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How is Mike Mayock doing so far?

MrOaktown_56

By MrOaktown_56
in Las Vegas Raiders

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Darbsk

Darbsk

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Posted
1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

That's what we gave Cory Littleton $12M a year for. He should be able to step into the MLB role and lead the defense, play Morrow at WLB, and McMillian at SLB. 

Yeh, I would have thought Littleton would've been the obvious direct replacement for Kwiatkoski but Morrow is the green dot, maybe they think it's less disruption if they keep him at SLB and move Morrow into starter until McMillan us up to speed. Bad timing for us I guess.......

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Dessie

Dessie

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19 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Yeh, I would have thought Littleton would've been the obvious direct replacement for Kwiatkoski but Morrow is the green dot, maybe they think it's less disruption if they keep him at SLB and move Morrow into starter until McMillan us up to speed. Bad timing for us I guess.......

You don’t have to be a MLB to have the green dot, Morrows got it cos he probably knows the scheme better. 

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Darbsk

Darbsk

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16 minutes ago, Dessie said:

You don’t have to be a MLB to have the green dot, Morrows got it cos he probably knows the scheme better. 

Yep, I just thought maybe we'd move Littleton to MLB as he played ILB in the 3-4 for the Rams and played really well and continue with Morrow as the WLB but with McMillan as the SLB. I guess for continuity we kept Littleton at SLB and brought in Morrow at MLB and as you say he's got the green dot by virtue of knowing the system better I guess. 

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RaisinBran

RaisinBran

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I think he's done a good job aside from drafting Ferrell. Also getting AB... At first I thought the Mack trade was devestating but it seems to have been for the better. Ferrell was the only draft pick that was an obvious mistake at the time to me. We all knew we could've gotten a better player with that pick.

We just beat the Saints so we've gotta be doing something right. I've seen improvement in the team every year... we are competitive so the next step is to make the playoffs.

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Humble_Beast

Humble_Beast

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20 minutes ago, RaisinBran said:

I think he's done a good job aside from drafting Ferrell. Also getting AB... At first I thought the Mack trade was devestating but it seems to have been for the better. Ferrell was the only draft pick that was an obvious mistake at the time to me. We all knew we could've gotten a better player with that pick.

We just beat the Saints so we've gotta be doing something right. I've seen improvement in the team every year... we are competitive so the next step is to make the playoffs.

Wasn’t Mack trade all Gruden.... 

I give Mayock a C so far. I like his mid round picks(minus projects) and of course Jacobs and Abram. I’m not even mad at AB. I like those risky moves, AB is one of the greats and it was need. Worth a shot, should have made those picks conditional tho. 
 

- Ferrell - reach on need 

- Arnette - same as above and already 24. Of course dude should have dominated college. 
- kinda wish we did more then make the DL a strength 
 

 

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Trojan

Trojan

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I kind of wonder if a strict adherence to a 4-3 defense has kinda severely hampered Mayock. Like if we had someone at DC from the Patriots coaching tree that preached versatility if we could have rebuilt much faster. If you look at our players that have left from the DL you see Jelly and Jihad Ward as rotational reserves in Baltimore. You see Shelby Harris making plays in Denver and Mario Edwards still hanging on in Chicago. If we had some number of those types still on the roster we'd have at least the depth of the basis of a 3-4 defensive line and the free agency classes have had far more 3-4 Edges than 4-3. Perhaps the Joyner and Trent Brown contracts could have been what the Packers got in Smith and Smith, or Shaq Barrett, or probably 5 other solid 3-4 Edges in that FA class. Without looking at 2019 and thinking "oh man we need a 4-3 DE to be a leader" and seeing a relatively shallow class where Ferrell was the standout available, perhaps we could have opened options to more guys like Josh Allen, Devin White, Rashan Gary if you viewed him as better and a tweener between 3-4 DE and OLB and foundational of a more multiple look. In 2020 we spent (probably) too much on the one 4-3 DE in Nassib, whereas there were options like Calais Campbell on the cheap (compensation not salary) trade  that could have provided leadership or FA was loaded with 3-4 DL like Hargreave/Reader/AShawn Robinson/Brockers/etc.

