jimkelly02 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: McMillan had PFF's 7th highest grade in run defense of any LB over the past two seasons. And he did that with two years of very poor DLine In front of him, which makes it even more impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: My only concern is that if Hankins were to get hurt we don't really have another run stuffing DT on the roster. But our interior DL rotation should be pretty solid between Hankins/Collins/Hurst/Ferrell. I really do think we could add NT, RB on the fly after cut day. Both guys wouldn't make or break the season but depth pieces. Guys like Anthony Rush and decent RBs get cut every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 6 hours ago, Darbsk said: I agree with pretty much all the post but this point does raise some issues. I) If Collins plays really well and we want to keep him he would likely be significantly more expensive to lock up medium to long term than he would have before the 'prove it' season as he's just proven it! It's not a terrible problem to have and is probably our best case. II) If Collins plays well but we decide we need to move on and just replace his production with another 'value' signing I don't think that's going to be as easy as is implied. Assuming he 'balls out' then we'd be looking for a very good player and not just a spot starter and particularly cheap ones dont grow on trees. We have to hope a young guy with big potential or a vet that has something to prove wants to sign a 'prove it' deal or if we're going to pay a big ticket FA then we might aswell pay the young Collins who's just proved he can flourish in our system. III) If Collins only plays at an average level or poor level then he'll be easy to move on from and easy to replace his production. That of course would be detrimental to our season so nobody is really hoping for that! Obviously the best thing will be if he balls out but will resign for a reasonable contract but that seems more in hope than expectation. Its not my intention to sound too critical but the better his production the harder it will be to replace easily. Let’s just set the parameters of what’s possible for Collins: 1. He’s not going to play so well he’s going to be asking for 15+M per year. At absolutely best case scenario where I’m completely!!! wrong about him he’s going to be in the Javon Hargrove range of 13M APY. If Collins plays so well that his cost is troublesome for us we can draft a DT in round 1 (Baremore, Wilson) or sign someone else. There’s some good DT FAs in 2021. I have zero worry that Collins will be lost in FA next year and we won’t find someone better. I’ve watched way too much of his tape to worry about losing him. Not to mention he was almost an afterthought signing this year. When we signed him everyone was like “oh that’s a nice surprising addition... he should add to the pass rush and strengthen the DL” and no one was saying “OMG only 1 year what will we do in the future?”. Zero games have been played since then and somehow the hype train has changed the discussion to fear we won’t resign him and we’ll struggle at DT. Mayock knows Collins’ talent level and he got a deal equivalent to it. He’s not this amazing talent we should be afraid to lose. He’s a replacement level starter. You upgrade from guys like him when your a rising team. There’s a reason he could only get 1yr, 6M. He even said so in an interview where he said “i didn’t get the offers i thought I would so I had to settle for 1 year and to take the opportunity to prove my worth”. Quentin Jefferson got a larger APY and for more years! Collins was in the same market as Andrew Billings, Danny Shelton, Nick Williams, Quentin Jefferson. That’s the level of player Collins is. How did we get to the point in this discussion where we are afraid he’ll play so well we can’t resign him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 I’ve changed my official stance to be “we’re in good enough shape on defense that we could wait til after week 1 (veteran deals aren’t guaranteed) to sign a DT if needed or pick up some players that got waived at the cut deadline.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 29 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said: Let’s just set the parameters of what’s possible for Collins: 1. He’s not going to play so well he’s going to be asking for 15+M per year. At absolutely best case scenario where I’m completely!!! wrong about him he’s going to be in the Javon Hargrove range of 13M APY. If Collins plays so well that his cost is troublesome for us we can draft a DT in round 1 (Baremore, Wilson) or sign someone else. There’s some good DT FAs in 2021. I have zero worry that Collins will be lost in FA next year and we won’t find someone better. I’ve watched way too much of his tape to worry about losing him. Not to mention he was almost an afterthought signing this year. When we signed him everyone was like “oh that’s a nice surprising addition... he should add to the pass rush and strengthen the DL” and no one was saying “OMG only 1 year what will we do in the future?”. Zero games have been played since then and somehow the hype train has changed the discussion to fear we won’t resign him and we’ll struggle at DT. Mayock knows Collins’ talent level and he got a deal equivalent to it. He’s not this amazing talent we should be afraid to lose. He’s a replacement level starter. You upgrade from guys like him when your a rising team. There’s a reason he could only get 1yr, 6M. He even said so in an interview where he said “i didn’t get the offers i thought I would so I had to settle for 1 year and to take the opportunity to prove my worth”. Quentin Jefferson got a larger APY and for more years! Collins was in the same market as Andrew Billings, Danny Shelton, Nick Williams, Quentin Jefferson. That’s the level of player Collins is. How did we get to the point in this discussion where we are afraid he’ll play so well we can’t resign him? I think you missed my point a little, I'm quite in agreement with you (maybe a little bit more optimistic on his impact) that he's not Geno Atkins and if he plays average to ok he'll be easily replaceable. The confusion is I think where you said if he 'balls out' and I took that to mean he had 10 sacks or was a unanimous Pro Bowler or something then we obviously wouldn't be able to just pick up a guy in FA for cheap who could replicate that and after that he'd want to (and deserve to) get paid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: I doubt he was going to sign a long term deal anywhere, he wanted to go somewhere he could ball out and then get a long term extension. I'd gladly pay him though with a big year. He's only 25 years old and is supposedly in the best shape of his life, down from 325 to 302 pounds. Maybe you're right