What do we do long term at QB?

[Heinz D.]

21 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Anyone seen Brock Purdy?

Yup. Not a finished product as of the end of last season, but looks to have what it takes, overall. Best moments are VERY impressive. Biggest dig on him right now (from NFL types) is, of course, his size. He's only 6'0. 

[beardown3231]

27 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Yup. Not a finished product as of the end of last season, but looks to have what it takes, overall. Best moments are VERY impressive. Biggest dig on him right now (from NFL types) is, of course, his size. He's only 6'0. 

And naturally because of that size, everyone and their mother will compare him to Russell Wilson. He does make some extremely athletic and impressive plays, but that's a lazy comparison just due to size

[Sugashane]

Things I like about Lance:

- NDSU runs a pro offense schemes, he takes snaps under center

- He makes adjustments at the line (well usually in shotgun but you know what I mean). 

- Plus athlete, his rushing stats are exaggerated due to lower competition but he is Watson-level athletic as a comp IMO. Maybe better straight-line speed

- Accurate, specifically by how often he hits people right in stride. (granted, he often is throwing to wide open guys due to talent around)

- Lot of RPO use and can rip it after making a read. Can be used to add wrinkles to the offense. 

 

 

That being said there are negatives

- Gets dead feet

- Often bails unnecessarily (granted he is one of the best athletes on the field at that level so it works out well)

- LITTLE EXPERIENCE - Not only does he have little experience in game totals but also in passing attempts. This was an issue with Tru as well. Mahomes had more attempts in two seperate seasons than Tru had in his college career. Hell it took Trubisky his entire college career and two full seasons in Chicago (plus one 2019 game) just to have as many passing attempts as Mahomes had in his college career. Lance having under 300 attempts AND we have the 2020 season collapsing? Yuck. 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Sugashane

[Heinz D.]

32 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

And naturally because of that size, everyone and their mother will compare him to Russell Wilson. He does make some extremely athletic and impressive plays, but that's a lazy comparison just due to size

Agreed. He's not much like Wilson, as a player, at all. He is a good scrambler, but not a great one, and that aspect of his game isn't nearly as pronounced (or maybe ingrained?) as Wilson's anyway. Wilson has above average arm strength, I'd rate Purdy's as "strong". Purdy seems more than willing to make great plays from the pocket, or some semblance of a pocket. 

Eek. Now I'm stumped. Who is Purdy "like"? Favre? I dunno. Comparisons of that nature are kind of...off, anyway. Maybe I'll call him the first Brock Purdy, and leave it at that. 

[WindyCity]

After the Mitch experience I assume we will be more focused on field processing and intelligence than athletic traits.

[soulman]

15 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

He'll end up being far more accurate than Newton though, wouldn't you say? 

Of course the choice might depend on whether Nagy is still coach and we're still sticking with his variety of the "Andy Reid" offense. There are good options no matter what the situation, though. 

I don't know much about Trey Lance, who keeps popping up as the third best prospect (as things stand right now, of course). I'll have to watch more of his "tape". I think Jamie Newman is probably overrated at the moment, and Kyle Trask and Brock Purdy are underrated. Either of those last two kids could make a big jump. 

Unless we regress again and even farther I'd bet on an extension for Nagy and his staff before I'd bet on his being let go.

What we have to consider is Mitch was not Nagy's pick yet he was expected to teach him his offense and make a franchise QB out of him.  Obviously that hasn't happened but is the lack of success on Nagy's shoulders or Mitch's?  So we hire "Flip" whose reputation as a QB coach is about as good as anyone we can get.  If Mitch still can't cut it now after 3 years in this offense under some very good coaching then I'd say it's 99% on Mitch.  He's not who we thought he could be and we move on.

Having Foles in house who has shown success in similar offenses in Philly and KC provides a bit of a test for Nagy.  It's kind of a proof of concept deal that if Foles surpasses Mitch, holds the #1spot, and the consistency and success of the offense improves we know it's not Nagy's schemes that are the problem.  It's Mitch. The next step at least in terms of my logic would be for Pace and Nagy to carefully review all of the 2021 rookie draftees and find the right guy for this offense.

