Week 1 Eagles Vs Washington (Insert name)

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, Troublez said:

Really? With everything that happened this off-season? If I were switching employers -  why would I possibly go to a team that:

1) Is owned by an individual implicated in a SLEW of negative non-football related press (leaving it there)

2) Whose ownership in general was considered volatile - as in might change

3) Whose best player refused to take the field and was ultimately traded for less than Market Value

4) Whose prior Executive Management was voted as "least trustworthy" by NFL Agents

5) Whose Home Crowds  - often dominated by opposing team fans - do not offer any competitive advantage

6) And finally, who finished 3-13 

 

@Skins212689 - I would love your input on your stance. I cant seem to view any positives from your perspective.

The Coach, the Dline, Mclaruin, Haskins. It's only 32 teams in the NFL. I want to Play in the NFL. 

They aren't selling their player's and basically Tanking like Miami and Jacksonville. 

Even when they lose, they pay their player's. They have seemed to get better at handling contracts but still Pay Player's and have a Roster that if coached up and some additional peices can look like the Browns did when John Dorsey took over. Again it's only 32 teams to play for in the NFL. Washington is not the worst. 

Washington is handling those Sexual Misconduct Allegations fairly well. Admit to the Problem and bring Positive Change to it. They have done their Part in cleaning up the Past. New President, New Coach, New Culture, and the NFL is handling the investigation to make sure things are being taken care of properly.

The Browns without Dorsey would still be the Worst Place to play in the NFL as they were for many Years. They better start Winning though. 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Skins212689

[offbyone]

13 hours ago, turtle28 said:

We don’t know if Rivera is going great every FA period the same, next year we could sign a few guys and hopefully keep our own too. There’s no way of knowing.

All we can go on is what we see.  What we have seen so far is tight purse strings and thereby no new talent.  There is no way around that and no way to rationalize it.  There is no such thing as an evaluation year in the nfl.  You don't take a year off in the nfl.

He took a big risk by not improving the talent this year.  If it works out, it will be luck, not cleverness. 

It is also foolish when it comes to cap management.  For instance, if Scherff ends up playing like he did when last healthy, he will be much more expensive now.  If those one year deal guys play well, same thing.  Oh wait we already cut them and lost that cap space.  The other issue is we have a young qb.  You need to race to improve the team and get long term contracts done before we need to pay the qb.  

Maybe next year he plays catch up with the extra cap space and evens out the situation.  I do like Rivera and I am trying to be open minded and give him a bit of a pass, but I will not act as if he did a good job improving our talent as much as he could this year for the short term or the long term.  I expect the better coaching to bring us more wins, but there is a limit to what coaching can do.  

[MikeT14]

17 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

 

 

 

[TheRealMcCoy]

On 9/2/2020 at 7:33 PM, TheRealMcCoy said:

I'll say we win 24-17. Game is tied going into the 2nd half like 14-14. 

I change my opinion......

Eagles 31 - Football Team 14

[HTTRDynasty]

11 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

I change my opinion......

Eagles 31 - Football Team 14

Ha, is JP moving to LT really worth an extra 10 point difference?

[Skins212689]

59 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

 

 

This says something about Haskins alone. His Team voted him Team Captain. That's Earned not given. Haskins did that alone with no Stats needed.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Skins212689

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, offbyone said:

All we can go on is what we see.  What we have seen so far is tight purse strings and thereby no new talent.  There is no way around that and no way to rationalize it.  There is no such thing as an evaluation year in the nfl.  You don't take a year off in the nfl.

He took a big risk by not improving the talent this year.  If it works out, it will be luck, not cleverness. 

It is also foolish when it comes to cap management.  For instance, if Scherff ends up playing like he did when last healthy, he will be much more expensive now.  If those one year deal guys play well, same thing.  Oh wait we already cut them and lost that cap space.  The other issue is we have a young qb.  You need to race to improve the team and get long term contracts done before we need to pay the qb.  

