Kamara next year

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

To be fair, Portis was a square peg in a round hole, but even if he was in a different offense than the Coryell, he's probably not a Hall of Fame player.  Bailey is a first ballot guy who was at the top of the league at his position for over a decade.  

Even though Bailey didn't want to be here anymore, it's still one of the worst trades in NFL history, and one of the worst trades in all sports.  

Now, I can’t agree with that. We got a pro bowl running back out of the trade who was far better than what the Broncos Drafted with our 2nd round pick, Tatum Bell.

Clinton Portis was a pro bowl talent. There are some teams that trade for other teams stars and then what they get in return ends up being absolutely nothing of who they traded for busts for them.

The Donovan McNabb and RG3 trades were worse than the Champ Bailey/Portis trade.

[Woz]

On 9/4/2020 at 10:08 AM, turtle28 said:

Just saying, Tatum Bell was awful and in the end that’s who we are complaining about losing and at the same time Champ Bailey wasn’t going to re-sign here.

That assumes that Washington would have taken Tatum Bell. They could have easily taken Jake Grove. Would he have been the best in the world? No, probably not. But it would have helped the team in 2004 and not required the team to spend heavily to get Casey Rabach the following off season.

Even if there was no one worth picking there, you could have traded up or down on the day of the draft based on how things turned out. Maybe they could have jumped up to 20 to grab Vince Wilfork before the Patriots took him at 21? Stephen Jackson also would have made sense as he was "falling" and Dallas was eyeing him (or so everyone thought).

When you trade away a pick, it has more ramifications than what player was selected at that spot.

 

 

That all said, I'd probably pass on Kamara. Not that he isn't a good player (he is), but they have more needs and cannot afford to give up those young building block chips to chase the bright shiny thing.

[turtle28]

2 minutes ago, Woz said:

That assumes that Washington would have taken Tatum Bell. They could have easily taken Jake Grove. Would he have been the best in the world? No, probably not. But it would have helped the team in 2004 and not required the team to spend heavily to get Casey Rabach the following off season.

Even if there was no one worth picking there, you could have traded up or down on the day of the draft based on how things turned out. Maybe they could have jumped up to 20 to grab Vince Wilfork before the Patriots took him at 21? Stephen Jackson also would have made sense as he was "falling" and Dallas was eyeing him (or so everyone thought).

When you trade away a pick, it has more ramifications than what player was selected at that spot.

 

 

That all said, I'd probably pass on Kamara. Not that he isn't a good player (he is), but they have more needs and cannot afford to give up those young building block chips to chase the bright shiny thing.

Well I tried to point out that if you would swap the pick in as if we kept it and for that same player. Like Bell was the pick so assuming he’s the pick it’s not like that was worth anything.

All in All I loved Bailey, I hate that we lost him. At the same time getting Clinton Portis back in that trade was probably as best we could have hoped for, we’ve surely had worse trades as have other teams over the decades when they were forced to trade an All-Pro or Pro Bowl caliber player and ended up not getting much back in return or the players they got back or picks were busts. 
 

We also did well in replacing Bailey bc we signed Shawn Springs. I think I’d rather have Portis & Springs rather than just Champ Bailey.

[Woz]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

We also did well in replacing Bailey bc we signed Shawn Springs. I think I’d rather have Portis & Springs rather than just Champ Bailey.

Of course, by signing Springs, they spent more against the cap which pushed the team into cap hell a couple of years later. Having Bailey for another decade and ending his career in Washington would have been much preferable.

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, Woz said:

Of course, by signing Springs, they spent more against the cap which pushed the team into cap hell a couple of years later. Having Bailey for another decade and ending his career in Washington would have been much preferable.

They would have had to pay Bailey as much or more than they had to pay Springs.
 

What got them into cap hell was 2000 and the Lavernus Coles mess. Sure Springs was part of that, but again they would have had to pay the Bailey the same amount or more to keep him long term. So, signing Springs shouldn’t be seen as the sole reason we were in salary cap hell for most of the 2000s. 
 