IMHO having Nick as a #1 assures us of reasonably competent QB play that with our defense and other offensive talent can at least keep us competitive so we don't need to draft the most NFL ready rookie.  We need to draft the one who can best operate Nagy's offense and succeed in it.  I believe Pace will get to draft another QB and that Nagy and his offensive staff will play a huge role in helping to determine who that should be because all of their jobs will depend on being right this time.  JMHO

[topwop1]

On 8/30/2020 at 11:11 AM, WindyCity said:

If this camp has shown us anything, it is that neither Foles or Trubisky are someone we want to build around long term.

What do the Bears do get a long term QB in here?

Who are some names you like?

This camp hasn't shown us anything.  We already know that Foles is not someone you build around long term.  His career has shown us that he is nothing more than an average fill in starter/bridge QB.

Trubisky, IMO, should be given one last shot to show us all that he IS or IS NOT someone to build around long term.  Let him start the season and show us, otherwise I believe it would be unfair to just give up on him after all they invested there. 

Starting Foles week 1 does not really accomplish anything for this team in trying to right the QB position.  I'm surprised that some of you guys are actually leaning toward him being named the starter week 1, especially since Trubisky has had so much success vs Detroit in his career to this point.  I'll be shocked personally.

As for your question, if Tru doesn't work out then simply they need to keep drafting QB's with high potential until they find the right one because it's very rare that they will find one of those guys on the street in FA or via trade.

I don't really have any names at this point because I'm not there yet and we need to know who Bears will actually have a realistic chance at drafting if that's the case.

[Sugashane]

5 hours ago, topwop1 said:

As for your question, if Tru doesn't work out then simply they need to keep drafting QB's with high potential until they find the right one because it's very rare that they will find one of those guys on the street in FA or via trade.

I don't really have any names at this point because I'm not there yet and we need to know who Bears will actually have a realistic chance at drafting if that's the case.

I'm at the point of being willing to draft a QB with our first and then trade up to 30-32 to get another, then just make it an open competition from the start. Obviously if we draft one in the top 10 we shouldn't use one that high for a competitor for him, but if we are in the top 10 we likely had to make a significant trade to jump in. 

 

FWIW, I'm still more than happy to make the Wentz trade to get Lawrence or Fields, and wouldn't blink an eye to do it. This is doubly so with Pace because he seems to get good value from the mid rounds but usually has flopped in the 1st. 

[WindyCity]

4 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I'm at the point of being willing to draft a QB with our first and then trade up to 30-32 to get another, then just make it an open competition from the start. Obviously if we draft one in the top 10 we shouldn't use one that high for a competitor for him, but if we are in the top 10 we likely had to make a significant trade to jump in. 

 

FWIW, I'm still more than happy to make the Wentz trade to get Lawrence or Fields, and wouldn't blink an eye to do it. This is doubly so with Pace because he seems to get good value from the mid rounds but usually has flopped in the 1st. 

I wonder if he will have the job security to make a massive move 

[abstract_thought]

On 8/30/2020 at 10:13 PM, WindyCity said:

After the Mitch experience I assume we will be more focused on field processing and intelligence than athletic traits.

I'm hoping they don't go too far in that direction. Intelligence is obviously important but physical tools play a role in QB play.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

9 hours ago, WindyCity said:

I wonder if he will have the job security to make a massive move 

Not advocating for firing Pace, but if he isn't empowered to go up for a QB to fix their most glaring issue he's not really a GM and shouldn't be here. 

[soulman]

The view of Mitch I just posted isn't exactly what any of us should want to hear right now.  Granted it's been an odd offseason and one where what we may have hoped Lazor and Flip could have pulled off rebuilding Mitch has been hampered by the very limited amount of time they've had to work with him. But here's where I'm about to get off the Mitch bus.

