Bears at Lions - Week 1

[Nads786]

I think Robison is a very good WR but not at the level some of you are describing. He is basically a possession receiver and I don't think defenses are game planning against him on a regular basis. 

[Sugashane]

54 minutes ago, Nads786 said:

I think Robison is a very good WR but not at the level some of you are describing. He is basically a possession receiver and I don't think defenses are game planning against him on a regular basis. 

IDK. He had almost double the targets of any other WR so I imagine the know he is the bulk of the passing game. I think if he had a better QB we'd be talking a lot more about him as a top 10 WR in the league. He's not near a Hopkins, Thomas, etc but he is clearly one of the top guys IMO. 

[Karnage84]

Lions fan here. Congrats on your win. I have a feeling that we are both going to be experiencing a long season with our teams. It was interesting to read through the thread with the game in mind. Just a couple thoughts:

- Both teams looked like a real mess to start

- Trubisky did not look good for the bulk of that game. We lost Our #1 CB (Trufant), our #3 CB (Coleman) and were missing our #2 CB (Okudah). Trubisky could have just shaken off the rust and adjusted or he could have just picked apart our #4, #5 and #6 CB's. 

- Patterson looked really good as a runner

- When Stafford was let loose the offense was humming and we were able to move the ball. Then they became too conservative and let you guys get back into the game

It would not surprise me to see us going 0-4 into the bye week and with 2-3 wins at best by the trade deadline. 

[soulman]

On 9/14/2020 at 11:18 PM, JAF-N72EX said:

 I'll address this point more later on but I have gone back and watched the game. I'm waiting for them to release the all-22 (Tuesday or Wednesday) and then I'm gonna show how and why people saying that "Mitch was bad in the first 3 quarters" is absolutely false. 

I'm not saying Mitch was bad.  I'm just not giving "extra credit" for goal line passes he's expected to convert into scores.

I fully expected some timing issues and poor throws early on and I give him credit for sticking with the plan and getting himself on track with his receivers I'm just not giving him an A+ for the game is all.

[soulman]

On 9/15/2020 at 6:26 AM, dll2000 said:

The throw to Wims was a very good throw.  Very little space to make it.  Was not his first read.  Nice placement.  Led him.  Not sure why you are saying it was easy and wide open.  It was open, but he wasn’t just standing in end zone by himself and lots of things were happening.    

The throw to Miller was a great throw.   People keep talking about it being a 3rd stringer, but the kid was in perfect coverage.  Unfortunately for him perfect coverage doesn’t beat a perfect throw and catch.

The throw to Graham could be downplayed, but people mess those up all the time.

 

And I gave credit for the TD pass and catch to Miller.  One of the best longer passes I've seen Mitch throw.

As for the Wims TD yeah, it was a nice throw but ESPN was giving extra credit for a throw into a "tight window" based on a trailing defender who only caught up just as Wims caught the ball.  For Mitch it was a throw toward the back pylon leading Wims as he needed to.  It was an accurate low risk throw and the kind he should be able to make 10 times out of 10 from that same spot.  I'm not subtracting from it I'm just not adding to it.  He should always be able to connect on those throws.

Already covered what I saw on the TD to Graham so no sense doing a rinse and repeat.

[Karnage84]

8 hours ago, soulman said:

And I gave credit for the TD pass and catch to Miller.  One of the best longer passes I've seen Mitch throw.

As for the Wims TD yeah, it was a nice throw but ESPN was giving extra credit for a throw into a "tight window" based on a trailing defender who only caught up just as Wims caught the ball.  For Mitch it was a throw toward the back pylon leading Wims as he needed to.  It was an accurate low risk throw and the kind he should be able to make 10 times out of 10 from that same spot.  I'm not subtracting from it I'm just not adding to it.  He should always be able to connect on those throws.

Already covered what I saw on the TD to Graham so no sense doing a rinse and repeat.

That's because Detroit already let Graham score on a 'one-on-one' matchup after blowing a timeout to stop... a 'one-on-one' matchup with Graham. 

Like I said before, we were down to our #4, #5 and #6 CB's. You have to play against the competition in front of you and Mitch stepped up to the challenge. He happily took what the Lions gave away and did a lot of damage with it. Moving forward, the real question is going to be, which is the real Mitch in 2020? Is it Quarters 1-3 or the 4th Quarter Kid?

[BeaReylo]

Jaylon Johnson in his first NFL start

47 coverage snaps
6 targets
2 forced incompletions
0 TDs allowed

https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/ ... -bears%2F6

[JAF-N72EX]

23 hours ago, soulman said:

I'm not saying Mitch was bad.  I'm just not giving "extra credit" for goal line passes he's expected to convert into scores.