Who’s our running back last decade if we don’t trade for Portis? Betts was ok, but Portis was a much better all around player. Portis & Springs > Betts & Bailey IMO.

Edited September 5, 2020 by turtle28

[Thaiphoon]

Kamara traded to Pats for:

RB Lamar Miller

Three 2021Draft Picks => A 1st, and 2x3rds

[turtle28]

5 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Kamara traded to Pats for:

RB Lamar Miller

Three 2021Draft Picks => A 1st, and 2x3rds

Of course! Haha 😂 

Saints are going to take a step back this year I think but they’re setting themselves up for the future with that trade.

That is a bad trade for the Patriots though IMO, giving up a starter & 2 possible starters in those 3rd round picks could hurt them down the line. They’re really going all in with Cam IMO.

Well, at least now this discussion can be every. Thankfully, I didn’t want to continue to have this conversation for the next year or two.

Edited September 6, 2020 by turtle28

[Thaiphoon]

5 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Of course! Haha 😂 

Saints are going to take a step back this year I think but they’re setting themselves up for the future with that trade.

That is a bad trade for the Patriots though IMO, giving up a starter & 2 possible starters in those 3rd round picks could hurt them down the line. They’re really going all in with Cam IMO.

From their standpoint they are basically a 2nd and two 4ths (since they usually draft near the end of the rounds). I think it was too steep as well. The problem they have is of course if they tank this year. They only have Cam on a one year rental IIRC. They will want to be in on Lawrence or another rookie QB in 2021. And without a 1st rounder, this marries them to Cam for the foreseeable future.

[Woz]

24 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

From their standpoint they are basically a 2nd and two 4ths (since they usually draft near the end of the rounds). I think it was too steep as well. The problem they have is of course if they tank this year. They only have Cam on a one year rental IIRC. They will want to be in on Lawrence or another rookie QB in 2021. And without a 1st rounder, this marries them to Cam for the foreseeable future.

When Tom Brady is at the helm. This might be one bridge too far in the Patriot arrogance.

[Woz]

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

They would have had to pay Bailey as much or more than they had to pay Springs.

And gotten Bailey for a decade as opposed to four years for Springs.

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

What got them into cap hell was 2000 and the Lavernus Coles mess. Sure Springs was part of that, but again they would have had to pay the Bailey the same amount or more to keep him long term. So, signing Springs shouldn’t be seen as the sole reason we were in salary cap hell for most of the 2000s. 

Yes, but the draft pick would have at least ameliorated that. They wouldn't have to spend on guys like Rabach and thus make the problems worse.

It wasn't the sole cause, but it was yet another thing that wasted the mid-to-late 2000s teams.

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Who’s our running back last decade if we don’t trade for Portis? Betts was ok, but Portis was a much better all around player. Portis & Springs > Betts & Bailey IMO.

I dunno. But RBs could have been had for cheap. Investing in the line with that pick and getting a decent center would have made your run of the mill UDFA RB decent in Gibbs' offense.

[Woz]

And yes I know, Bailey wasn't staying here no matter what, but I'm just saying if there was a chance they should have kept him.

[turtle28]

23 minutes ago, Woz said:

And yes I know, Bailey wasn't staying here no matter what, but I'm just saying if there was a chance they should have kept him.

Definitely, I would’ve kept Bailey 100%. I was not happy to see him go and it still bothers me he didn’t finish his career in Washington bc we would’ve had another pro bowler. That being said, with the trade we still made the best of a bad situation. 

[Thaiphoon]

37 minutes ago, Woz said:

When Tom Brady is at the helm. This might be one bridge too far in the Patriot arrogance.

Yup. Which is why I think it's too steep. And without a 2021 first rounder and those 3rd rounders, they have zero room to move up to get a QB. Which means they will probably re-sign Cam to a long term contract and ride him as long as they can.

[Skins212689]

People are talking about a trade that never happen! 

[turtle28]

I thank baby Jesus we didn’t mortgage our future on a trade like that. I want the top 10 pick next year when we can draft Sewell, Chase, Parsons, DeVonta Smith or Leatherwood to improve our OL, WR corps or D.