Maybe next year he plays catch up with the extra cap space and evens out the situation.  I do like Rivera and I am trying to be open minded and give him a bit of a pass, but I will not act as if he did a good job improving our talent as much as he could this year for the short term or the long term.  I expect the better coaching to bring us more wins, but there is a limit to what coaching can do.  

I have to disagree. Rivera played us the end of last year when Haskins started playing better, Guice played well that day, Terry & Sims did and so did our young defense.

A football mind like Rivera could see the potential in our young team, he played against it. He said it’s one of the reasons he came.

So, he wants to see what this young roster can do. You rebuild franchises through youth, not guys near 30 or over. The reason we’ve never actually rebuilt in 20 years is bc we continually do the later so we stay competitive winning 6-9 games most years but never better than that bc we don’t have enough young talented youth to build chemistry with for a decade.
 

Over the next few years we have a real chance to get that through the draft on top of what we have already.

Edited September 10, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

10 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I have to disagree. Rivera played us the end of last year when Haskins started playing better, Guice played well that day, Terry & Sims did and so did our young defense.

A football mind like Rivera could see the potential in our young team, he played against it. He said it’s one of the reasons he came.

So, he wants to see what this young roster can do. You rebuild franchises through youth, not guys near 30 or over. The reason we’ve never actually rebuilt in 20 years is bc we continually do the later so we stay competitive winning 7-9 games but never better than that bc we don’t have enough young talented youth. 
 

Over the next few years we have a real chance to get that through the draft on top of what we have already.

How long are you giving Rivera to take this Roster to the playoffs?

Does he get to start over at QB in the next 2 drafts if he choices? How would that not slow the process down?

How is Rivera repeating a off-season in Free Agency as he did this 1st year gonna help the Rebuild further? 

 

[Troublez]

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

The Coach, the Dline, Mclaruin, Haskins. It's only 32 teams in the NFL. I want to Play in the NFL. 

They aren't selling their player's and basically Tanking like Miami and Jacksonville. 

Even when they lose, they pay their player's. They have seemed to get better at handling contracts but still Pay Player's and have a Roster that if coached up and some additional peices can look like the Browns did when John Dorsey took over. Again it's only 32 teams to play for in the NFL. Washington is not the worst. 

Washington is handling those Sexual Misconduct Allegations fairly well. Admit to the Problem and bring Positive Change to it. They have done their Part in cleaning up the Past. New President, New Coach, New Culture, and the NFL is handling the investigation to make sure things are being taken care of properly.

The Browns without Dorsey would still be the Worst Place to play in the NFL as they were for many Years. They better start Winning though. 

 

Thanks for the input! I guess from my perspective, a FA could find a good coach, dline, QB/WR combo in many other places that did not have the issues i previously referenced. I really think  at the end of the day, the desire to play for WFT is what held back a lot of deals. But who really knows.... 

[turtle28]

25 minutes ago, Troublez said:

Thanks for the input! I guess from my perspective, a FA could find a good coach, dline, QB/WR combo in many other places that did not have the issues i previously referenced. I really think  at the end of the day, the desire to play for WFT is what held back a lot of deals. But who really knows.... 

Well it was that but also contracts or how the offers were structured. Rivera/Rob Rogers didn’t offer as much guaranteed $ as the Cowboys for Cooper & Browns for Hooper.

On defense some wanted Byron Jones we’ll be got the richest CB deal in NFL history and I wouldn’t say he’s much better than what Fuller can develop into and I definitely wouldn’t say that Jones has future Hall fo Fame written on him. 
 

So, like with Flowers good to great players but are they worth losing one of our DL in the future over or someone else?

Every free agent signing has cap repercussions down the line for your own drafted players on their 2nd contract.

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, Troublez said:

Thanks for the input! I guess from my perspective, a FA could find a good coach, dline, QB/WR combo in many other places that did not have the issues i previously referenced. I really think  at the end of the day, the desire to play for WFT is what held back a lot of deals. But who really knows.... 

Not many other teams have a coach who took his team to the Super Bowl and Won a Super Bowl himself. If I want A Super Bowl that's something that's gonna Up my Interest. 