I fully expected some timing issues and poor throws early on and I give him credit for sticking with the plan and getting himself on track with his receivers I'm just not giving him an A+ for the game is all.

Yeah I wasn't saying that you said Mitch was bad.  I was talking about the people who think he did play bad 3 quarters. I was only saying that I will respond more into your post when I address them.

The NFL FINALLY released the all-22 tonight so I'll start doing a breakdown tomorrow. 

[JAF-N72EX]

15 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

That's because Detroit already let Graham score on a 'one-on-one' matchup after blowing a timeout to stop... a 'one-on-one' matchup with Graham. 

Like I said before, we were down to our #4, #5 and #6 CB's. You have to play against the competition in front of you and Mitch stepped up to the challenge. He happily took what the Lions gave away and did a lot of damage with it. Moving forward, the real question is going to be, which is the real Mitch in 2020? Is it Quarters 1-3 or the 4th Quarter Kid?

The problem with this argument is that 2 of those TD's(Graham+Miller) were so well timed and well placed in spots that even the best CB/DB would've had trouble defending them. The game winning TD to Miller speaks for itself. The defender played it as well as he could've. There are some plays where a defender can play it perfectly but still get it wrong. He could get beat by a good pass &/or good catch and that's exactly what happened. It didn't matter what player you had CB.....it was going to be a TD regardless. Those are called 'indefensible' plays. 

Now, putting a 6'0 corner on a 6'7 TE at the goalline in man-coverage is on the coaching. That made it way too easy. Nagy LOVES to run short stick/hitch/hook routes that put the WRs/TEs in better position to win those one on one matchups against smaller guys in man coverage and the Lions fell for the bait.

Those type of routes are about timing and the QB and WR/TE have to be on the same page. The QB has to release the ball at the exact time that the WR/TE is coming out there break and they have to be ready for it. Which is exactly what happened. Mitch through the ball behind Graham, just in case the timing was off,  because there was no way in hell a 6'0 DB was was going to stop Graham from getting to the ball. And if Graham's timing was off...incomplete pass. Live to play another down. 

[soulman]

19 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

That's because Detroit already let Graham score on a 'one-on-one' matchup after blowing a timeout to stop... a 'one-on-one' matchup with Graham. 

Like I said before, we were down to our #4, #5 and #6 CB's. You have to play against the competition in front of you and Mitch stepped up to the challenge. He happily took what the Lions gave away and did a lot of damage with it. Moving forward, the real question is going to be, which is the real Mitch in 2020? Is it Quarters 1-3 or the 4th Quarter Kid?

What you're posting kinda backs up what I posted which is that it was not a 100% well placed throw and despite what ESPN reported I'm simply not giving him extra credit for it.  As you point out Graham was covered by an inexperienced #4, #5, or #6 CB who misplayed his coverage, Graham, the vet, took advantage of that, and we got a TD.

But the only relevant point in all of what I posted was it was not a great throw and a far better defender may have broken it up or even picked it off.  That's it. 

 

[Karnage84]

10 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

The problem with this argument is that 2 of those TD's(Graham+Miller) were so well timed and well placed in spots that even the best CB/DB would've had trouble defending them. The game winning TD to Miller speaks for itself. The defender played it as well as he could've. There are some plays where a defender can play it perfectly but still get it wrong. He could get beat by a good pass &/or good catch and that's exactly what happened. It didn't matter what player you had CB.....it was going to be a TD regardless. Those are called 'indefensible' plays. 

Now, putting a 6'0 corner on a 6'7 TE at the goalline in man-coverage is on the coaching. That made it way too easy. Nagy LOVES to run short stick/hitch/hook routes that put the WRs/TEs in better position to win those one on one matchups against smaller guys in man coverage and the Lions fell for the bait.

Those type of routes are about timing and the QB and WR/TE have to be on the same page. The QB has to release the ball at the exact time that the WR/TE is coming out there break and they have to be ready for it. Which is exactly what happened. Mitch through the ball behind Graham, just in case the timing was off,  because there was no way in hell a 6'0 DB was was going to stop Graham from getting to the ball. And if Graham's timing was off...incomplete pass. Live to play another down. 

Graham vs Tracy Walker (6'1 S) - I don't have an issue with the matchup to some extent. Walker is supposed to be able to line up against a guy like Graham and compete. My issue, is 100% a Lions coaching one. They saw that matchup and took a timeout. Then Graham was lined up out wide one-on-one again with Graham and we had another DB (Harmon?, can't see the number) lined up just to the left of the uprights and they doubled Ginn (#19). That was just a real case of good coaching (Nagy) vs bad coaching (Patricia). 

