How is Mike Mayock doing so far?

[MrOaktown_56]

19 hours ago, big_palooka said:

What I saw he was as to be expected for a rookie on the Dline. He flashed some ability and you can see his potential to be an game changing talent. Other times, he looked like a rookie getting driven off the ball and engulfed by double teams. My guess is, he take a big jump in year 2.

This a cautionary tale however.... the fans who want to draft a 3t and expect big results early will be disappointed. iDL is one of the hardest positions for rookies unless you're Aaron Donald.

At this point, we will take any results from the defensive tackle position lmao

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

At this point, we will take any results from the defensive tackle position lmao

lol... fair point. The bar is pretty darn low.

[NYRaider]

10 hours ago, big_palooka said:

lol... fair point. The bar is pretty darn low.

Where's Tommy Kelly when we need him?

[Roninho]

Don't make me think back of those years with Terdell Sands stuffing anything but the run

[Jerry]

2 hours ago, Roninho said:

Don't make me think back of those years with Terdell Sands stuffing anything but the run

2 decades of mediocrity everywhere on the field.  I look back on some seasons and wonder how I ever could've believed we had a chance to field anything better than a 5 win team.  Just garbage everywhere.  Terrible FA signings.  Just disappointment after disappointment.  I wonder what I'll think when I look back on next years team.

[Geezy]

1 hour ago, Jerry said:

2 decades of mediocrity everywhere on the field.  I look back on some seasons and wonder how I ever could've believed we had a chance to field anything better than a 5 win team.  Just garbage everywhere.  Terrible FA signings.  Just disappointment after disappointment.  I wonder what I'll think when I look back on next years team.

this is facts!

 

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, Jerry said:

2 decades of mediocrity everywhere on the field.  I look back on some seasons and wonder how I ever could've believed we had a chance to field anything better than a 5 win team.  Just garbage everywhere.  Terrible FA signings.  Just disappointment after disappointment.  I wonder what I'll think when I look back on next years team.

It's seeing those beautiful uniforms with the drums and brass instruments blaring that will get you hyped every time no matter what the talent level is.

The Autumn Wind Raiders - YouTube

[Jerry]

26 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

It's seeing those beautiful uniforms with the drums and brass instruments blaring that will get you hyped every time no matter what the talent level is.

The Autumn Wind Raiders - YouTube

Like a hot ex-girlfriend man.  Just can't stop drunk texting her late at night.  Always end up back, regretting it later too lol.

[Humble_Beast]

3 hours ago, Jerry said:

Like a hot ex-girlfriend man.  Just can't stop drunk texting her late at night.  Always end up back, regretting it later too lol.

I know that feeling. reason I hate drunk texting... I prefer when a girl is the drunk one texting me lol 

[ronjon1990]

7 hours ago, Jerry said:

2 decades of mediocrity everywhere on the field.  I look back on some seasons and wonder how I ever could've believed we had a chance to field anything better than a 5 win team.  Just garbage everywhere.  Terrible FA signings.  Just disappointment after disappointment.  I wonder what I'll think when I look back on next years team.

Yup. 

We are masters at having terrible play replaced by backup level play and talking ourselves into believing it's starting level play. 

I used to be a roster junkie who knew every player on the team (and most teams, to be fair). I hardly keep track of our backups anymore because I've had to accept that there won't be a surprise guy who winds up being REALLY good. It's like we have 15 or so players with starting or backup quality play and then just a bunch of bodies to fill out a gameday roster. 

[Jerry]

14 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Yup. 

We are masters at having terrible play replaced by backup level play and talking ourselves into believing it's starting level play. 

I used to be a roster junkie who knew every player on the team (and most teams, to be fair). I hardly keep track of our backups anymore because I've had to accept that there won't be a surprise guy who winds up being REALLY good. It's like we have 15 or so players with starting or backup quality play and then just a bunch of bodies to fill out a gameday roster. 

I agree.  About 10 players that should definitely be starting and about 12 that are backups.  About 8 players on our defense should be backups this upcoming season.

[ronjon1990]

17 minutes ago, Jerry said:

I agree.  About 10 players that should definitely be starting and about 12 that are backups.  About 8 players on our defense should be backups this upcoming season.

