch the 1991 House of Pain game on Youtube to see what they did to the Run and Shoot Oilers. Jerome Brown had one of the top 20 sports quotes of all time after that game "They brought the house and we brought the pain!" If you like defensive football then that should be a treat. Edited September 3, 2020 by SkippyX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckIsGOAT Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, SkippyX said: All 4 guys were very good corners so there is not much advantage there. Newman was in the pro bowl 2x in 4 years with Phillips Talib was in the pro bowl 4 times in 5 years with Phillips (missed it with the Rams in 2018) Ronde 5 times in 16 years Peanut 2 times in 12 years BTW, this is all pointless... Wade Phillips was the Philadelphia Eagles DC from 1986-1988 Add Reggie White to that D-Line. Reggie had 50 sacks in 44 games with Phillips as DC. He had 21 sacks in 12 games in 1987 alone You can decide what to do with a rookie Eric Allen in 1988 who went on to 6 Pro Bowls and had 54 interceptions. Jerome Brown could be in the mix as well. He even coached Seth Joyner at LB for 3 years who later went to 3 pro bowls and was the 1991 DPOY. We can skip all three of them but WOW, Phillips has coached some damn good football players. FYI Those 4 along with Clyde Simmons, Byron Evans, Andre Waters, Wes Hopkins, Mike Golic, and Mike Pitts went on to be the probably the most dominant D in that 1991 season. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2014/historical-dvoa-estimates The only pieces that were not there with Phillips were Ben Smith, Jessie Small, Otis Smith, and William Thomas. You can watch the 1991 House of Pain game on Youtube to see what they did to the Run and Shoot Oilers. Jerome Brown had one of the top 20 sports quotes of all time after that game "They brought the house and we brought the pain!" If you like defensive football then that should be a treat. Its only 1990-present. But With Donald and Bruce Smith, Reggie White would be redundant anyway just like JJ Watt. John Randle is redundant for the Tampa 2 team Regardless of probowls I think there is definitely a gap between Barber/Tillman and Newman/Talib the question is is it a bigger gap than the pass rushers? Edited September 3, 2020 by LuckIsGOAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 You play 4 guys on the line with Reggie, or Donald rides the bench, or you play Reggie at NT and he dominates there also. The man was like a grizzly bear on the field. He had 137 sacks in his first 137 games. He was probably the best run defender in the NFL as well. A career 0.85 sacks per game compared to the 0.66 for the other Phillips guys of the 0.55 of the Tampa guys who are scrubs compared to Reggie. Pass rushers are 1 and 1A Reggie and LT (0.79 per game)* and then no one else is even close. Bruce Smith is a distant 3rd at 0.72 And no, the Tampa corners are not that much better than the Phillips corners. If you just go by sacks the Phillips front 7 is 20% better I hated Talib's guts but he was crazy good in Denver. I'd also go Atwater over Lynch (its close, but Atwater wins) Smith over Sanders is obvious. Sanders basically had a 2 year career with 6 extra injury years. Hes's got 6 career picks. He was amazing for 4 games in the 2006 playoffs but he's the worst player on these teams by far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Give me the Wade baby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckIsGOAT Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 9 hours ago, SkippyX said: Smith over Sanders is obvious. Sanders basically had a 2 year career with 6 extra injury years. Hes's got 6 career picks. He was amazing for 4 games in the 2006 playoffs but he's the worst player on these teams by far. Smith over Sanders is a joke. Longevity is irrelevant its an all star team. In his 2 seasons Sanders was a 1st team All Pro and defensive player of the year. Bob Sanders is proven one of the most impactful football players ever. Smith never even made 2nd team all pro. If anything Sanders is neck and neck with Brooks B.Smith and Donald as the best player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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