but it seems like risky business that a guy would take 1yr/6m rather than a longer deal with more guarantee, especially with injury. Good that he's backing himself I guess but an awful lot can go wrong with that plan. Hopefully he gives us a nice problem to have after posting 10 sacks and creating havoc 😀😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said: I’ve changed my official stance to be “we’re in good enough shape on defense that we could wait til after week 1 (veteran deals aren’t guaranteed) to sign a DT if needed or pick up some players that got waived at the cut deadline.” Welcome aboard, some of us have been saying that for a while now 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Darbsk said: Maybe you're right but it seems like risky business that a guy would take 1yr/6m rather than a longer deal with more guarantee, especially with injury. Good that he's backing himself I guess but an awful lot can go wrong with that plan. Hopefully he gives us a nice problem to have after posting 10 sacks and creating havoc 😀😀 Quote “You bet on yourself,” Collins said. “I’ve got full confidence in me. I know what I’m capable of. The offers that came to the table weren’t worthy of my abilities, I believe. I think the one-year was the best option to go out and earn more.” https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/08/20/if-raiders-maliek-collins-is-so-good-why-is-he-the-nfls-38th-highest-paid-defensive-tackle/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 make or break year for both Hurst and Collins.. I'm ready to see if one or both can step up. This is a make or break year for Hurst in a sense, is he just a back up rotation piece or can he be a impact starter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Very happy with this move. He was a baller at OSU and I was shocked when he didn't get drafted in the 1st round that year. Was also upset we didn't get him in the 2nd that year, Phins grabbed him 2 picks before we took Obi, ugh. Haven't kept up with him as much in the pros, but he's a solid starting ILB and I'm surprised they let him go. I'm guessing it's mainly because he's a typical 4-3 backer and they've switched to a 3-4 there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 21 hours ago, Darbsk said: The confusion is I think where you said if he 'balls out' and I took that to mean he had 10 sacks or was a unanimous Pro Bowler or something then we obviously wouldn't be able to just pick up a guy in FA for cheap who could replicate that and after that he'd want to (and deserve to) get paid! I don’t think 10 sacks and a PB are in the realm of realistic Possibilities for Collins. If he does that I’ll add a tagline admitting I’m an idiot. I’d be absolutely head over heals if he simply gave us 7 sacks and was a solid dependable run defender. Yes you are right if he DID play even near PB level there’s no way we’re going to replace that level of play on a budget contract. No one is so lucky as to sign a DT for 1y,6M... he goes to PB... hits UFA... is replaced by another DT FA on another budget Contract.... lightning don’t strike 2x like that. But even if he plays not ProBowl level but proves to be a really good starter for the long term.... there will be equal or better FAs also available in FA and we can always draft a DT in round 1. I just think Collins lack of length and run defense will always be a Very limiting factor for him. In ‘21 we should be in position to add a 2-3 of the last pieces to this team to be contenders and DT is definitely one of them. We’ll have enough money to get a premier DT in FA if we like what’s there or we can draft Baremore/ Wilson in round 1. There will certainly be options to upgrade from Collins and we have the assets to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 31 minutes ago, true2form said: Very happy with this move. He was a baller at OSU and I was shocked when he didn't get drafted in the 1st round that year. Was also upset we didn't get him in the 2nd that year, Phins grabbed him 2 picks before we took Obi, ugh. Haven't kept up with him as much in the pros, but he's a solid starting ILB and I'm surprised they let him go. I'm guessing it's mainly because he's a typical 4-3 backer and they've switched to a 3-4 there. That’s funny you said that about Obi. I watched a Dolphins / McMillian draft video and the fans reallly really wanted Obi To be the pick.... but said hey at least we got McMillian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I watched 3 ‘18 games and 3 ‘19 game of McMillian: He didn’t see much pass coverage in ‘19. Baker took over that role from him. He’s a very reliable run defender. Gets of blocks fast!!, very technically sound in his gap assignments, fills gaps and makes RBs make cutbacks. His vision and understand of the run game is exceptional. He sees things happening pre-snap. If you minimize his coverage responsibilities and let him just play the run or blitz and you’ve got a play maker. From what I’ve seen he’s def not a playmaker or cover guy vs the pass, but he’s not horrible either. He can get good depth on drops and can come up and tackle immediately if a pass is allowed in front of him. I think part of his failures in the passing game where how he was used... plus he has limitations. He did seem better in ‘19. I think they wrote him off too quickly. I have some clip cut ups I can try and edit and post if anyone wants. I just gotta figure out how to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said: From what I’ve seen he’s def not a playmaker or cover guy vs the pass, but he’s not horrible either. He can get good depth on drops and can come up and tackle immediately if a pass is allowed in front of him. I think part of his failures in the passing game where how he was used... plus he has limitations. He did seem better in ‘19. I think they wrote him off too quickly. The biggest concern with him coming out of college was that he struggled in coverage and that has range true in the NFL as well. Either way though it's not a huge concern because he's not going to be asked to be a playmaker in coverage here. We needed a thumping LB and he should be a significant upgrade over Lee in that role for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, NYRaider said: The biggest concern with him coming out of college was that he struggled in coverage and that has range true in the NFL as well. Either way though it's not a huge concern because he's not going to be asked to be a playmaker in coverage here. We needed a thumping LB and he should be a significant upgrade over Lee in that role for us. Exactly. He’s here to stuff the run. And if he gets stuck having to cover on occasion he really isn’t as bad as it’s been made out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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