Starters of one level or another:

Carr, Jacobs, Miller, Jackson, Hudson, Waller, Mullen, Kwit, Littleton?, and Renfrow are my 10. I think all would/could start on other teams in some way (ie: Renfrow would be most teams' WR3/slot starter). Not counting Ingold only because so few teams deploy a FB.

Good*(maybe a starter, we'll see), Ruggs, Moreau, Crosby, Ferrell, Nassib, Hurst, Abram, Arnette, Heath, Joyner, and Morrow are my 12 backups that played enough (guys like McMillan didn't play enough to earn a grade for me). And even then, if not for draft pedigree, I don't know that Abram and Arnette wouldn't be cut candidates tbh. Same goes for Joyner, but more from past solid play. 

Not a single other person on our team should feel safe about their position at all. None have produced enough to earn a benefit of the doubt over competition. Some might get close to that (Edwards, Robertson, Johnson, etc.), but they're hardly ones who should feel like they're a given tonnot be cut loose (even if they know they won't....yet). 

God that's ugly when you write it out and visualize a lineup 🤮

Edited February 12, 2021 by ronjon1990

[Jerry]

35 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Starters of one level or another:

Carr, Jacobs, Miller, Jackson, Hudson, Waller, Mullen, Kwit, Littleton?, and Renfrow are my 10. I think all would/could start on other teams in some way (ie: Renfrow would be most teams' WR3/slot starter). Not counting Ingold only because so few teams deploy a FB.

Good*(maybe a starter, we'll see), Ruggs, Moreau, Crosby, Ferrell, Nassib, Hurst, Abram, Arnette, Heath, Joyner, and Morrow are my 12 backups that played enough (guys like McMillan didn't play enough to earn a grade for me). And even then, if not for draft pedigree, I don't know that Abram and Arnette wouldn't be cut candidates tbh. Same goes for Joyner, but more from past solid play. 

Not a single other person on our team should feel safe about their position at all. None have produced enough to earn a benefit of the doubt over competition. Some might get close to that (Edwards, Robertson, Johnson, etc.), but they're hardly ones who should feel like they're a given tonnot be cut loose (even if they know they won't....yet). 

God that's ugly when you write it out and visualize a lineup 🤮

Moreau and Crosby are on the cusp for sure though IMO.  I think Crosby will be better once he comes back from injury.  Ruggs is clearly a gadget/role player that may not ever develop into a full-time/starter role.  Ferrell and Nassib are depth pieces.  Hurst for whatever reason hasn't transitioned into the NFL the way we were all hoping.  Abram and Arnette lack the experience and discipline and need a lot of work to ever become something.  They have the physical traits needed to succeed, but so does just about every other player that makes their way to the NFL.  Morrow is a good depth piece but I'd still prefer not to have to use him.  Joyner just need to go somewhere else.  

I agree with your assessment though that no other player should feel safe.  Booker is a low end #2, Richard was non-existent this season.  Our WRs are a pretty solid bunch.  Could always use more at WR but that is what every team probably believes.  Our DL outside of Crosby is complete trash IMO.  The LB spot has two good players that need better players around them.  Our DB spots all need to be addressed other than Mullen.  Mullen, Kwit, Littleton and Crosby are the only 4 average starters that we have.  We really need to add a bunch on defense.  Would be thoroughly disgusted if we didn't add more pieces to our defense.

[ronjon1990]

47 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Moreau and Crosby are on the cusp for sure though IMO.  I think Crosby will be better once he comes back from injury.  Ruggs is clearly a gadget/role player that may not ever develop into a full-time/starter role.  Ferrell and Nassib are depth pieces.  Hurst for whatever reason hasn't transitioned into the NFL the way we were all hoping.  Abram and Arnette lack the experience and discipline and need a lot of work to ever become something.  They have the physical traits needed to succeed, but so does just about every other player that makes their way to the NFL.  Morrow is a good depth piece but I'd still prefer not to have to use him.  Joyner just need to go somewhere else.  

I agree with your assessment though that no other player should feel safe.  Booker is a low end #2, Richard was non-existent this season.  Our WRs are a pretty solid bunch.  Could always use more at WR but that is what every team probably believes.  Our DL outside of Crosby is complete trash IMO.  The LB spot has two good players that need better players around them.  Our DB spots all need to be addressed other than Mullen.  Mullen, Kwit, Littleton and Crosby are the only 4 average starters that we have.  We really need to add a bunch on defense.  Would be thoroughly disgusted if we didn't add more pieces to our defense.