Not yours? 

[MKnight82]

4 hours ago, offbyone said:

All we can go on is what we see.  What we have seen so far is tight purse strings and thereby no new talent.  There is no way around that and no way to rationalize it.  There is no such thing as an evaluation year in the nfl.  You don't take a year off in the nfl.

He took a big risk by not improving the talent this year.  If it works out, it will be luck, not cleverness. 

I disagree.  This is year 1 of his rebuild, there was no reason to blow all of our cap space in free agency before he was able to evaluate the talent we already have.  I also disagree we didn't add any new talent.  We got the most talented player in this draft class in Chase Young.  I think most people were happy with our draft class as a whole.  The entire class made the Final 53 btw.  

4 hours ago, offbyone said:

It is also foolish when it comes to cap management.  For instance, if Scherff ends up playing like he did when last healthy, he will be much more expensive now.  If those one year deal guys play well, same thing.  Oh wait we already cut them and lost that cap space.  The other issue is we have a young qb.  You need to race to improve the team and get long term contracts done before we need to pay the qb.  

Scherff has already made a few Pro Bowls, he's already going to demand a very expensive contract.  I think, given his injury history, it would have been more reckless to hand him a huge extension before he can prove he can stay healthy for a full season again.  As far as "racing" to fill the roster around our young QB, Haskins hasn't proven yet that he's capable of being a franchise QB. 

4 hours ago, offbyone said:

Maybe next year he plays catch up with the extra cap space and evens out the situation.  I do like Rivera and I am trying to be open minded and give him a bit of a pass, but I will not act as if he did a good job improving our talent as much as he could this year for the short term or the long term.  I expect the better coaching to bring us more wins, but there is a limit to what coaching can do.  

I think he's team building exactly the way he should.  He's trying to build a homegrown foundation of drafted players handpicked for his scheme.  Once we have a solid foundation then we can sprinkle in some talent additions in FA to bolster the roster to a contender.   

 

[offbyone]

55 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

I disagree.  This is year 1 of his rebuild, there was no reason to blow all of our cap space in free agency before he was able to evaluate the talent we already have.  I also disagree we didn't add any new talent.  We got the most talented player in this draft class in Chase Young.  I think most people were happy with our draft class as a whole.  The entire class made the Final 53 btw.  

I am not talking about the draft.  Bad teams limit themselves to one tool- either the draft or free agency.  There is no reason why we couldn't have improved this team more using free agency. 

Secondly, who said anything about "blow all of our cap space".  That is the extreme spending end of it.  We took the extreme frugal side of it.  There is room for a middle ground.   You can do so with a measured approach.  It would be one thing if we didn't have great needs.  But we do.  

This isn't rivera's first rodeo, it should be obvious that we needed help at certain spots.  We didn't need to fill all those spots at once and go get a top flight WR, a top TE and a couple elite olinemen.  But we could have gotten one of those players.   I don't know how you can objectively argue the other side.  Burning a season for evaluation is not a luxury we have in the nfl.  Roster turnover is constant.  You must constantly improve.  

1 hour ago, MKnight82 said:

Scherff has already made a few Pro Bowls, he's already going to demand a very expensive contract.  I think, given his injury history, it would have been more reckless to hand him a huge extension before he can prove he can stay healthy for a full season again. 

That is a fair argument and I could get on board with it if we spent some money elsewhere.  The problem is that after this season, we will not have a single high level olineman on the roster.

1 hour ago, MKnight82 said:

As far as "racing" to fill the roster around our young QB, Haskins hasn't proven yet that he's capable of being a franchise QB. 

Racing might have been too aggressive of a term.  But it is hard to argue against the idea of giving your qb the best chance to succeed.  Again, we didn't need to get a WR, TE and fix the oline, but we could have done just one of those things while still keeping flexibility in the cap for next year.  We didn't need to get cooper, but we could have got someone better than inman.  It just makes it hard to evaluate the offense when teams aren't scared of your players. 

