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Decker's New Contract

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36 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

That article... I need help. I read it, I'm confused, and my head now hurts.

He listed a total of nine LTs, showed that Backus was worse - statistically - than the other eight, then concluded that the numbers "prove that Backus is the worst starting LT in the NFL".

... huh?

First of all, he referenced two stats: "Sacks Allowed" and "Average Sacks Per Year". That's it? No consideration for their impact in the running game? Isn't that part of the LT position?

Secondly, lets look at the list of LTs he compared to Backus: Bryant McKinnie, Matt Light, David Diehl, Wayne Gandy, Flozell Adams, Orlando Pace, Chris Samuels and Walter Jones. That is a great, borderline elite list of LTs. Of course Backus isn't better than those players, even the "not elite but still very good" crowd: Backus wasn't borderline elite. He wasn't even "very good". Backus was a solid, dependable player on a bad team for a long time.

If we're ready to list Backus as the 9th best LT of that span, fantastic. I think that's too high, but that works for me.

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3 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

That article... I need help. I read it, I'm confused, and my head now hurts.

He listed a total of nine LTs, showed that Backus was worse - statistically - than the other eight, then concluded that the numbers "prove that Backus is the worst starting LT in the NFL".

... huh?

First of all, he referenced two stats: "Sacks Allowed" and "Average Sacks Per Year". That's it? No consideration for their impact in the running game? Isn't that part of the LT position?

Secondly, lets look at the list of LTs he compared to Backus: Bryant McKinnie, Matt Light, David Diehl, Wayne Gandy, Flozell Adams, Orlando Pace, Chris Samuels and Walter Jones. That is a great, borderline elite list of LTs. Of course Backus isn't better than those players, even the "not elite but still very good" crowd: Backus wasn't borderline elite. He wasn't even "very good". Backus was a solid, dependable player on a bad team for a long time.

If we're ready to list Backus as the 9th best LT of that span, fantastic. I think that's too high, but that works for me.

Don't blame me.. blame B/R/Google. 

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2 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

Don't blame me.. blame B/R/Google. 

I lift your blame.

I will never view B/R in the same way again. It's just an embarrassing argument.

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Just now, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I lift your blame.

I will never view B/R in the same way again. It's just an embarrassing argument.

There was a time when B/R was just Joe Schmoe's like you and I who would write articles. It could be one of those. It's hard to know what was quality content 11 years ago. 

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Just now, Karnage84 said:

There was a time when B/R was just Joe Schmoe's like you and I who would write articles. It could be one of those. It's hard to know what was quality content 11 years ago. 

I return the blame to you.

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Backus was never good. If you are a left tackle and the most generous assessment of your play is "solid player on a bad team," you don't get twelve years without being replaced. That is, unless your organization is historically inept and doesn't care about winning.

Decker still has time to improve and hopefully will team with Ragnow and Jonah Jackson to form a good unit. I just hope they didn't give him this contract because he's a swell guy with good leadership skills. That would be very very Lions of them.

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4 minutes ago, Superduperman said:

Backus was never good. If you are a left tackle and the most generous assessment of your play is "solid player on a bad team," you don't get twelve years without being replaced. That is, unless your organization is historically inept and doesn't care about winning.

Decker still has time to improve and hopefully will team with Ragnow and Jonah Jackson to form a good unit. I just hope they didn't give him this contract because he's a swell guy with good leadership skills. That would be very very Lions of them.

I mean, playing on a horrible team for a long time will often make you look worse than you are. Constantly being down forces a team to throw, which puts added pressure on a LT. Coupled with bad defenses, horrible QB play and a non-existent running game, it's no surprise that Backus wasn't 'good'.

He was definitely solid. On a bad team, that's not easy, and is often a sign that the player is better than he appears.

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1 minute ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I mean, playing on a horrible team for a long time will often make you look worse than you are. Constantly being down forces a team to throw, which puts added pressure on a LT. Coupled with bad defenses, horrible QB play and a non-existent running game, it's no surprise that Backus wasn't 'good'.

He was definitely solid. On a bad team, that's not easy, and is often a sign that the player is better than he appears.

Like as though he had nothing at all to do with the bad qb play and no run game.

He wasn't good.

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1 minute ago, Superduperman said:

Like as though he had nothing at all to do with the bad qb play and no run game.

He wasn't good.

Right. He was solid, with a terrible supporting cast on both sides of the ball.

I'm not saying he was good. I'm saying that he was solid, and that having a bad supporting cast can make a player look worse than he was.

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Side note:

"Decker’s average salary is $14.2 million annually, which makes him the eighth-highest paid left tackle in the league. Only Laremy Tunsil ($22 million), Anthony Castonzo ($16.5 million), Taylor Lewan ($16 million), Nate Solder ($15.5 million), D.J. Humphries ($14.6 million), Dion Dawkins ($14.6 million) and Jake Matthews ($14.5 million) will make more per year."

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12 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I mean, playing on a horrible team for a long time will often make you look worse than you are. Constantly being down forces a team to throw, which puts added pressure on a LT. Coupled with bad defenses, horrible QB play and a non-existent running game, it's no surprise that Backus wasn't 'good'.

He was definitely solid. On a bad team, that's not easy, and is often a sign that the player is better than he appears.

Joe Thomas is still a HOF LT with never being on a winning team.  Calvin and Barry showed their skill on bad teams.  Matt Stafford has shown his skill on a bad team.  Darius Slay did as well.  Just being on a bad team is not an excuse for average play.  Backus had some solid years.  Albeit that article was horrible, just the sack numbers alone are enough to replace him unless he was dominant in the run game which based on the fact we haven't had a 1k rusher since Barry leads me to believe he wasn't that either (plus memory of him just not being that great). He was ok, but thats about it, and for a long time we have settled for ok because thats what we draft and chose to resign.  Its just annoying and IMO a big part of the being stuck in the middle/bottom of the league for so long. 

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58 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Joe Thomas is still a HOF LT with never being on a winning team.  Calvin and Barry showed their skill on bad teams.  Matt Stafford has shown his skill on a bad team.  Darius Slay did as well.  Just being on a bad team is not an excuse for average play.  Backus had some solid years.  Albeit that article was horrible, just the sack numbers alone are enough to replace him unless he was dominant in the run game which based on the fact we haven't had a 1k rusher since Barry leads me to believe he wasn't that either (plus memory of him just not being that great). He was ok, but thats about it, and for a long time we have settled for ok because thats what we draft and chose to resign.  Its just annoying and IMO a big part of the being stuck in the middle/bottom of the league for so long. 

Yeah, but I think that's my point: Joe Thomas was an elite LT. Like, a crazy good player. He's a significantly better LT than Backus was. That doesn't make Backus bad by default.

Stafford isn't a great reference here. Many fans, to include Lions' fans, think he's average and isn't worth his contract, despite his clear ability. If Stafford played for a good team, he'd likely be a lock in the top 5-top 8 discussion.

Just sack numbers aren't enough. The article didn't even list the number of pass protections for each player. There's just so much missing from the list to draw any conclusions whatsoever.

I agree that settling for ok is a problem. I just don't think Backus was ever the issue. A slew of wasted picks and bad coaches are to blame, not a solid LT that played without talent on both sides of the ball, for a team that was often losing.

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