If we made Joyner/Trent Brown money Smith and Smith, then traded for Campbell and signed like DJ Reader  while taking someone else over Ferrell and maintained our DL guys that were rotational and versatile, but not amazing fits we could have ended up with something like:

DE: Calais Campbell, Jihad Ward (Maurice Hurst? I feel like he's the one guy I'm least confident would have fit in a 3-4, probably still has rotation value in 4-3 looks though, just not sure where to list him)
NT: DJ Reader, Justin Ellis
DE: Rashan Gary, Mario Edwards, Denico Autry, PJ Hall
OLB: Preston Smith
ILB: Nick Kwiatkowski
ILB: Corey Littleton
OLB: Zadarius Smith
CB: Travyon Mullen
CB: Damon Arnette
FS: Erik Harris?
SS: Johnathan Abram


Retrospect and all it's not super helpful, but it at least looks possible to have a much quicker turn around if Mayock wouldn't be tied to a pretty strict 4-3 system and could draft, trade and sign for a multiple defense. The talent keeps being available for 3-4 guys (minus the year with Ferrell and there was a bunch of 4-3 DTs around Ferrell, but that still wasn't the direction we took).

Upcoming in 2021 we have some guys that are pretty easy cuts money wise to free up about 30-40mil even in a reduced cap year. If we dumped Guenther for someone more multiple we have a ton of options this upcoming year. Matt Judon, Melvin Ingram, and Shaq Barrett seem like the headlines of the edge FA class, and there is a bunch of rotational and depth options which would be appropriate to sign a handful of to transition. I think Maxx Crosby could make the switch too. A potential headliner and Raider fan in Leonard Williams could be the headliner of a multiple DL transformation and someone like Solomon Thomas might be available as a Gruden high draft pick reclamation type, ditto Malik Hooker if we believed in his injury prone-ness being unlucky instead of chronic.

~Trent Brown money into Leonard Williams/Shaq Barrett
~Lamarcus Joyner money into Melvin Ingram/Matt Judon
prove it deals to guys like Solomon Thomas/Malik Hooker

Who knows who is actually available I assume the list would be pretty great looking if Mayock was free to build the best talent possible and then hire a DC scheme diverse enough to take advantage of a maximized talent defense instead of a series of over-pays and reaches on talent to fit a limited scheme. 

Probably some very good veterans that will be available for trade due to cap restricting for lower than normal compensation trades (Zach Ertz would be an offensive option to make our offense Waller/Ertz with Ruggs stretching the field with Jacobs as the focus. That would be roughly Tyrell money. Dee Ford from SF or a host of others if you look at Over the Cap depending on how GMs are self evaluating. There has to be a deal available.

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NYRaider

NYRaider

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19 minutes ago, SimonGruber said:

We thought we just did this offseason can the team get out the contracts if they flop ?

It looks like we're stuck with Littleton until his contract is up after the 2022 season. But we can cut Kwit with 0 dead money after next year. 

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RaisinBran

RaisinBran

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3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

We just spent $18M in free agency on Littleton and Kwit, lol. 

Ugh I know lol. Littleton looks terrible though. Is he that much better than Lee was? Littleton has made minimal impact, if any aside from a couple tackles... he's consistently getting moved aside by OL... now is that all his fault? or our DL not having anyone to occupy two blockers... remember he had Donald in front of him which gave him more space to navigate. He has to work harder here to even make an impact.

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NYRaider

NYRaider

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5 minutes ago, RaisinBran said:

Ugh I know lol. Littleton looks terrible though. Is he that much better than Lee was? Littleton has made minimal impact, if any aside from a couple tackles... he's consistently getting moved aside by OL... now is that all his fault? or our DL not having anyone to occupy two blockers... remember he had Donald in front of him which gave him more space to navigate. He has to work harder here to even make an impact.

Yeah Littleton hasn't looked good this season but I'm not going to give up hope on him just yet. He's transitioning from playing as an ILB in a 3-4 to playing SLB in a 4-3. And our defensive line hasn't done him any favors to put it nicely. I also think there comes a point where you really have to ask how much of it is these guys aren't good and how much of it is Guenther's scheme? 

LaMarcus Joyner - Was coming off of the two best seasons of his career at FS and we force him to play SCB where he has been terrible despite bad safety play.

Cory Littleton - Was coming off of back to back Pro Bowl level seasons and has been our worst defensive player according to PFF. 

Maliek Collins - Was coming off of a career year and has been MIA through the first 3 games. 

Carl Nassib - Was coming off of back to back career years and has been MIA through the first 3 games. 

Rashan Melvin - Was coming off of a career year and had the worst season of his career in Guenther's scheme.

Why is that we've signed guys coming off of productive seasons, for defenses that were better than ours, in their prime and they all just seemingly fall off once they start playing for Guenther?

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