What if McClaurin gets hurt?  We would have the worst WR group in the nfl.  It makes it hard to evaluate the team.  Even the running backs (who I think are decent) would be hard to evaluate because they will stack the box.

1 hour ago, MKnight82 said:

I think he's team building exactly the way he should.  He's trying to build a homegrown foundation of drafted players handpicked for his scheme.  Once we have a solid foundation then we can sprinkle in some talent additions in FA to bolster the roster to a contender.

I like the general approach you describe, I just don't know why you wait to sprinkle the talent in.  The talent helps the young players as well.   Not to mention even the best GMs draft busts.

It just seems like everyone is on one side or the other.  Nothing wrong with focusing on youth, but you can throw a couple elite players in without changing the build mode.  I just will never get on board with taking a year off.  You always try to win.  You always try to get better. 

I said it before, I am a fan of the Rivera hiring.  Being a redskins fan I am use to losing, so I can be patient for another year.  I just don't agree with this approach this year.  But that isn't going to make me give up on Rivera.

[MKnight82]

51 minutes ago, offbyone said:

I am not talking about the draft.  Bad teams limit themselves to one tool- either the draft or free agency.  There is no reason why we couldn't have improved this team more using free agency. 

I'm not disputing your point just the timing of it.  I think the plan was to see what we have in house.  

51 minutes ago, offbyone said:

Secondly, who said anything about "blow all of our cap space".  That is the extreme spending end of it.  We took the extreme frugal side of it.  There is room for a middle ground.   You can do so with a measured approach.  It would be one thing if we didn't have great needs.  But we do.  

Multiple factors come into play here.  The most optimal way to build a contender is to have everyone developing along the same timeframe (and on cheap contracts).  I think this is a multiple year rebuild.  In a few years when we are actually ready to contend any FAs we had signed would be A) too old to help us at that part and/or B) their cap holds could have ballooned to a very high level right at the time we're going to need to be re-signing some of our homegrown talent to extensions.  COVID also is a major component here.  We have no idea what is going to happen to the cap next year. 

51 minutes ago, offbyone said:

This isn't rivera's first rodeo, it should be obvious that we needed help at certain spots.  We didn't need to fill all those spots at once and go get a top flight WR, a top TE and a couple elite olinemen.  But we could have gotten one of those players.   I don't know how you can objectively argue the other side.  Burning a season for evaluation is not a luxury we have in the nfl.  Roster turnover is constant.  You must constantly improve.  

What if we had signed a top flight WR last year?  Would McLaurin have done what he had done without those snaps?  We have young draft picks that need snaps, some of them might surprise us.  I don't disagree with you about the TE spot.  We don't have anyone worth developing on the roster IMO, it was just unfortunately a bad draft for TEs.  I wasn't particularly thrilled with the TEs they brought in.  

51 minutes ago, offbyone said:

That is a fair argument and I could get on board with it if we spent some money elsewhere.  The problem is that after this season, we will not have a single high level olineman on the roster.

I'm hoping Geron Christian has a break out year.  If he doesn't, I like Charles' upside.  You're right that neither Roullier or Moses are elite.  I think Martin doesn't have a high ceiling either.  But we've never let Christian be the guy, and we spent a 3rd round pick on him.  Eventually we have to put him out there and see what we have.  

51 minutes ago, offbyone said:

Racing might have been too aggressive of a term.  But it is hard to argue against the idea of giving your qb the best chance to succeed.  Again, we didn't need to get a WR, TE and fix the oline, but we could have done just one of those things while still keeping flexibility in the cap for next year.  We didn't need to get cooper, but we could have got someone better than inman.  It just makes it hard to evaluate the offense when teams aren't scared of your players. 

What if McClaurin gets hurt?  We would have the worst WR group in the nfl.  It makes it hard to evaluate the team.  Even the running backs (who I think are decent) would be hard to evaluate because they will stack the box.