If Nick Foles can come in with virtually no time spent in the offseason working out with his receivers and having to adapt himself to Nagy's offense in just a few weeks with no preseason game tune ups how is it that Mitch isn't far ahead of him in this competition?  It seems he never really has been and that as of Saturday's scrimmage Foles has completely caught up if not passed him.

Does Mitch need the adrenaline of a real game for it to finally click into places or is the truth more about him simply not being able to digest this offense and process as quickly as any top NFL QB should?  By now it's sure getting to look like the latter.  His arm and mobility still can make him dangerous at times but good DCs who can rob him of his options and confuse him will beat him like a drum just as GB did in that opener.

Nagy says he'll announce his starter next week which gives Mitch just a few more shots at pulling away but somehow that seems doubtful.

Despite that there is still a chance Pace will want him to have a shot at holding onto his #1 spot by stepping up in a regular season game.  It would seem that opponents like Detroit and NYG might allow for that since they aren't top tier teams but these are also not games we can afford to lose.  I'm not making any predictions or even choosing a favorite other than to say we've reached the end of simply "trying to get it right".  Now we have to do it.

[soulman]

Back on topic.

If Mitch fails to capture the #1 role this season we have little choice other than to re-draft a QB.  Who I have no idea.  I'm only aware of some names and their current ranking and little else.  How the college season plays out may or may not even tell us more of what we want to know and how our own season plays out will to a great degree govern what we're able to do.  It we have needs at both QB and OT and those need premium picks to acquire which takes a precedence?

My only thought right now is that despite his obvious physical skills Mitch isn't a quick thinker.  He may show a high football IQ in meetings and when not on the field but for whatever reason he just can't bring it on at will when the pressure is on.  Not consistently enough at any rate.  If he could get over that by now he surely should have yet he keeps repeating the same mistakes and still can't seem to nail down his issue with accuracy which is bizarre since it wasn't an issue when he was drafted.

If we need to redraft at QB then Nagy and his staff should be deeply involved and the goal should be to draft a QB who can run this offense.  For whatever reason it seems like Mitch is not the right match for it and that can happen when a GM drafts a QB before he has his HC and his systems in place.  Whatever Nagy needs from Mitch for whatever reason Mitch seems to be unable to give it to him as easily as Daniel could and it appears Foles probably can as well.  They lack Mitch's tools but they "fit".

So short term we would have Foles to lean on and hopefully he can be more consistent than Mitch has been or even Foles has been in the past.

Long term we need to find another rookie prospect whose also a better "fit" to develop this time hopefully with better coaching right from day one.

What else does any other NFL team do when faced with the same situation?  And I don't accept that Pace won't be around to do it or that he can't do it.  We weren't the only team who had Mitch as their #1 QB prospect.  About half the league did and everyone knew his lack of experience meant he would need time to develop.  Where I see a major problem is he never got the opportunity to do that from the bench.  Hopefully Foles proves to be far better than Glennon and our next QB prospect will get an opportunity work his way into learning the offense before it has to be "dumbed down" so he can run it.  This is about where I see us being right now.

[Sugashane]

17 hours ago, WindyCity said:

I wonder if he will have the job security to make a massive move 

It seems he has all the support from above but Lovie can get fired after a 10-6 season so I won't assume anything. Maybe they try another consultant to "ease the burden" or something, maybe Pace shows he is cutthroat and fires Nagy if the offense flops again. NFL is notorious for scapegoating.

 

My biggest question mark is the development of the new QB, and I have seen nothing to believe Nagy is the guy to do that so far. So if Tru shows some advancement do we re-sign Flip as an assistant HC so someone would have to have a seriously lucrative job offer to take him away? Position coaches can be poached now mid-contract but still have to have a promotion to do so IIRC. I'm 100% for overpaying coaches that develop talent, to me it is nothing short of an investment. With the QB being the biggest correlation to long-term success IMO I wouldn't hesitate to jump up to get my guy. If you don't have that conviction in yourself then WTF are you doing as a GM?