Wims vs McRae (5'9, 5th CB): This is just another case of bad coaching (Patricia) vs good coaching (Nagy). Bears lined up with Cohen in the backfield and the Lions are set up to stop the run. I don't watch a lot of Bears football but Cohen does not strike me as a goal line back. Harmon is in the back of the end zone just shaded left to the uprights. McRae doesn't have the size or athleticism to catch up and it looks like Robinson likely would have forced a score against Oruwariye if he had been the target. 

Miller vs Oruwariye (6'2, 4th CB): This was just a nice catch on his part. That is the kind of throw that you guys were hoping to see him being able to make when he was drafted. 

[Karnage84]

7 hours ago, soulman said:

What you're posting kinda backs up what I posted which is that it was not a 100% well placed throw and despite what ESPN reported I'm simply not giving him extra credit for it.  As you point out Graham was covered by an inexperienced #4, #5, or #6 CB who misplayed his coverage, Graham, the vet, took advantage of that, and we got a TD.

But the only relevant point in all of what I posted was it was not a great throw and a far better defender may have broken it up or even picked it off.  That's it. 

 

He was matched up against Tracy Walker, when I look back on it. So I think what @JAF-N72EX had to say has a lot of merit. I blame that more on coaching and not doubling up on the athletic 6'7 guy who is lined up outside wide, especially after you just took a time out because of said matchup.

However, Trubisky did pick apart a defense that was down to the bottom tier of DB's and a defensive line that still struggles to generate a pass rush. Matching up with better teams who have a healthier back end might show that Trubisky is still the player (for good and for bad but more bad) that he appears to be. I don't know if this game answers the QB question for you guys. 

[soulman]

6 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

He was matched up against Tracy Walker, when I look back on it. So I think what @JAF-N72EX had to say has a lot of merit. I blame that more on coaching and not doubling up on the athletic 6'7 guy who is lined up outside wide, especially after you just took a time out because of said matchup.

However, Trubisky did pick apart a defense that was down to the bottom tier of DB's and a defensive line that still struggles to generate a pass rush. Matching up with better teams who have a healthier back end might show that Trubisky is still the player (for good and for bad but more bad) that he appears to be. I don't know if this game answers the QB question for you guys. 

It doesn't answer the QB question for me and me is all I will speak for.

And again I take nothing away from Mitch for rallying his team nor do I take anything away due to what team and players he was up against.  Any team in the NFL is capable of beating another if their opponent plays poorly or the breaks go their way.  A win is a win and the Bears stuck together 'til they got one.

My only point was two TDs came on throws Mitch and any other starting NFL QB should be able to convert on successfully so I don't see them as being overly amazing or difficult throws.  The final one to Miller however was a world class throw and catch and it was both timely and needed.  He gets extra credit for that one but not the other two.  That's simply my take and my scoring of it.  If others disagree that's their right.

[SLCbear]

pretty gross win  !  but I love being 1-0  !! we haven't been 1-0 since like 2013  !!!

I don't get all of the talk about how Mitch was awful for 3 quarters and then  turned it on in the 4th ... Mitch played a very solid first half  !! Idk what that was to Kmet inside the 5 in 2nd quarter   but it was one throw  in the first half of the very 1st game. He had 2 AWFUL throws in 4th !! missed Demetrius in back of endzone, and the throw inside the 5 to a WIDE OPEN monty where ball ends up being battes down by defenders wrists .... defender got off the ground very quickly and was heck of Defensive play but Monty was WIDE OPEN !!!!

Cordorelle was excellent

our running game is LEGIT .... it is a RB by committee and all three will run bw the tackles .... but all 3 can get out and do other things in space and receiving. All looked great in bw the tackles. 

CPs 4th down conversion was absolutely necessary or game was over   little Taric looked awesome !

Jaylen Johnson is already my favorite player  !! and will have him up on the avatar as soon as my Cs are eliminated or they win Title!

Mingo is GOOD  ! he is  all over the place making tackles  ! EXCELLENT excellent depth piece  !! Cannot wait to see Quinn

Miller was  !SENSATIONAL!!

ARobs catch in 3q iirc was #*!&×$  ridiculous  !

I will give the DLine another week where hopefully RQ is on #!*@ field  before I start calling for Dareus and Snaks  !! I hope that eddie sitting it out is not as bad as it seemed week 1 !! quinn will help alot  AND no preseason AND week1 ... 

coaching was very solid ... Nagy was patient and did very well 

Darnell Mooney looks electric  

Hicks looks like Hicks  !!

roquan and DT look like roquan and DT  !!

 

 

[Sugashane]

59 minutes ago, SLCbear said:

roquan and DT look like roquan and DT  !!

I agree with most of your post but Trevathan was the worst defender on the field last week. He might have a reason but he was a liability. Hopefully he gets back on track.