I don't agree with the opinion that Haskins needs to be coddled by signing a bunch of big time FAs (I'm not singling you out I've seen several people post this).  Great QBs elevate the other players around him.  If Haskins is a great QB he will jump off the screen no matter what.  The Browns went and got Baker Mayfield OBJ, Jarvis Landry, Njoku, Chubb and more last year and he still struggled at times.  I don't think having "weapons" makes that big of a difference in the development of a QB.  He either has it or doesn't.  And just for clarification, I do agree we need to upgrade our WRs and TEs, but we probably need to do it through the draft which will take several years.  

51 minutes ago, offbyone said:

I like the general approach you describe, I just don't know why you wait to sprinkle the talent in.  The talent helps the young players as well.   Not to mention even the best GMs draft busts.

I kind of described my thinking above, just to line up the contracts timing wise better.  Agreed that busts happen, I think we should be trying to acquire more draft picks to help with the rebuild, by trading guys like Ryan Kerrigan. 

51 minutes ago, offbyone said:

It just seems like everyone is on one side or the other.  Nothing wrong with focusing on youth, but you can throw a couple elite players in without changing the build mode.  I just will never get on board with taking a year off.  You always try to win.  You always try to get better. 

I said it before, I am a fan of the Rivera hiring.  Being a redskins fan I am use to losing, so I can be patient for another year.  I just don't agree with this approach this year.  But that isn't going to make me give up on Rivera.

I don't totally disagree with what you're saying, but the kind of guys that will sign with an organization in Year 1 in a rebuild are just chasing money.  Do we need guys like that?  

Edited September 10, 2020 by MKnight82

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, MKnight82 said:

I'm not disputing your point just the timing of it.  I think the plan was to see what we have in house.  

Multiple factors come into play here.  The most optimal way to build a contender is to have everyone developing along the same timeframe (and on cheap contracts).  I think this is a multiple year rebuild.  In a few years when we are actually ready to contend any FAs we had signed would be A) too old to help us at that part and/or B) their cap holds could have ballooned to a very high level right at the time we're going to need to be re-signing some of our homegrown talent to extensions.  COVID also is a major component here.  We have no idea what is going to happen to the cap next year. 

What if we had signed a top flight WR last year?  Would McLaurin have done what he had done without those snaps?  We have young draft picks that need snaps, some of them might surprise us.  I don't disagree with you about the TE spot.  We don't have anyone worth developing on the roster IMO, it was just unfortunately a bad draft for TEs.  I wasn't particularly thrilled with the TEs they brought in.  

I'm hoping Geron Christian has a break out year.  If he doesn't, I like Charles' upside.  You're right that neither Roullier or Moses are elite.  I think Martin doesn't have a high ceiling either.  But we've never let Christian be the guy, and we spent a 3rd round pick on him.  Eventually we have to put him out there and see what we have.  

I don't agree with the opinion that Haskins needs to be coddled by signing a bunch of big time FAs (I'm not singling you out I've seen several people post this).  Great QBs elevate the other players around him.  If Haskins is a great QB he will jump off the screen no matter what.  The Browns went and got Baker Mayfield OBJ, Jarvis Landry, Njoku, Chubb and more last year and he still struggled at times.  I don't think having "weapons" makes that big of a difference in the development of a QB.  He either has it or doesn't.  And just for clarification, I do agree we need to upgrade our WRs and TEs, but we probably need to do it through the draft which will take several years.  

I kind of described my thinking above, just to line up the contracts timing wise better.  Agreed that busts happen, I think we should be trying to acquire more draft picks to help with the rebuild, by trading guys like Ryan Kerrigan. 

I don't totally disagree with what you're saying, but the kind of guys that will sign with an organization in Year 1 in a rebuild are just chasing money.  Do we need guys like that?  

Your looking for Haskins to improve a bunch of no names, so did Mayfield prove he is a Bust or incapable of leading Elite Talent with Beckham having his worst season with Mayfield as his QB?

Are the Browns ready to replace Mayfield already after 2 seasons? 

They went into this season looking for a Coach to help the Young QB succeed. While also adding pieces to a offense that already had Beckham and Landry.