Definitely on Moreau and Crosby. They both embody what people simply "want" others to. What I mean is, a lot of people talk about "potential". "Well, Arnette has potential", for example. Based on what? Underwear Olympics? Crosby and Moreau are guys we've seen produce, so they have potential. Guys like Arnette or Abram or Ferrell have not really produced to a degree to say there's bankable potential.

Like you said, they have physical traits. Wooo, right? Physical traits really mean very little if they can't play at a pro level. Back in the day, pre-knee injuries and age, I made some snarky comment to a coworker that Julio Jones wasn't some absolutely unheard of freak mega athlete (boy...was I ever wrong lol). What I meant though, was that too much was being made of his physical traits and not his football ability. He responded with a challenge for me to go through combine drills. So I did. I played in high school and some JUCO, so I was still in pretty solid shape. My "combine" numbers were good enough to match up with a couple of guys who got drafted thw year before. I wanna say I ran like a 4.48, had something like a 9 1/2 ft broad jump, came in at like 6'2 and some change and somewhere in the range of 205. Now, it was nothing to write home about per se, but I proved my point- I'm no Julio Jones, either in terms of raw athleticism or football skills. In fact, I'm no Chaz Schillens. Maybe Seth Roberts? (I kid). But I, just a regular, fairly in shape guy at the time, could put up decent enough numbers in the Underwear Olympics. Physical traits are great, but without great football skills, you're not making it to the big schools, much less the pros. So you're right, everyone in the pros has those (except Ladarius Gunter. Whoever thought he was fast enough to play CB...you're a fool.) and they guarantee nothing. I'm glad someone else doesn't fawn over those and recognizes it for what it is. Crosby and Moreau have shown that there's something untapped, be it better play or even just consistent play at their current level. A lot of our guys just have lip service "potential" because we talk ourselves into them having something unseen. 

As for our D...yeah we've got to add a ton. Arnette, Abram, and Ferrell's play would have them benched by now if not for their status as recent 1st rounders. Maaaaybe not Ferrell, but he's pushing that limit. Unfortunately, like you said, even our "stars" are really pretty average. I think Mullen and Crosby might have a little more to tap before they peak, but neither Kwit nor Littleton project to be major difference makers unless the scheme change makes huge overall differences. Nice pieces, but probably not stars. The rest....yeah, hot garbage. Our long term plug-a-hole-and-pray method of fixing the D isn't cutting it. Like how we managed to totally ignore LB for almost a decade to the point of it being joked about even by commentary.

No player at all is ever a sure thing, but we've at least got to make the effort to use our resources on 2 D-linemen, a FS, and either a CB or LB just to supplement the few legit guys we have. If it doesn't work, at least we tried. I'll be happy as long as it isn't ignored. 

[MrOaktown_56]

4 hours ago, Jerry said:

Moreau and Crosby are on the cusp for sure though IMO.  I think Crosby will be better once he comes back from injury.  Ruggs is clearly a gadget/role player that may not ever develop into a full-time/starter role.  Ferrell and Nassib are depth pieces.  Hurst for whatever reason hasn't transitioned into the NFL the way we were all hoping.  Abram and Arnette lack the experience and discipline and need a lot of work to ever become something.  They have the physical traits needed to succeed, but so does just about every other player that makes their way to the NFL.  Morrow is a good depth piece but I'd still prefer not to have to use him.  Joyner just need to go somewhere else.  

I agree with your assessment though that no other player should feel safe.  Booker is a low end #2, Richard was non-existent this season.  Our WRs are a pretty solid bunch.  Could always use more at WR but that is what every team probably believes.  Our DL outside of Crosby is complete trash IMO.  The LB spot has two good players that need better players around them.  Our DB spots all need to be addressed other than Mullen.  Mullen, Kwit, Littleton and Crosby are the only 4 average starters that we have.  We really need to add a bunch on defense.  Would be thoroughly disgusted if we didn't add more pieces to our defense.

Yeah our LB are more than fine. Need better DL play and secondary play around them. 

Free safety was atrocious and the defense will transform if we can put a ++ player there. Ditto for DT. That's a given.

If we did nothing else but add a premium free safety (Maye for example) and trade for an established defensive tackle (say Johnathan Allen), I would bank on a big improvement on defense.